To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

[progressive hunter]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

I could be wrong but aren’t they mostly in old farm houses ( if any left in today time ) or small communities that never replaced their pipes?

Again I could be wrong and I know there was a big push in the 1970’s to update the systems across the country...

The Lead Map

CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE FULL MAP Presenting SimpleLab’s new 'Lead Map', designed to help you assess the risk of lead and other heavy metals in your drinking water Is There Lead Where You Live? This map will be most relevant to people living in smaller towns with small water systems that get their...

mytapscore.com

these are city water lines not the ones going into the homes,,

They both city and private cold water supply lines are lead before 1920 or so.

I cant speak for what was used in the mainlines,,

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

thats not what I read in the sources I found and posted,,

Then the sources you read and posted are wrong.
The pipes Flint used to use were originally fine even though lead.
The reason they went away from the lead pipes had nothing to do with the lead, since Detroit water would also likely use lead pipes.
The problem is that the pipes had been unused for 50 years and full of stagnant corrosion.
If properly flushed out, they would have been fine.
Lead pipes are not good idea, but they also are not terrible.
They are acceptable unless the water is very acidic for some reason.
And Midwest water is slightly alkaline instead.

 

[progressive hunter]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

thats not what I read in the sources I found and posted,,

Then the sources you read and posted are wrong.
The pipes Flint used to use were originally fine even though lead.
The reason they went away from the lead pipes had nothing to do with the lead, since Detroit water would also likely use lead pipes.
The problem is that the pipes had been unused for 50 years and full of stagnant corrosion.
If properly flushed out, they would have been fine.
Lead pipes are not good idea, but they also are not terrible.
They are acceptable unless the water is very acidic for some reason.
And Midwest water is slightly alkaline instead.

and who are you exactly to claim them wrong???

so far youre a nameless faceless voice on an anonymous chat forum,,,

 

[OldFlame]

Why is this in Politics?

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

Simple. Replace every pipe that was installed before a certain date. When lead was no longer used in the production of pipes or in the solder connections.

Impractical.
Pipes are put in before streets, buildings, etc. are constructed.
Nor are there still records.
You would have to totally retrench over 10' down every single street and private property.
Nor any need in most cases.
Lead pipe does not normally cause any lead to get into the water.
It is only bad when water is hot, acidic, or stagnant.

in this case they say the new water source they started using had a high chlorine content and cause the breakdown of the liner and allowed lead into the water,,

Chlorine is highly toxic, much more so than lead, and should never really be used.
Floride is bad enough, but that is in very tiny amounts.
But it was NOT the piping that was at all any part of the problem.
When they got water from Detroit, it also had SOME chlorine.
It was the increase of choline and other things that caused the problem.
And clearly when you see dark water, that is sediment from old pipes or systems that had not been used on a long time.

{...
Flint isn’t the only city susceptible to these problems. The pipes in its old distribution system had seen the same water for decades. Switching water supplies in 2014 changed the chemistry of the water flowing through those pipes. When a switch like this happens, the water system is going to move toward a new equilibrium, says Daniel Giammar, an environmental engineer at Washington University in St. Louis. “It could be catastrophic as it was in Flint, or it could be a small change.”
Before 2014, Flint was getting its water from the Detroit Water & Sewerage Department, which would draw water from Lake Huron and then treat it before sending it to Flint. Looking to lower the city’s water costs, Flint officials decided in 2013 to instead take water from the Karegnondi Water Authority, which was building its own pipeline from the lake. Shortly after that, Detroit told Flint it would terminate their original long-term water agreement within a year and offered to negotiate a new, short-term agreement. Flint declined the offer. As an interim solution, while waiting for the new pipeline to be finished, Flint began taking water from the Flint River and treating it at the city’s own plant.
...}

A new equilibrium would be reached in a short time, so then water should have returned to being safe in Flint, without any lead pipe removal.

 

[Donald H]

It could be a ruse to enable Biden to throw a lot of money at a non-existing problem, and then

Depends.
Some investments have a greater pay off than cost, so are worth it.
Example are Hoover dam, the St. Lawrence Seaway, TVA, etc.
I would love rural broadband myself.
When government does pump priming borrowing and spending, it can enrich consumers and boost the whole economy, making the initial borrowing small in comparison, due to inflation.
So it depends on if well researched and executed.

