The Worlds Deadliest Attack Helicopter?

[harmonica]

1. the Ka was developed after the Apache
2. attack heliocopters are part of a military system-that help protect/enhance each other--an example is the AWACS exponentially enhances ALL the military systems involved
3. the Russians high tech systems were defeated in Afghanistan and the US high tech systems were ''defeated'' in Vietnam
the US high tech systems were victorious in PG1/Iran Jan 2020/etc
high tech SEALS failed in Grenada and Panama
high tech SEALS were victorious killing Osama
4. pilot, troop, unit, and military training also effect the effectiveness of a weapon

..a mediocre wepon in the hands of a trained motivated soldier/Marine/etc is just as
effective [ if not more ] as a high tech weapon in the hands of a mediocre soldier/etc

..I wish I had the link, but I think an Israeli was asked if they would've been as OVERWHELMINGLY victorious in the Syrian Air War if they [ the Israelis ] had the outdated MIGs instead of the F15s----he said it's not the weapon, it's the pilot

..I was in the USMC for 8 years..training/motivation/etc is very critical
...training exercises involving the different units-air/land/sea ---are very critical

no--it's not obsolete

Yes. Sure. But lets try to imagine the abstract situation. Year 2025, there is a Civil War in the United Kingdom. Both sides are equally trained, motivated, have equal weapon.
You is a leader of one side, and you have to choose, what helicopters you will buy - 12 units of AH-64D or 12 units of Ka-52. What would you preffer if it is not a political question?

.....CIVIL war???!!!?? in the UK?? who is fighting who??!! ...the Scots vs the Brits? can you at least make the scenario believable/sensical.....like maybe conflict in Bosnia or something....'''equal weapon'' -- what does that mean?
...the US will have whatever weapons systems that are necessary

Does it matter if we are comparing helicopters?
Formally, there is a war between two main forces, two heirs of the throne - Prince Henry and Prince William. In fact its just a mess of too many groups - Russians, Radical islamists (both Sunni and Shia), Scots, Irish, Respublicans (former Labour Party), pro-EU and pro-US militants et cetera....
All foreign forces (including USA, Russia and China) don't want to invest in the victory of one side and get profit from post-war England. They want to sell weapon to all sides and get profit from the in-war Kingdom.
Something like modern Syria, you know.

....whatever, the US will have countermeasures for the Ka...

Yes. And they will have countermeasures to the Apache, too... What countermeasures will be more effective?

are you saying the Ka will go head to head with an Apache?

I very doubt that copters are fighting against copters. Both of them will fight mostly against former British Army units and half-trained local militants.

.. I was in the USMC and had Cobras around alot...we also did an exercise with the Army and they had an Apache overhead ...very awe inspiring

Yes. That's why I don't suggest Cobras for this competition.

..what are the signifcant advantages of the Ka?

 

[harmonica]

1. the Ka was developed after the Apache
2. attack heliocopters are part of a military system-that help protect/enhance each other--an example is the AWACS exponentially enhances ALL the military systems involved
3. the Russians high tech systems were defeated in Afghanistan and the US high tech systems were ''defeated'' in Vietnam
the US high tech systems were victorious in PG1/Iran Jan 2020/etc
high tech SEALS failed in Grenada and Panama
high tech SEALS were victorious killing Osama
4. pilot, troop, unit, and military training also effect the effectiveness of a weapon

..a mediocre wepon in the hands of a trained motivated soldier/Marine/etc is just as
effective [ if not more ] as a high tech weapon in the hands of a mediocre soldier/etc

..I wish I had the link, but I think an Israeli was asked if they would've been as OVERWHELMINGLY victorious in the Syrian Air War if they [ the Israelis ] had the outdated MIGs instead of the F15s----he said it's not the weapon, it's the pilot

..I was in the USMC for 8 years..training/motivation/etc is very critical
...training exercises involving the different units-air/land/sea ---are very critical

no--it's not obsolete

Yes. Sure. But lets try to imagine the abstract situation. Year 2025, there is a Civil War in the United Kingdom. Both sides are equally trained, motivated, have equal weapon.
You is a leader of one side, and you have to choose, what helicopters you will buy - 12 units of AH-64D or 12 units of Ka-52. What would you preffer if it is not a political question?

