There should be more restrictions on what poor people can buy with food stamps.

[progressive hunter]

I think it's a lot more likely that you wouldn't be as unsatisfied with the public care as you assume. You and a lot of other people. You could have partial insurance for special stuff if you had to. You would still benefit from the public care.

You need eye care right? Dental?

I've been unsatisfied with everything else the government controls,, I dont see a reason this would be different,,

first change the constitution then we can talk,,

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think it's a lot more likely that you wouldn't be as unsatisfied with the public care as you assume. You and a lot of other people. You could have partial insurance for special stuff if you had to. You would still benefit from the public care.

You need eye care right? Dental? There are many ways you could benefit.

Insurance works because they get a large pool of people. Some will be perfectly physically fit and others not so much, and even others very sickly. But it all works out because of this pool of different groups of people.

Government giving us healthcare would greatly decrease that pool meaning they have to raise rates so high it would almost be unaffordable. People would have to surrender their healthcare to government.

Look at what's going on now. Take the shot or lose your job. You won't even be able to get unemployment. And to think, they really don't have the actual power to do that to citizens yet, but they are. Imagine what they will demand when we give them that power.

Just remember one thing: Politicians (particularly on the left) have been trying to gain more and more control over us people for decades. To some degree they've been pretty successful. The two things stopping them from total control are health and energy. While they can't strip us of these things, what they can do is make us so miserable, so fearful, we beg them to take these from us.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I personally don't believe cancer patients should be left to rot. I can't promise you some rich assholes won't fight for that. Even if the public only provided partial care it would be more care than some people have right now.

Why not when things like that happened in other countries with socialist medical care?

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law. - The World from PRX

As the health care debate rages in the US, Tokyo lawmakers set a maximum waist size. Are you too fat for Japan?

www.pri.org

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Obese people will be routinely refused operations across the NHS, health service bosses have warned, after one authority said it would limit procedures on an unprecedented scale.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

God forbid some grownup gives you an incentive to stop smoking and eat healthier. Nobody would be dictating your health.

Like Commie Care didn't force you to buy health insurance. But if you didn't, they'd keep your badly needed income tax return. It's called penalizing people into submission.

 

[Anomalism]

Like Commie Care didn't force you to buy health insurance. But if you didn't, they'd keep your badly needed income tax return. It's called penalizing people into submission.

I think universal healthcare is an inevitably.

Insurance works because they get a large pool of people. Some will be perfectly physically fit and others not so much, and even others very sickly. But it all works out because of this pool of different groups of people.

Government giving us healthcare would greatly decrease that pool meaning they have to raise rates so high it would almost be unaffordable. People would have to surrender their healthcare to government.

Look at what's going on now. Take the shot or lose your job. You won't even be able to get unemployment. And to think, they really don't have the actual power to do that to citizens yet, but they are. Imagine what they will demand when we give them that power.

Just remember one thing: Politicians (particularly on the left) have been trying to gain more and more control over us people for decades. To some degree they've been pretty successful. The two things stopping them from total control are health and energy. While they can't strip us of these things, what they can do is make us so miserable, so fearful, we beg them to take these from us.

Do you think anecdotal horror stories about European healthcare are representative of most peoples' experience with it? There are very high approval rates for public healthcare in quite a number of European nations. Why is that? They're not yelling to have a system like ours. I don't buy the argument that they're just idiots and don't understand how bad they have it. It can be done well enough to make a lot of people happy and I think Europe has shown that.

Also we can do anything better than those Europeans can if we put our minds to it.

Oh, and the European countries are not socialist. They're capitalist nations despite the fact that they have universal healthcare.

 

[Anomalism]

Government giving us healthcare would greatly decrease that pool

Because the government healthcare would be a better deal for the majority of people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Do you think anecdotal horror stories about European healthcare are representative of most peoples' experience with it? There are very high approval rates for public healthcare in quite a number of European nations. Why is that? They're not yelling to have a system like ours.

What do they have to compare it to? They've only had one system. Anecdotal stories? The Japan story effects every single citizen. If they're not yelling to have a system like ours, why did they start selling health insurance in Canada?

