Zone1 the universe has a beginning

[ding]

You mean the 'theory' believes that. It is all theory. It is the faith of science. They were not there, and they don't know.

I thought the universe popped into existence in (Gen. 1:1). Not (1:2).

Quantrill

The evidence shows that.

 

[ding]

I thought the universe popped into existence in (Gen. 1:1). Not (1:2).

God creates the universe in 1:1
Light appears in 1:2.

 

[ding]

Indeed it is.


Ok. I don't believe it.

Quantrill

Good for you. Here’s what I believe.

Genesis isn’t a science textbook. It’s an allegorical account of a core belief of monotheism; which is a moralistic and providential creator God creating existence largely leaving men to decide for themselves between good and evil.

A little context is in order. These accounts predate Abraham. It wasn’t written by Moses at the time of Exodus. It was passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before it was recorded in writing at the time of Exodus. Abraham existed in Sumerian times. Polytheism was the dominant belief of the land at that time. Basically polytheists believed the universe had always existed and that the affairs of nature and men were controlled by a committe of gods. So the creation and fall of man accounts were a radical departure from the widespread beliefs of those days.

So the key message of these accounts is that a moralistic and providential Creator created existence (the universe) and allowed man to decide for himself if he would be moral or not and suffer the consequences of his choices.

The creation account is not intended to be read literally. It is an allegorical account of creation which includes the creative act of creating the universe and an allegorical description of how that creation evolved. Specifically that it evolved in steps over time.

Verse 1 and 3 match what science tells us perfectly. The universe was created and was dark for the first 380,000 years until it cooled enough for radiation to decouple from matter. This account knew the universe was created and was dark 6,000 years before science. So I can’t understand why what I am telling you bothers you.

 

[Quantrill]

The evidence shows that.

No it doesn't. It can't. Because they were not there in the beginning.

Again, I thought the universe popped into existence in (Gen. 1:1), not (1:2). What's the deal?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

God creates the universe in 1:1
Light appears in 1:2.

Wrong. Light does not appear in (Gen. 1:2).

Quantrill

 

[ding]

No it doesn't. It can't. Because they were not there in the beginning.

Again, I thought the universe popped into existence in (Gen. 1:1), not (1:2). What's the deal?

Quantrill

You are ignorant about science. It would be idiotic for me to argue with you about it. I’ve already covered this. Go look it up for yourself.

 

[Quantrill]

Good for you. Here’s what I believe.

Genesis isn’t a science textbook. It’s an allegorical account of a core belief of monotheism; which is a moralistic and providential creator God creating existence largely leaving men to decide for themselves between good and evil.

A little context is in order. These accounts predate Abraham. It wasn’t written by Moses at the time of Exodus. It was passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before it was recorded in writing at the time of Exodus. Abraham existed in Sumerian times. Polytheism was the dominant belief of the land at that time. Basically polytheists believed the universe had always existed and that the affairs of nature and men were controlled by a committe of gods. So the creation and fall of man accounts were a radical departure from the widespread beliefs of those days.

So the key message of these accounts is that a moralistic and providential Creator created existence (the universe) and allowed man to decide for himself if he would be moral or not and suffer the consequences of his choices.

The creation account is not intended to be read literally. It is an allegorical account of creation which includes the creative act of creating the universe and an allegorical description of how that creation evolved. Specifically that it evolved in steps over time.

So to answer your question directly… verse 3 and 4 are products of verse 2. Which by the way verse 1 and 2 match what science tells us perfectly. The universe was created and was dark for the first 380,000 years until it cooled enough for radiation to decouple from matter. This account knew the universe was created and was dark 6,000 years before science. So I can’t understand why what I am telling you bothers you.

Again, no light in (Gen. 1:2)

And, are these your words or someone else's?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You are ignorant about science. It would be idiotic for me to argue with you about it. I’ve already covered this. Go look it up for yourself.

Well, if you and science want to say the earth 'is' 4 billion years old, then I want to be ignorant about science. What a silly statement. The earth could be younger or older than that. Science doesn't know.

Quantrill

 

[ding]

Well, if you and science want to say the earth 'is' 4 billion years old, then I want to be ignorant about science. What a silly statement. The earth could be younger or older than that. Science doesn't know.

Quantrill

It would be idiotic for me to argue with someone who is so ignorant of science.

 

[ding]

Again, no light in (Gen. 1:2)

And, are these your words or someone else's?

Quantrill

Sorry, verse 3. But you knew that. Very unchristian of you.