If you're attempting to address any of my comments, you should know that I left this discussion because it's a portrayal of the same sort of ignorance that is being displayed by Americans on the Covid vaccine.

As a catch-all reply though, I consider your comments to be nuanced enough to serve for further discussion. The reason being, the US is too far behind already for thinking of piecemeal fixes. My opinion is that it's going to take huge spending and the inherent risks attached.

Americans are angry and the attack against government is at least a symbolic effort to bring down bad government. There is risk of it growing into something that is more than just a symbolic joke.

Biden must succeed this time in breaking the country away from the 'American way', which is inequality and the hold the very wealthy has on the ordinary people.

Don't forget, the Jan.6th. riot was against government, not just one side of governemnt.

If Biden doesn't succeed then Trump is going to be back offering his solution to the problems in America. That will be a fascist bid for power.

And then no solution to the problem, because that would be contrary to a fascist agenda.

Have Americans matured enough yet to just leave the Trump experience in the dust, as a horrible experience? I think there are several indications now that would be true!

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

thats not what I read in the sources I found and posted,,

Then the sources you read and posted are wrong.
The pipes Flint used to use were originally fine even though lead.
The reason they went away from the lead pipes had nothing to do with the lead, since Detroit water would also likely use lead pipes.
The problem is that the pipes had been unused for 50 years and full of stagnant corrosion.
If properly flushed out, they would have been fine.
Lead pipes are not good idea, but they also are not terrible.
They are acceptable unless the water is very acidic for some reason.
And Midwest water is slightly alkaline instead.

and who are you exactly to claim them wrong???

so far youre a nameless faceless voice on an anonymous chat forum,,,

It is easy for anyone to see that any source claiming lead pipes to be a problem have to be wrong because Flint originally was getting its water from the Flint river and was using all the same pipes before they switched to Detroit water 50 years ago. If a system was tested and safe 50 years ago, then it has to be a transient that is causing the recent problem.
And everyone should understand that a system that had been unused for 50 years, such as the Flint River water supply, should need to be flushed out.
Flint river water should not have had more chlorine than Detroit water.

 

[Rigby5]

Why is this in Politics?

Because make work projects are ways of manipulating tax revenue to benefit political allies.
So should always be suspect.

 

[Dragonlady]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

I'm well aware of what happened in Flint. You left out a few essential things, but that is the gist of what happened.

The science simply does not support your theory that the lead isn't harmful. Lead pipes wouldn't have been banned if they weren't an ongoing problem. Even worse, the lead builds up in the bodily tissues, so the longer you drink water from lead pipes, the greater the exposure and the risk:

Lead in the water: Tens of thousands of Canadian households still have toxic pipes

You may not know whether your water comes from lead pipes. Your city may not know, either. But you're on the hook for the cost of replacing those toxic pipes even if the city's underground operations put your drinking water more at risk.

globalnews.ca

.

Basic Information about Lead in Drinking Water | US EPA

Questions and answers about lead in drinking water -- health effects, EPA regulations etc.

www.epa.gov

With more than 10 million homes in the USA still getting their water through lead pipes, this is work that needs to be done.

 

[Donald H]

Why is this in Politics?

Because it's 'politics'.

The Trump/right agenda is to leave the lead pipes in the ground and let the people drink it up.

The Biden/left agenda is to dig it up and/or replace it so that the people effected can have clean and safe drinking water.

The 'correct' decision is being debated and hopefully it will continue to be debated until the chickens come home!

And so other than the effect on the chickens, it makes about as much sense as debating whether or not to be vaccinated against Covid. Which is btw, another flock of lost chickens!

 

[bripat9643]

There certainly isn't an justification for spending 111 billion on it.

It could be a ruse to enable Biden to throw a lot of money at a non-existing problem, and then spend the money on one of the real problems.

As a Canadian, and speaking from a position that works for social spending, I would suggest Biden get all the money he can get, real causes or not, and then spend it as quickly as he can.

The American people are desperate for a way out of the poverty that's been forced on them by the very wealthy and they've already risen up against government on Jan. 6th. Albeit in a mostly comical way as revolution standards go. There will be a next time if Biden or Trump doesn't fix things soon.