Living up north I used to run into a lot of Canadian drivers. Many times while waiting to get loaded or unloaded, we drivers would step outside on a nice day for bullshit sessions. Whenever I ran into a Canadian driver, I always brought up healthcare. The younger and middle-aged drivers told me they love their system. You go to the doctor or hospital, get treated, and that's the last you hear about it. The older drivers warned me to keep what we have, or we will be very sorry when we get older.

Also living up north we are host to Canadian patients who can't get timely care in their country, so they come here. My sister works at the Cleveland Clinic at their main campus. She told me their beds are loaded with Canadian patients.

Bottom line is that there is no such thing as a perfect healthcare system. They all have their flaws. It's just a matter of what flaws you are willing to put up with.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because the government healthcare would be a better deal for the majority of people.

Probably. Just look at the success of our VA system and Medicaid.

 

[Anomalism]

What do they have to compare it to? They've only had one system. Anecdotal stories? The Japan story effects every single citizen. If they're not yelling to have a system like ours, why did they start selling health insurance in Canada?

Living up north I used to run into a lot of Canadian drivers. Many times while waiting to get loaded or unloaded, we drivers would step outside on a nice day for bullshit sessions. Whenever I ran into a Canadian driver, I always brought up healthcare. The younger and middle-aged drivers told me they love their system. You go to the doctor or hospital, get treated, and that's the last you hear about it. The older drivers warned me to keep what we have, or we will be very sorry when we get older.

Also living up north we are host to Canadian patients who can't get timely care in their country, so they come here. My sister works at the Cleveland Clinic at their main campus. She told me their beds are loaded with Canadian patients.

Bottom line is that there is no such thing as a perfect healthcare system. They all have their flaws. It's just a matter of what flaws you are willing to put up with.

Do you expect conservatives to win or lose this fight over healthcare?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There should be more restrictions on what poor people can buy with food stamps.

This is one of countless things wrong with conservativism.

Rather than working to address the causes of poverty and eliminate the need for public assistance, conservatives instead attack and vilify low-income Americans and the poor.

Further proof that conservatives are incapable of sound, responsible governance.

 

[Anomalism]

attack and vilify low-income Americans and the poor.

I don't think I did that.

Rather than working to address the causes of poverty

I think education and healthcare are important.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Do you expect conservatives to win or lose this fight over healthcare?

In the end they will probably lose. After all, Americans are getting more and more irresponsible and lazy as time moves on. Our current labor shortage qualifies my theory. Make it as easy as possible for citizens so they don't have to deal with the work and problems, and they will support you.

To some degree it works to my advantage as a landlord. Landlords across the country are raping tenants because we can charge just about anything we want. Younger people don't want to deal with the work associated with home ownership, so now everybody wants to rent. Supply and demand. It got so bad in California that they instituted rent controls.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is one of countless things wrong with conservativism.

Rather than working to address the causes of poverty and eliminate the need for public assistance, conservatives instead attack and vilify low-income Americans and the poor.

Further proof that conservatives are incapable of sound, responsible governance.

Our founders did not create a federal government to deal with personal problems and finances. They left that up to us. They created the federal government to govern.

Poverty in this country is not a infliction. It's a choice. If you want to be poor, then you live your life poor. If you want to be middle-class, you learn a trade or get a career with a good paying company. If you want to take a stab at wealth, you can start your own company, get an advanced education, or learn a trade and work for yourself. It's all up to you, not the government, therefore not the governments problem to fix.

How can we ever solve poverty when we pay poverty people to procreate at even a higher rate than working people? If government is going to do anything for poverty, then if you apply for any welfare program, you don't get one dime until you are fixed. No more having kids for a larger welfare check, food stamps, or a suburban HUD house. After all, in most cases, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Then we will have taken one step to help stop poverty.

 

[Anomalism]

In the end they will probably lose.

In the end I think it will be for the better. We become more and more advanced all the time. Taking care of people with public services will make more and more sense as time goes on and people become less and less necessary for production.

