Understanding The Book of Revelation from a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint perspective

[surada]

And. they had already taken over Palestine and Jerusalem decades before the birth of Jesus, something else some here are ignorant of. What is now considered 'Judaism' was a 2nd century invention by Pharisees after the Bar Kokhba Revolt failed. They just made it a much racist and insular cult than it already was, with little to do with Moses' teachings.

You mean the transition from Temple Judaism to Rabbinic Judaism?

The spectrum of Judaism in the 1st century AD | Douglas Jacoby

The spectrum of Judaism in the 1st century AD | Douglas Jacoby

Most of the sects of first century Judaism have their roots in the intertestamental period. Every one casts light on the New Testament. In this article we will explore seven sects.

www.douglasjacoby.com

Jul 31, 2013 · The spectrum of Judaism in the 1st century AD. Most of the sects of first century Judaism have their roots in the intertestamental period.

Every one casts light on the New Testament. In this article we will explore seven sects. Pharisees. The Pharisees, the most important of the sects, were separatists. The Hebrew word from which the name is derived means separate.

 

[Esdraelon]

It is my personal belief that the sixth seal will end around 2033 or 2034.

So, you believe the current death-spiral of global violence, tensions, disease, corruption, and so on, will continue for another 12-13 years? I don't see that at all. I see global economic collapse either prior to or accompanying a global war in which millions die in a matter of weeks. Those seals proclaim each curse being released on the earth by a JUST God. If these cataclysms are delayed more than a few more years, I'll be amazed. Evil has been released on this world and very little restraint is left.

 

[Esdraelon]

Revelation was written to the seven churches of the 1st Century AD of things that would happen within a generation.

So, when was the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth?

 

[onefour1]

So, when was the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth?

Exactly! Surada believes that 1000 years of Christ's reign on the earth occurred within 40 years since John's revelation. Go figure.

 

[onefour1]

So, you believe the current death-spiral of global violence, tensions, disease, corruption, and so on, will continue for another 12-13 years? I don't see that at all. I see global economic collapse either prior to or accompanying a global war in which millions die in a matter of weeks. Those seals proclaim each curse being released on the earth by a JUST God. If these cataclysms are delayed more than a few more years, I'll be amazed. Evil has been released on this world and very little restraint is left.

Actually longer than 12-13 years. After the seventh seal opens there is silence in heaven for the space of half and hour and then the 7 last plagues will come upon the earth. The final plague will be when Jesus comes and destroys the wicked from off the earth.

 

[Esdraelon]

Regarding the revelation you speak of, are you referring to these verses in the Bible?

Luke 21:32​

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:34​

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:30​

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Why do you omit the list of "these things" that will be done before that generation passes?

That verse has a very specific context. He was detailing the events that would precede His return. It's a very long, detailed list of events that will occur and what He is saying is that the GENERATION that sees these things occurring, will not pass away before His return.

Here is the context:

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

So... I ask again -when did He return and rule for 1000 years?

 

[onefour1]

Why do you omit the list of "these things" that will be done before that generation passes?

That verse has a very specific context. He was detailing the events that would precede His return. It's a very long, detailed list of events that will occur and what He is saying is that the GENERATION that sees these things occurring, will not pass away before His return.

Here is the context:

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

So... I ask again -when did He return and rule for 1000 years?

I didn't omit them. See my post #18. I never said he already returned and ruled for 1000 years. I think you are mixing me up with Surada.

 

[norwegen]

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Already done. In AD 67, after the Zealots ambushed Cestius Gallus, the Roman governor of Syria in the Battle of Beth Heron, Vespasian received his commission from Nero and declared war on Judea. Rome's armies then surrounded Jerusalem.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Christians fled, and for three and a half years, lived in exile in Decapolis.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

You know that's in the present tense, right? Two thousand years ago, these be the days. . .

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Indeed, the distress was overwhelming. Apocalyptic, we might say. Disease, famine, the sword. When held hostage in a city with no means to buy and sell, bodies pile up in the streets. Per Josephus:

That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness that this was, from the beginning of the world. (Wars 5.10.5)​

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

A few might argue that the Gentile nations were the ten lost nations of the North, or the diaspora. Jesus equated Gentile with Roman (Lk 21:24), obviously pagan, i.e., foreign.

They trampled Jerusalem.

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Again, already done. The tribes of the once-great Abrahamic empire were shaken. The citadels of power suffered the fury of God's wrath. The islands fled and the mountains disappeared.

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Yep, in those days. Are you not a witness of the Parousia? It wasn't only for the benefit of ethnic Israel, you know.

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Luke identifies this lesson as a parable; hence, Jesus was talking about the kingdom. For a generation the fledgling heavenly kingdom on earth waited to bloom, and then when the great obstacle to that end, the Jewish theocracy, collapsed in AD 70, it began to do that very thing. In that year - in that generation - summertime had come.