.....CIVIL war???!!!?? in the UK?? who is fighting who??!! ...the Scots vs the Brits? can you at least make the scenario believable/sensical.....like maybe conflict in Bosnia or something....'''equal weapon'' -- what does that mean?
...the US will have whatever weapons systems that are necessary

Does it matter if we are comparing helicopters?
Formally, there is a war between two main forces, two heirs of the throne - Prince Henry and Prince William. In fact its just a mess of too many groups - Russians, Radical islamists (both Sunni and Shia), Scots, Irish, Respublicans (former Labour Party), pro-EU and pro-US militants et cetera....
All foreign forces (including USA, Russia and China) don't want to invest in the victory of one side and get profit from post-war England. They want to sell weapon to all sides and get profit from the in-war Kingdom.
Something like modern Syria, you know.

....whatever, the US will have countermeasures for the Ka...

Yes. And they will have countermeasures to the Apache, too... What countermeasures will be more effective?

are you saying the Ka will go head to head with an Apache?

I very doubt that copters are fighting against copters. Both of them will fight mostly against former British Army units and half-trained local militants.

.. I was in the USMC and had Cobras around alot...we also did an exercise with the Army and they had an Apache overhead ...very awe inspiring

Yes. That's why I don't suggest Cobras for this competition.

...yes--I don't see choppers going head to head--so, you are saying the Apache can't survive/what?

 

[Flash]

Russian built hardware is crap. Really.

Care to offer any examples? The AK bucks your suggestion. Then there is the meager ability to reliably launch people into space...

The AK-47 was really a shitty weapon, contrary to the bullshit myths. Crummy sights, inaccurate as hell, can't fire more than a couple of mags of F-A and yes it does jam. It is a peasant gun.

The newest AK-74 variation has copied all the features that make the M-16 platform a better weapon system.

Comparing the AK-47 to the M-16 platform is like comparing the Mosin Nagant to the Garand. The Garand was far superior.

As far as launching people into space you also have to safely return them. The Russians didn't do that very well.

The modern M-16 round was developed to emulate the ballistic performance of the soviet 5.54 round. The “poison bullet. At actual real world combat distances there is no appreciable difference between the rifles, or accuracy of the rounds. The M-16 platform is more accurate at a distance. But inside typical distance of engagement; it’s a non-issue.

You are a little confused. The AR-10 (.308) came before the AR-15. The AR platform was designed around the .308, a full size cartridge. It wasn't until the AR-10 was proven not very controllable for full auto fire that the lighter .223 caliber was adopted. It was not a copy of the AK.

By the way the 7.62 x 39 is embarrassingly inaccurate on semi auto but even worse on F-A. Hard to keep on target on F-A. If anything the Soviets copied the .223 when they redesigned the AK-47 to be like the M-16 with the AK-74.

The M-16 platform is superior to the AK on both semi auto and full auto.

Another note. I am alive today because an AK jammed. Contrary to popular belief they do jam.

The US had a lightweight Semi/F-A medium caliber "assault weapon" before the Soviets invented the AK-47. It was the M-1A2 Carbine.

 

[Silver Cat]

Yes. Sure. But lets try to imagine the abstract situation. Year 2025, there is a Civil War in the United Kingdom. Both sides are equally trained, motivated, have equal weapon.
You is a leader of one side, and you have to choose, what helicopters you will buy - 12 units of AH-64D or 12 units of Ka-52. What would you preffer if it is not a political question?

.....CIVIL war???!!!?? in the UK?? who is fighting who??!! ...the Scots vs the Brits? can you at least make the scenario believable/sensical.....like maybe conflict in Bosnia or something....'''equal weapon'' -- what does that mean?
...the US will have whatever weapons systems that are necessary

Does it matter if we are comparing helicopters?
Formally, there is a war between two main forces, two heirs of the throne - Prince Henry and Prince William. In fact its just a mess of too many groups - Russians, Radical islamists (both Sunni and Shia), Scots, Irish, Respublicans (former Labour Party), pro-EU and pro-US militants et cetera....
All foreign forces (including USA, Russia and China) don't want to invest in the victory of one side and get profit from post-war England. They want to sell weapon to all sides and get profit from the in-war Kingdom.
Something like modern Syria, you know.

