To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

[danielpalos]

We could task the US Geological survey with discovering all the underground infrastructure. Ground penetrating radar technology firms can use a boost during the pandemic.

 

[marvin martian]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

That's interesting. I don't know anything about the water pipes in old houses (or new ones or in general).

maybe I'm missing something,, but lead pipes would crush if you buried them and burst if you put them under the pressure water is put under,,

So, is the article misleading then? The author probably doesn't know a lot about pipes either so I am not saying it is lintentionally misleading. Maybe misinformed is closer to what I am looking for.

Usually when talking about "lead pipes", it's actually the solder used to join pipes that contains the lead, as well as some lead containing fittings. The pipes themselves are usually iron or brass if they are very old, but lead is in all the joints, and it is very dangerous.

This is an admirable undertaking, but I have no doubt the Biden administration will fuck it up beyond all recognition.

 

[danielpalos]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

That's interesting. I don't know anything about the water pipes in old houses (or new ones or in general).

maybe I'm missing something,, but lead pipes would crush if you buried them and burst if you put them under the pressure water is put under,,

So, is the article misleading then? The author probably doesn't know a lot about pipes either so I am not saying it is lintentionally misleading. Maybe misinformed is closer to what I am looking for.

Usually when talking about "lead pipes", it's actually the solder used to join pipes that contains the lead, as well as some lead containing fittings. The pipes themselves are usually iron or brass if they are very old, but lead is in all the joints, and it is very dangerous.

This is an admirable undertaking, but I have no doubt the Biden administration will fuck it up beyond all recognition.

Why is that, when he could simply delegate that task to the department that specializes in that type of stuff anyway?

 

[BluesLegend]

In really old houses water mains are cast iron with lead solder.

In really new houses water pipes are copper with lead solder. I think lead in water is mostly an excuse for Dem PORK. If Dems want to accomplish something for the environment they should fix their broke ass sewage systems in their cities and stop spilling hundreds of millions of gallons of raw untreated sewage into public rivers and oceans.

WRONG!!!

new houses get mostly pex and very few get copper and those that do are required to use leadfree solder,,,

Houses built up to 1998 still contained lead in the copper pipe solder.

Really? Who knew?

Why are you always so eager to prove your ignorance on virtually any topic?

The 1950s
Use of lead pipes mostly stopped in the 1950s. Most cities replace lead pipes they find when they are replacing water mains. Homeowners are typically responsible for replacing lead pipes from the shut-off to their home.


1986
How Old Is the Plumbing in Your Home? Solder connects pipes in household plumbing. In 1986, the U.S. mandated a lead-free solder for plumbing, so the age of your house and knowledge of when the plumbing was installed can help you. If your house was built before 1986, your plumbing may have lead solder.

You are sadly ignorant, it wasn't mandated in the clean water act until 1998 and your reading comprehension is 1st grade level.

 

[marvin martian]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

That's interesting. I don't know anything about the water pipes in old houses (or new ones or in general).

maybe I'm missing something,, but lead pipes would crush if you buried them and burst if you put them under the pressure water is put under,,

So, is the article misleading then? The author probably doesn't know a lot about pipes either so I am not saying it is lintentionally misleading. Maybe misinformed is closer to what I am looking for.

Usually when talking about "lead pipes", it's actually the solder used to join pipes that contains the lead, as well as some lead containing fittings. The pipes themselves are usually iron or brass if they are very old, but lead is in all the joints, and it is very dangerous.

This is an admirable undertaking, but I have no doubt the Biden administration will fuck it up beyond all recognition.

Why is that, when he could simply delegate that task to the department that specializes in that type of stuff anyway?

Which "department" would that be?

 

[danielpalos]

See post #221

 

[marvin martian]

See post #221

The USGS doesn't do residential plumbing.