Government welfare programs are not a way out of poverty. I'm not surprised that you support Biden fleecing the taxpayers. That is the whole reason for the existence of the Democrat party.

Depends.
Some investments have a greater pay off than cost, so are worth it.
Example are Hoover dam, the St. Lawrence Seaway, TVA, etc.
I would love rural broadband myself.
When government does pump priming borrowing and spending, it can enrich consumers and boost the whole economy, making the initial borrowing small in comparison, due to inflation.
So it depends on if well researched and executed.

95% of Biden's infrastructure bill is pure welfare. It doesn't have any such payoff.

 

[Markle]

We could task the US Geological survey with discovering all the underground infrastructure. Ground penetrating radar technology firms can use a boost during the pandemic.

 

[Markle]

Why is that, [Biden will foul up a program to eliminate lead in water systems] when he [Biden] could simply delegate that task to the department that specializes in that type of stuff anyway?

Yeah, about that. Joe Biden appointed Kamala Harris to head up solving the catastrophe Biden has caused on our Southern Border.

How's that working out?

 

[Markle]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

You are obviously ignorant about the situation in Flint. You confirm that with your ending comment, "Once flushed out, it likely went away".

Let me help bring you up to date.

The Flint water crisis was a public health crisis that started in 2014 and lasted until 2019,[2] after the drinking water for the city of Flint, Michigan was contaminated with lead and possibly Legionella bacteria.[1] In April 2014, during a budget crisis, Flint changed its water source from treated Detroit Water and Sewerage Department water (sourced from Lake Huron and the Detroit River) to the Flint River. Residents complained about the taste, smell, and appearance of the water. Officials failed to apply corrosion inhibitors to the water, which resulted in lead from aging pipes leaching into the water supply, exposing around 100,000 residents to elevated lead levels.[7] A pair of scientific studies confirmed that lead contamination was present in the water supply.[8][9] The city switched back to the Detroit water system on October 16, 2015.[10] It later signed a 30-year contract with the new Great Lakes Water Authority (GLWA) on November 22, 2017.[11]

 

[Markle]

Yes Americans, lead has been used for pressure water piping.
And yes, it can withstand pressure required in a water supply system.

Pb. as in plumbing!

This is another one that can stand alongside the American bullshit of the Covid vaccines killing people.

America can't possibly compete with China if this sort of demonstration of ignorance is not stopped!

you didnt give an accurate rant,,

they are iron and lead combos,,, not just lead,,

No, the cast iron pipe with lead just in the joints are only used for waste water.
Cast iron is neve used for supply lines.
But pure lead was the main choice for cold water supply lines before 1920 or so,

How many homes, built before 1920, are still in use daily as residential property?

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes Americans, lead has been used for pressure water piping.
And yes, it can withstand pressure required in a water supply system.

Pb. as in plumbing!

This is another one that can stand alongside the American bullshit of the Covid vaccines killing people.

America can't possibly compete with China if this sort of demonstration of ignorance is not stopped!

you didnt give an accurate rant,,

they are iron and lead combos,,, not just lead,,

No, the cast iron pipe with lead just in the joints are only used for waste water.
Cast iron is neve used for supply lines.
But pure lead was the main choice for cold water supply lines before 1920 or so,

How many homes, built before 1920, are still in use daily as residential property?

I live in a 1912 and the house I grew up in is a 1904 and both are fully occupied,,

 

[Rigby5]

It could be a ruse to enable Biden to throw a lot of money at a non-existing problem, and then

Depends.
Some investments have a greater pay off than cost, so are worth it.
Example are Hoover dam, the St. Lawrence Seaway, TVA, etc.
I would love rural broadband myself.
When government does pump priming borrowing and spending, it can enrich consumers and boost the whole economy, making the initial borrowing small in comparison, due to inflation.
So it depends on if well researched and executed.

If you're attempting to address any of my comments, you should know that I left this discussion because it's a portrayal of the same sort of ignorance that is being displayed by Americans on the Covid vaccine.

As a catch-all reply though, I consider your comments to be nuanced enough to serve for further discussion. The reason being, the US is too far behind already for thinking of piecemeal fixes. My opinion is that it's going to take huge spending and the inherent risks attached.