....whatever, the US will have countermeasures for the Ka...

Yes. And they will have countermeasures to the Apache, too... What countermeasures will be more effective?

are you saying the Ka will go head to head with an Apache?

I very doubt that copters are fighting against copters. Both of them will fight mostly against former British Army units and half-trained local militants.

.. I was in the USMC and had Cobras around alot...we also did an exercise with the Army and they had an Apache overhead ...very awe inspiring

Yes. That's why I don't suggest Cobras for this competition.

..what are the signifcant advantages of the Ka?

Missiles Hermes-A (range 20 clicks), better armour, better sensors, it needs less maintenance, possibility to use AA missiles (if there will be head-to-head fight against air targets)

 

[whitehall]

You know the stuff is junk when the best thing you can say for Russian engineering is "ingenuity". Ingenuity happens when the plan fails.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

1. the Ka was developed after the Apache
2. attack heliocopters are part of a military system-that help protect/enhance each other--an example is the AWACS exponentially enhances ALL the military systems involved
3. the Russians high tech systems were defeated in Afghanistan and the US high tech systems were ''defeated'' in Vietnam
the US high tech systems were victorious in PG1/Iran Jan 2020/etc
high tech SEALS failed in Grenada and Panama
high tech SEALS were victorious killing Osama
4. pilot, troop, unit, and military training also effect the effectiveness of a weapon

..a mediocre wepon in the hands of a trained motivated soldier/Marine/etc is just as
effective [ if not more ] as a high tech weapon in the hands of a mediocre soldier/etc

..I wish I had the link, but I think an Israeli was asked if they would've been as OVERWHELMINGLY victorious in the Syrian Air War if they [ the Israelis ] had the outdated MIGs instead of the F15s----he said it's not the weapon, it's the pilot

..I was in the USMC for 8 years..training/motivation/etc is very critical
...training exercises involving the different units-air/land/sea ---are very critical

no--it's not obsolete

Yes. Sure. But lets try to imagine the abstract situation. Year 2025, there is a Civil War in the United Kingdom. Both sides are equally trained, motivated, have equal weapon.
You is a leader of one side, and you have to choose, what helicopters you will buy - 12 units of AH-64D or 12 units of Ka-52. What would you preffer if it is not a political question?

.....CIVIL war???!!!?? in the UK?? who is fighting who??!! ...the Scots vs the Brits? can you at least make the scenario believable/sensical.....like maybe conflict in Bosnia or something....'''equal weapon'' -- what does that mean?
...the US will have whatever weapons systems that are necessary

Does it matter if we are comparing helicopters?
Formally, there is a war between two main forces, two heirs of the throne - Prince Henry and Prince William. In fact its just a mess of too many groups - Russians, Radical islamists (both Sunni and Shia), Scots, Irish, Respublicans (former Labour Party), pro-EU and pro-US militants et cetera....
All foreign forces (including USA, Russia and China) don't want to invest in the victory of one side and get profit from post-war England. They want to sell weapon to all sides and get profit from the in-war Kingdom.
Something like modern Syria, you know.

....whatever, the US will have countermeasures for the Ka...

Yes. And they will have countermeasures to the Apache, too... What countermeasures will be more effective?

are you saying the Ka will go head to head with an Apache?

I very doubt that copters are fighting against copters. Both of them will fight mostly against former British Army units and half-trained local militants.

.. I was in the USMC and had Cobras around alot...we also did an exercise with the Army and they had an Apache overhead ...very awe inspiring

Yes. That's why I don't suggest Cobras for this competition.

Actually, war games, the Cobra out class the Apache in a head to head Chopper against Chopper confrontation. Both are dead as all hell and the one that sees the other first normally wins. And if it gets into a Chopper dog fight, the Cobra wins. But in most all other categories, the Apache edges the Cobra out. Unless both sides runs out of fast movers, you won't see a Chopper to Chopper large scale confrontation. Only in the movies does the Chopper eve win against a fast mover.

 

[whitehall]

Unparalleled? Who ever made that claim about Soviet "Hind" junk. Afghans shot them down for sport.