Zone1 the universe has a beginning

[Quantrill]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-new-big-bang-evidence-creation-is-a-fact/amp/

“If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

The big bang theory doesn't match (Gen. 1:1) as I have showed. If you're going to make something up other than the big bang theory, try harder.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Something never comes from nothing.

Quantrill

 

[ding]

There is no big bang without something to go big bang.

And the Bible says God created from nothing.

2 Maccabees isn't Scripture.

Quantrill

Incorrect. I’ve provided a video from a world renowned cosmologist and a post that explains how a universe can be created from nothing. Which by the way is a long held religious belief of Judaism and Christianity. I can only imagine you attend some backwoods church that has brainwashed you.

 

[Godboy]

Probably has had many beginnings and many more to come. Poor humans can't conceive of infinity.

If its a "closed universe", that is certainly true. We dont know yet whether is "open, closed, or flat".

 

[ding]

Something never comes from nothing.

Quantrill

God can create from nothing. God doesn’t need something to make something.

 

[ding]

If it’s a "closed universe", that is certainly true. We dont know yet whether is "open, closed, or flat".

Well… yes, we do because this is the only way the CMB can be explained.

 

[Quantrill]

OMG I was right. You are a religious nut job.

God gave you a brain for a reason. The Big Bang and evolution do not refute God, they show God’s power and glory.

You are religious...correct? At least you appear to be.

Of course the big bang doesn't refute God, because the big bang doesn't represent God's work in the creation.

Quantrill

 

[ding]

The big bang theory doesn't match (Gen. 1:1) as I have showed. If you're going to make something up other than the big bang theory, try harder.

Quantrill

But it does. You are just too dumb to understand it.

 

[Quantrill]

God can create from nothing. God doesn’t need something to make something.

Of course God can create from nothing, as He did. The big bang speaks to something from something. Not something from nothing.

Quantrill

 

[Godboy]

Well… yes, we do because this is the only way the CMB can be explained.

Not true. A "preference" does not equal "must be the only explanation".

Analysis of Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) data, particularly from the Planck mission, has shown a preference for a closed universe model over the standard flat model, creating a "cosmological crisis" due to a conflict with other cosmological observations indicating a flat universe. A closed universe would curve like a sphere, potentially leading to effects like enhanced lensing and tensions in cosmological parameters that are naturally explained by a closed geometry. However, the prevailing view in the scientific community is still that the universe is flat, with ongoing research addressing the apparent contradiction between different CMB findings and other measurements.

 

[Quantrill]

But it does. You are just too dumb to understand it.

No it doesn't. (Gen. 1:1) "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" No big bang. Simply God creating from nothing.

Quantrill

 

[ding]

You are religious...correct? At least you appear to be.

Of course the big bang doesn't refute God, because the big bang doesn't represent God's work in the creation.

Quantrill

Creatio ex nihilo (Latin, 'creation out of nothing') or nihilogony is the doctrine that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe came to exist.

Nicene Christian theologies hold to creation ex nihilo. The doctrine has been defended in Christian circles since the religion's infancy, receiving its first explicit articulation by Theophilus of Antioch in To Autolycus. In a chapter entitled "Absurd Opinions of the Philosophers Concerning God", he writes:

As, therefore, in all these respects God is more powerful than man, so also in this; that out of things that are not He creates and has created things that are.

Theophilus's statement is nearly identical to epistle to the Romans 4:17:

God...who quickeneth the dead; and calleth those things that are not, as those that are.

Thus, there is evidence that creation ex nihilo was being discussed in at least some Christian theological circles by the 3rd century.

 

[ding]

No it doesn't. (Gen. 1:1) "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" No big bang. Simply God creating from nothing.

Quantrill

God gave you a brain. Use it.

 

[Godboy]

The big bang theory doesn't match (Gen. 1:1) as I have showed. If you're going to make something up other than the big bang theory, try harder.

Quantrill

The people who wrote the bible had no concept of, let alone any factual data, concerning the big bang, therefore you wont find the answers to the universe in the bible.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

"logos" is the ancient Greek word that gave rise to the English word "logic but "logos" itself has a much broader meaning that includes "word," "discourse," "reason," "principle," or the intelligent order behind the universe. While logic focuses on formal systems of thought, logos in its original Greek context encompasses a wider array of concepts, such as reasoned speech, universal reason, and the very structure of reality.
The Relationship Between Logos and Logic

• Origin:The word "logic" (in Greek, loyikí) is directly derived from the Greek word logos.
• Evolution of Meaning:Over time, Greek philosophers and thinkers, such as Aristotle, used the concept of logos to describe reasoned thought and discourse, which then led to the formalization of "logic" as the study of correct reasoning.

The Broader Meaning of Logos

• Word and Discourse:At its most fundamental level, logos means "word" or "speech," but also extends to "discourse," "reason," "explanation," and even "story".
• Reason and Order:For ancient Greek philosophers like Plato and the Stoics, logos referred to a universal, divine reason or the intelligent principle that governs the universe.
• Rhetoric and Persuasion:In rhetoric, logos refers to the use of reason and facts to persuade an audience, making it a fundamental part of communication.

In Summary
While the English word "logic" directly comes from "logos," the original Greek term is a far richer and more multifaceted concept than just formal logic. It encompasses the fundamental principles of reality, the structure of thought, and the power of reasoned communication.

Creature Who Speaks Back

Anthropos "human" comes from anti "back and forth" rhetheis "speak (as in rhetoric) " epos "sound with meaning."

 

[ding]

Not true. A "preference" does not equal "must be the only explanation".

Analysis of Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) data, particularly from the Planck mission, has shown a preference for a closed universe model over the standard flat model, creating a "cosmological crisis" due to a conflict with other cosmological observations indicating a flat universe. A closed universe would curve like a sphere, potentially leading to effects like enhanced lensing and tensions in cosmological parameters that are naturally explained by a closed geometry. However, the prevailing view in the scientific community is still that the universe is flat, with ongoing research addressing the apparent contradiction between different CMB findings and other measurements.

I am talking about how the radiation was created. And for that there is only one means… paired particle production.

 

[Unkotare]

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I don't believe the 'big bang theory'.

Quantirll

Don't put something equally irrational in its place

 

[ding]

The people who wrote the bible had no concept of, let alone any factual data, concerning the big bang, therefore you wont find the answers to the universe in the bible.

And yet they were remarkably accurate and well ahead of science when it came to believing the universe was created, had a beginning and logically evolved sequentially over time. That’s what the creation account is saying in an allegorical fashion.

 

[Godboy]

I am talking about how the radiation was created. And for that there is only one means… paired particle production.

You should never be certain about there only being one answer when it comes to the universe. There are far too many things we dont understand. We dont even truly understand all aspects of radiation either. We dont know whats possible or impossible at this point.