 

[surada]

Exactly! Surada believes that 1000 years of Christ's reign on the earth occurred within 40 years since John's revelation. Go figure.

Too bad you missed it.

 

[surada]

Why do you omit the list of "these things" that will be done before that generation passes?

That verse has a very specific context. He was detailing the events that would precede His return. It's a very long, detailed list of events that will occur and what He is saying is that the GENERATION that sees these things occurring, will not pass away before His return.

Here is the context:

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

So... I ask again -when did He return and rule for 1000 years?

They were surrounded by foreign armies who fought under the command of Titus.The Christians did flee Jerusalem for the mountains... They fled to Pella and avoided the tribulation altogether.

 

[surada]

Already done. In AD 67, after the Zealots ambushed Cestius Gallus, the Roman governor of Syria in the Battle of Beth Heron, Vespasian received his commission from Nero and declared war on Judea. Rome's armies then surrounded Jerusalem.


Christians fled, and for three and a half years, lived in exile in Decapolis.


You know that's in the present tense, right? Two thousand years ago, these be the days. . .


Indeed, the distress was overwhelming. Apocalyptic, we might say. Disease, famine, the sword. When held hostage in a city with no means to buy and sell, bodies pile up in the streets. Per Josephus:

That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness that this was, from the beginning of the world. (Wars 5.10.5)​

A few might argue that the Gentile nations were the ten lost nations of the North, or the diaspora. Jesus equated Gentile with Roman (Lk 21:24), obviously pagan, i.e., foreign.

They trampled Jerusalem.


Again, already done. The tribes of the once-great Abrahamic empire were shaken. The citadels of power suffered the fury of God's wrath. The islands fled and the mountains disappeared.


Yep, in those days. Are you not a witness of the Parousia? It wasn't only for the benefit of ethnic Israel, you know.


Luke identifies this lesson as a parable; hence, Jesus was talking about the kingdom. For a generation the fledgling heavenly kingdom on earth waited to bloom, and then when the great obstacle to that end, the Jewish theocracy, collapsed in AD 70, it began to do that very thing. In that year - in that generation - summertime had come.

I don't think they have read the Bible.. Maybe they jud watch Hal Lindsey on TV.

 

[norwegen]

Too bad you missed it.

We all missed it.

Some say that thousand-year reign was in the forty years between the Cross and the Parousia, but of course the Satan was still prowling around in those years.

The Satan was incapacitated in the decades after the Great Revolt, rising up again in the bar Kokhba Revolt in the 130s. That's when I believe the thousand-year reign was.

 

[norwegen]

I don't think they have read the Bible.. Maybe they jud watch Hal Lindsey on TV.

They don't know history.

 

[surada]

They don't know history.

More to the point they say they don't need history or education because both come from Satan. See how they keep their cult in line?

 

[norwegen]

More to the point they say they don't need history or education because both come from Satan. See how they keep their cult in line?

It's funny how they'll read a biography of Beethoven in its historical and cultural contexts, or of the Incas or anyone else, but they'll pluck the Bible completely out of its contexts and place it in their own.

No wonder their conjecture and confusion.

 

[surada]

It's funny how they'll read a biography of Beethoven in its historical and cultural contexts, or of the Incas or anyone else, but they'll pluck the Bible completely out of its contexts and place it in their own.

No wonder their conjecture and confusion.

I doubt they read about Beethoven or the Incas either. They have real issues with education.

 

[surada]

That would be according to carbon 14 dating. To believe those dates you would have to believe that carbon 14 dating is accurate. I personally believe that carbon 14 dating has too many assumptions that are not true and too many shown problems.

They use multiple criteria to date any thing... Not just carbon.dating.

 

[surada]

Actually longer than 12-13 years. After the seventh seal opens there is silence in heaven for the space of half and hour and then the 7 last plagues will come upon the earth. The final plague will be when Jesus comes and destroys the wicked from off the earth.

That happened during the grape harvest in 70 AD. Remember Jerusalem was surrounded by foreign armies.

 

[JustAGuy1]

There's no future battle of Armageddon.

Interpreting Revelation: There is No Future Battle of Armageddon — A New Day Dawning

Did that get your attention?

www.anewdaydawning.com

Too funny you use a site that picks and chooses what it wants to believe based on fallen man' s reinterpretation. Crisco is a heretic in the same vein as Copeland.

 

[surada]

Sorry t

Too funny you use a site that picks and chooses what it wants to believe based on fallen man' s reinterpretation. Crisco is a heretic in the same vein as Copeland.

Sorry to disappoint you. John wasn't writing to the 21st century. He was writing to the seven churches of the first century. That's what he said. You think he was a liar?