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

That's interesting. I don't know anything about the water pipes in old houses (or new ones or in general).

maybe I'm missing something,, but lead pipes would crush if you buried them and burst if you put them under the pressure water is put under,,

Wrong.
I run into lead pipes all the time in any house before 1920 or so.
They do not crush because they are round and thick walled, and they have thick enough walls so they do not burst under pressure. In fact, they tend to be like 2" in diameter, because they were designed for a lower pressure water system. But they work fine under modern pressures, and almost a third of the country likely is using lead pipes somewhere in the flow.
However, with cold normal water, no lead dissolves into the water.
The only times there is lead risk from pipes is when water is hot, overly acidic, or had been sitting stagnant for a long time.
And extreme case is where the ancient Romans used to use lead pots to boil wine down into a thicker liqueur used as a sweetener, like defrutum or sapa. That pretty much ensures lead poisonings.
There are no pipes that are perfectly safe.
Copper, zinc galvanized, plastic, etc. all release some amounts of toxic chemicals.

 

[danielpalos]

See post #221

The USGS doesn't do residential plumbing.

So what. Geological surveys is.

 

[Rigby5]

Yes Americans, lead has been used for pressure water piping.
And yes, it can withstand pressure required in a water supply system.

Pb. as in plumbing!

This is another one that can stand alongside the American bullshit of the Covid vaccines killing people.

America can't possibly compete with China if this sort of demonstration of ignorance is not stopped!

you didnt give an accurate rant,,

they are iron and lead combos,,, not just lead,,

No, the cast iron pipe with lead just in the joints are only used for waste water.
Cast iron is neve used for supply lines.
But pure lead was the main choice for cold water supply lines before 1920 or so,

 

[progressive hunter]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

That's interesting. I don't know anything about the water pipes in old houses (or new ones or in general).

maybe I'm missing something,, but lead pipes would crush if you buried them and burst if you put them under the pressure water is put under,,

Wrong.
I run into lead pipes all the time in any house before 1920 or so.
They do not crush because they are round and thick walled, and they have thick enough walls so they do not burst under pressure. In fact, they tend to be like 2" in diameter, because they were designed for a lower pressure water system. But they work fine under modern pressures, and almost a third of the country likely is using lead pipes somewhere in the flow.
However, with cold normal water, no lead dissolves into the water.
The only times there is lead risk from pipes is when water is hot, overly acidic, or had been sitting stagnant for a long time.
And extreme case is where the ancient Romans used to use lead pots to boil wine down into a thicker liqueur used as a sweetener, like defrutum or sapa. That pretty much ensures lead poisonings.
There are no pipes that are perfectly safe.
Copper, zinc galvanized, plastic, etc. all release some amounts of toxic chemicals.

thats funny cause I have spent the last 45 yrs working on mostly old houses and several pre 1900 and lived 47 yrs of my life in houses older than 1912 and have never once seen lead pipes in supply lines,, only drain lines,,

now I do have in my possession several lead pipes and they will crush easily if I just lean on them to hard.. let alone bury them,,

so with that I call bullshit,,,
steel pipes have been readily available since well before 1900,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes Americans, lead has been used for pressure water piping.
And yes, it can withstand pressure required in a water supply system.

Pb. as in plumbing!

This is another one that can stand alongside the American bullshit of the Covid vaccines killing people.

America can't possibly compete with China if this sort of demonstration of ignorance is not stopped!

you didnt give an accurate rant,,

they are iron and lead combos,,, not just lead,,

No, the cast iron pipe with lead just in the joints are only used for waste water.
Cast iron is neve used for supply lines.
But pure lead was the main choice for cold water supply lines before 1920 or so,

according to the sources I found on this issue is that they used some type of cast iron lead hybrid,, I dont know what that looks like or how it works due to the differences in melting temps for each,, but thats what I've found,,

 

[Rigby5]

Stay on topic, man.