Americans are angry and the attack against government is at least a symbolic effort to bring down bad government. There is risk of it growing into something that is more than just a symbolic joke.

Biden must succeed this time in breaking the country away from the 'American way', which is inequality and the hold the very wealthy has on the ordinary people.

Don't forget, the Jan.6th. riot was against government, not just one side of governemnt.

If Biden doesn't succeed then Trump is going to be back offering his solution to the problems in America. That will be a fascist bid for power.

And then no solution to the problem, because that would be contrary to a fascist agenda.

Have Americans matured enough yet to just leave the Trump experience in the dust, as a horrible experience? I think there are several indications now that would be true!

First I should provide the context that I am extreme left wing, liberal, progressive, socialist, etc.
But I did not mind the congress occupation because I do think our government is way corrupt, even though I do not think the election was rigged more than the usual poor choice of candidates.
What I don't like about our government are illegal legislation like Prohibition, the War on Drugs, federal gun laws, federal health laws, 3 Strikes, asset forfeiture, illegal wars, etc.

But I do like the idea of investing in mass transit, transportation in general, and stimulus.

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

I'm well aware of what happened in Flint. You left out a few essential things, but that is the gist of what happened.

The science simply does not support your theory that the lead isn't harmful. Lead pipes wouldn't have been banned if they weren't an ongoing problem. Even worse, the lead builds up in the bodily tissues, so the longer you drink water from lead pipes, the greater the exposure and the risk:

Lead in the water: Tens of thousands of Canadian households still have toxic pipes

You may not know whether your water comes from lead pipes. Your city may not know, either. But you're on the hook for the cost of replacing those toxic pipes even if the city's underground operations put your drinking water more at risk.

globalnews.ca

.

Basic Information about Lead in Drinking Water | US EPA

Questions and answers about lead in drinking water -- health effects, EPA regulations etc.

www.epa.gov

With more than 10 million homes in the USA still getting their water through lead pipes, this is work that needs to be done.

No one claimed lead was not toxic.
But lead simply does not normally dissolve in cold water that is not acidic.
It lead did dissolve to any degree, then these century old pipes would be bursting, and they are not.
They do not show any sign of any corrosion at all.
Have you ever looked at one?
I have.
They are smooth and shiny in most cases.
The exceptions would be if water was unusually acidic for some reason.
If one gets their water from the Great Lakes, it will have as much lead as one gets from lead pipes.
There are lead deposits under the Great Lakes.

 

[progressive hunter]

It could be a ruse to enable Biden to throw a lot of money at a non-existing problem, and then

Depends.
Some investments have a greater pay off than cost, so are worth it.
Example are Hoover dam, the St. Lawrence Seaway, TVA, etc.
I would love rural broadband myself.
When government does pump priming borrowing and spending, it can enrich consumers and boost the whole economy, making the initial borrowing small in comparison, due to inflation.
So it depends on if well researched and executed.

If you're attempting to address any of my comments, you should know that I left this discussion because it's a portrayal of the same sort of ignorance that is being displayed by Americans on the Covid vaccine.

As a catch-all reply though, I consider your comments to be nuanced enough to serve for further discussion. The reason being, the US is too far behind already for thinking of piecemeal fixes. My opinion is that it's going to take huge spending and the inherent risks attached.

Americans are angry and the attack against government is at least a symbolic effort to bring down bad government. There is risk of it growing into something that is more than just a symbolic joke.

Biden must succeed this time in breaking the country away from the 'American way', which is inequality and the hold the very wealthy has on the ordinary people.

Don't forget, the Jan.6th. riot was against government, not just one side of governemnt.

If Biden doesn't succeed then Trump is going to be back offering his solution to the problems in America. That will be a fascist bid for power.

And then no solution to the problem, because that would be contrary to a fascist agenda.

Have Americans matured enough yet to just leave the Trump experience in the dust, as a horrible experience? I think there are several indications now that would be true!