 

[BreezeWood]

belief and reality, the truth often are diametrically opposed being the reason both are not acceptable as truth being the only option ...

the desert bibles are littered with forgeries lies and fallacies - that is the point to remove the distortions from those publications.

the issues being discussed began 6k years ago. what people believe is not a legitimate argument for what is the truth.

So you say. Just your opinion. Mine is different. I believe the Bible is the Word of God. You have your faith, and I have mine. Be happy with yours. I am quite satisfied with mine.

Quantrill

no, that is not an opinion, unless proven, belief is not a substitute for the truth. only truth is the path to the heavens.

you do not know than belief the christian bible or any of the three desert bibles w/ the same prologue are the truth or not.

 

[DukeU]

I didn’t realize that was a serious question. I thought you were referring to me personally.

Genesis isn’t a science textbook. It’s an allegorical account of a core belief of monotheism; which is a moralistic and providential creator God creating existence largely leaving men to decide for themselves between good and evil.

A little context is in order. These accounts predate Abraham. It wasn’t written by Moses at the time of Exodus. It was passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before it was recorded in writing at the time of Exodus. Abraham existed in Sumerian times. Polytheism was the dominant belief of the land at that time. Basically polytheists believed the universe had always existed and that the affairs of nature and men were controlled by a committe of gods. So the creation and fall of man accounts were a radical departure from the widespread beliefs of those days.

So the key message of these accounts is that a moralistic and providential Creator created existence (the universe) and allowed man to decide for himself if he would be moral or not and suffer the consequences of his choices.

The creation account is not intended to be read literally. It is an allegorical account of creation which includes the creative act of creating the universe and an allegorical description of how that creation evolved. Specifically that it evolved in steps over time.

So to answer your question directly… verse 3 and 4 are products of verse 2. Which by the way verse 1 and 2 match what science tells us perfectly. The universe was created and was dark for the first 380,000 years until it cooled enough for radiation to decouple from matter. This account knew the universe was created and was dark 6,000 years before science. So I can’t understand why what I am telling you bothers you.

You can believe that if you wish, I just disagree.

You are adding to/taking away from what the Bible/God is telling you.

Revelation 22​

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[ding]

You can believe that if you wish, I just disagree.

You are adding to/taking away from what the Bible/God is telling you.

Revelation 22​

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I’m not taking anything away from God. What God did is beyond compare.

 

[DukeU]

I’m not taking anything away from God. What God did is beyond compare.

The Bible is part of what he did.

Why would he give us a book of instruction open to interpretation?

 

[ding]

The Bible is part of what he did.

Why would he give us a book of instruction open to interpretation?

God didn’t write the Bible.

And if you think the Bible is so straight forward then why aren’t you eating the flesh of Christ and drinking his blood like he commanded?

 

[DukeU]

God didn’t write the Bible.

And if you think the Bible is so straight forward then why aren’t you eating the flesh of Christ and drinking his blood like he commanded?

He didn't and wouldn't command me to do something that is impossible.

 

[ding]

He didn't and wouldn't command me to do something that is impossible.

Do you even know what I am talking about?

 

[DukeU]

Do you even know what I am talking about?

No, and with all due respect, I don't think you do either.

 

[ding]

No, and with all due respect, I don't think you do either.

1. Jesus said he was the bread of life and whoever ate this bread would have eternal life. John 6:48-51
2. The Jews quarreled and said how can this man give us his flesh to eat. John 6:52
3. So rather than softening his stance he doubled down and said very clearly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53
4. Afterwards his disciples said, this is hard to take. John 6:60
5. Jesus asked them, does this shock you. John 6:61
6. Then Jesus explained that it is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. John 6:62-63
7. But they didn't believe in Jesus and they couldn't accept what he was saying because it shocked them like it is shocking you. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:64-65

 

[DukeU]

1. Jesus said he was the bread of life and whoever ate this bread would have eternal life. John 6:48-51
2. The Jews quarreled and said how can this man give us his flesh to eat. John 6:52
3. So rather than softening his stance he doubled down and said very clearly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53
4. Afterwards his disciples said, this is hard to take. John 6:60
5. Jesus asked them, does this shock you. John 6:61
6. Then Jesus explained that it is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. John 6:62-63
7. But they didn't believe in Jesus and they couldn't accept what he was saying because it shocked them like it is shocking you. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:64-65

That doesn't shock me.

I understand completely.

We have to accept/believe in Jesus' death and resurrection to receive eternal life.