 

[Anomalism]

In the end some flavor of socialism is inevitable. We can't really do it yet because AI and robotics aren't advanced enough. Eventually technology will create so much excess and make so many human jobs obsolete that nothing else will make sense. Eventually society will collapse if the government doesn't help people by providing them food, shelter and health services.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In the end I think it will be for the better. We become more and more advanced all the time. Taking care of people with public services will make more and more sense as time goes on and people become less and less necessary for production.

Before Obamacare started I was at our local post office trying to get a letter out. The line was about 10 people long. I live in a predominately black suburb. The elderly lady said out loud so everybody could hear "I can't believe this. All of us are standing here, and all they have is one person behind the counter. You would think somebody in charge would put at least another person behind that counter!!!!

I told the elderly lady, if you think this is bad, these are the same people Obama wants to run our healthcare. She just gave me the dirtiest look and turned back around.

 

[ClaireH]

I disagree.
Human instincts are not limited by family.
Originally, for millions of years, raising children was tribal.
The whole "nuclear family" thing is only in the last 100 years or so.
Any society that is not involved with the general welfare of its children, will fail.
Children are the future, and are an important investment by the whole society.
All societies that invest in children, like public schools, are better than those that do not.

The need for tribal collectiveness for the purpose of safety, food, shelter is nothing like today’s needs/wants. Only going back a mere 40 years ago and most things: socially, occupational needs and choices, educational pursuits all dramatically different. Too many stark differences to list.

AI? 40 years back most would have rolled their eyes about what has transpired. There were more men than females in college and now that’s flipped. Few would have seen that coming back in the ‘80s. Or much else, considering that the rate of technology has accelerated to the point of exponential growth. That was not the case in the 80’s nor even late 90’s. It is said that going back 40 years in time equates to the number of advancements we’ll see within 10 years, or less. Think about that!

So as you see, I cannot agree with your stance that society needs a community to raise a child. That was indeed the case until relatively recently.

Now, if we’re talking south Sudan or many other countries outside the US that aren’t so extremely dangerous as Sudan region, absolutely every community/village needs to stand together to even survive.

I am sure that you are right that certain areas within the US, particularly rural areas, have maintained a larger sense of a communal collectivism.

I appreciate where you’re coming from, and a good neighbor will always watch out for a neighbor’s kid, particularly when safety is a concern.

Many, if not most who live in the US, communicate with people who live from all over the world on a daily basis. This forum, for instance, allows for such conversations. At the same time, there are many people choosing to have tight-knit circles, while others choose to have isolated living conditions. Most Americans don’t seek out face-to-face conversations for information or as part of their social life. This is the saddest part hands-down. As creatures of habit, most won’t venture out of their comfort zone.

I apologize for any redundancy that you detect in the above paragraphs. I thought I’d erased half of it by mistake and ended up repeating myself.

 

[ClaireH]

In the end some flavor of socialism is inevitable. We can't really do it yet because AI and robotics aren't advanced enough. Eventually technology will create so much excess and make so many human jobs obsolete that nothing else will make sense. Eventually society will collapse if the government doesn't help people by providing them food, shelter and health services.

Sounds like a good plan would be to make sure those AI’s won’t reach 100% potential. That way, the need to be repaired by humans stays in the equation. A pipe dream of course. Very few successful scientists would ever go along with not reaching full potential about any particular goal.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sorry but the programs set out for us older people we've funded our entire lives. But since you love this rant so much, what should we do with older people that can no longer work? March them out into the middle of the woods with a blanket for the bears to eat?

Hey, blankets cost money! If they are going to get eaten anyway, why waste the blanket?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Every couple of years or so, SS sends out pamphlets showing what you and your employers contributed to SS in all your working years, and what you would be paid today if you retired. Take that pamphlet to any reputable investment company, and have them calculate what you'd be worth today if all that money had been invested in a conservative growth account instead. You'd shit yourself at what you'd be worth today.

Not any more. You have to register with SS and they will send you the information. I do this every year.