First I should provide the context that I am extreme left wing, liberal, progressive, socialist, etc.
But I did not mind the congress occupation because I do think our government is way corrupt, even though I do not think the election was rigged more than the usual poor choice of candidates.
What I don't like about our government are illegal legislation like Prohibition, the War on Drugs, federal gun laws, federal health laws, 3 Strikes, asset forfeiture, illegal wars, etc.

But I do like the idea of investing in mass transit, transportation in general, and stimulus.

other than mass transit thats not a left wing liberal,, more like right wing libertarian,

and the best stimulus happens the same way,, local,, the feds always take a big cut and use it as a political slush fund

as for mas transit,, like everything the government gets involved in it cost more and the waste is usually off the charts,,

best to let that happen on a local level where the needs came be evaluated first hand and waste left to a minimum,,

 

[Rigby5]

Safe drinking water for everyone in America is an important goal, and Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan makes a $111 billion investment toward that. While the majority of the funding goes to modernizing water treatment and delivery systems and remediating potentially harmful chemicals like PFAS, what’s gotten the most attention is a $45 billion initiative to “replace 100 percent of the nation’s lead pipes and service lines.”

If we could manage to do this, it would make a huge difference. Lead exposure has been credibly linked to stunted child development, kidney disease, auditory problems, brain damage, behavioral challenges, and more provocatively, crime. We eliminated leaded gasoline and paint in the 1970s and yet it still lingers as a persistent problem. And part of that comes through water tainted as it flows through lead pipes.

But if you want to replace all the lead water pipes in America, the first thing you have to do is find all the lead water pipes in America.

First 100: To Remove Lead Water Pipes, First You Must Find Them

And then you have to remove the whole pipe, including the part on private property.

prospect.org

This sounds like it has the makings of a chaotic nightmare. I don't have a problem with it as long as homeowners are not having to come up with money to replace them.

in all my 45 yrs of working on old houses I have never seen a single lead water pipe,, they are used fro drain pipes but not water pipes because they cant handle the pressure,,

The entire issue in Flint Michigan with their water pipes was due to lead in the water system, so it's a fallacy to say this isn't a problem in the USA.

True that Flint has lead water supply pipes, but the only reason why humans suddenly got high lead amounts is that old stagnant pipes were suddenly used, without properly flushing them out.
Normal lead from lead pipes supplying cold and neutral ph water, is essentially zero.
{...
For 50 years, Flint had purchased its water from Detroit, its neighbor 70 miles to south. However, in 2014, the cash-strapped city decided to end its agreement with Detroit and start pulling water from the Flint River until a new aqueduct was built.
...}
So it was old piping that has been unused for 50 years that caused the problem, and it was only temporary.
Once flushed out, it likely went away.

You are obviously ignorant about the situation in Flint. You confirm that with your ending comment, "Once flushed out, it likely went away".

Let me help bring you up to date.

The Flint water crisis was a public health crisis that started in 2014 and lasted until 2019,[2] after the drinking water for the city of Flint, Michigan was contaminated with lead and possibly Legionella bacteria.[1] In April 2014, during a budget crisis, Flint changed its water source from treated Detroit Water and Sewerage Department water (sourced from Lake Huron and the Detroit River) to the Flint River. Residents complained about the taste, smell, and appearance of the water. Officials failed to apply corrosion inhibitors to the water, which resulted in lead from aging pipes leaching into the water supply, exposing around 100,000 residents to elevated lead levels.[7] A pair of scientific studies confirmed that lead contamination was present in the water supply.[8][9] The city switched back to the Detroit water system on October 16, 2015.[10] It later signed a 30-year contract with the new Great Lakes Water Authority (GLWA) on November 22, 2017.[11]

Wrong.
That is reaffirming EXACTLY what I said.
Flint used to get its water from the Flint river and had no problem with lead.
Flint switched to Detroit water 50 years ago for some reason.
When Flint switched back to the old Flint river water after 50 years laying dormant and unused, the lead content was very high.
Almost immediately Flint switched back to Detroit water, so never gave the old system a chance to flush out.
They should have flushed it out for 6 months before sending it to homes.
If they had, then there would have been no lead problem.
The lead problem is NOT from the old lead pipes.
Those old lead pipes were never a problem in the decades before they switched to Detroit water 50 years ago.

What science concludes is that you can't let plumbing sit for 50 years without expecting some toxic chemical buildup.