I'm here on this topic mostly to show that Americans are choosing self-destructive policies for political purposes, while they should be coming together to choose science and progress in order to compete with the world's leading democracies. (and China)

That's why I suggested that this ridiculous discussion on lead water pipes can be stood right alongside of the ignorant nonsense of rejecting Covid vaccines.

You get the rational side of a discussion from non-Americans, whether you like and appreciate it or not!

Incorrect.
The rest of the world did about the same thing on covid and it was just as ignorant.
Flattening the curve is always a bad idea with any epidemic.
Quarantine is good because it is fast at ending an epidemic, but flattening the curve does not work because it does not include contact tracing, so it can't ever end any epidemic.

Vaccines for covid likely are not a good idea.
They will increase immune system over responses, like allergic reactions.
And covid is not endemic to humans, so can not likely ever return.

 

[BluesLegend]

In really new houses water pipes are copper with lead solder. I think lead in water is mostly an excuse for Dem PORK. If Dems want to accomplish something for the environment they should fix their broke ass sewage systems in their cities and stop spilling hundreds of millions of gallons of raw untreated sewage into public rivers and oceans.

I haven't seen a new house with copper (or any metal) pipes in a long time...it's all PVC or PEX and has been for years.

They still use copper, it's just more expensive and lasts longer.

 

[Rigby5]

There certainly isn't an justification for spending 111 billion on it.

It could be a ruse to enable Biden to throw a lot of money at a non-existing problem, and then spend the money on one of the real problems.

As a Canadian, and speaking from a position that works for social spending, I would suggest Biden get all the money he can get, real causes or not, and then spend it as quickly as he can.

The American people are desperate for a way out of the poverty that's been forced on them by the very wealthy and they've already risen up against government on Jan. 6th. Albeit in a mostly comical way as revolution standards go. There will be a next time if Biden or Trump doesn't fix things soon.

Government welfare programs are not a way out of poverty. I'm not surprised that you support Biden fleecing the taxpayers. That is the whole reason for the existence of the Democrat party.

Depends.
Some investments have a greater pay off than cost, so are worth it.
Example are Hoover dam, the St. Lawrence Seaway, TVA, etc.
I would love rural broadband myself.
When government does pump priming borrowing and spending, it can enrich consumers and boost the whole economy, making the initial borrowing small in comparison, due to inflation.
So it depends on if well researched and executed.

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

 

[progressive hunter]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

thats not what I read in the sources I found and posted,,

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

Simple. Replace every pipe that was installed before a certain date. When lead was no longer used in the production of pipes or in the solder connections.

Impractical.
Pipes are put in before streets, buildings, etc. are constructed.
Nor are there still records.
You would have to totally retrench over 10' down every single street and private property.
Nor any need in most cases.
Lead pipe does not normally cause any lead to get into the water.
It is only bad when water is hot, acidic, or stagnant.

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

I could be wrong but aren’t they mostly in old farm houses ( if any left in today time ) or small communities that never replaced their pipes?

Again I could be wrong and I know there was a big push in the 1970’s to update the systems across the country...

The Lead Map

CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE FULL MAP Presenting SimpleLab’s new 'Lead Map', designed to help you assess the risk of lead and other heavy metals in your drinking water Is There Lead Where You Live? This map will be most relevant to people living in smaller towns with small water systems that get their...

mytapscore.com

these are city water lines not the ones going into the homes,,

They both city and private cold water supply lines are lead before 1920 or so.

 

[progressive hunter]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

Simple. Replace every pipe that was installed before a certain date. When lead was no longer used in the production of pipes or in the solder connections.

Impractical.
Pipes are put in before streets, buildings, etc. are constructed.
Nor are there still records.
You would have to totally retrench over 10' down every single street and private property.
Nor any need in most cases.
Lead pipe does not normally cause any lead to get into the water.
It is only bad when water is hot, acidic, or stagnant.

in this case they say the new water source they started using had a high chlorine content and cause the breakdown of the liner and allowed lead into the water,,