Zone1 the universe has a beginning

[Quantrill]

This is my point exactly. It is that man has taken their conceived notions of God creating from nothing and superimpose it on the word, "CREATE" as if it implies a creation out of nothing.

This verse, Heb 11:3 (not 13), does not imply that worlds were created out of nothing but that it was made of things which do not appear to the natural eye. It may be that the elements that the earth was created from were so small that when God commanded them to come together to form the earth that they were not visible to man but microscopic.

No, means created in (Gen. 1:1) speaks to created from nothing. As opposed to later creations from 'made'.

Yes, my typo on the verse number. If they don't appear to the natural eye, then they are created out of nothing to the natural eye.

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That doesn’t say there is no evolution. The Bible doesn’t address that subject. Science does. Just like science says the universe had a beginning which is what Genesis 1:1 says too.

Sure it does. God created man. Not evolution. Man did not evolve. Scripture is clear.

The beginning science says of the universe is not the beginning God says in (Gen. 1:1)

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But do you believe the age of the earth is closer to 6,000 years like a religious nut job believes or is it closer to 4 billion years which is what geologic evidence shows?

I answer your questions yet you don't answer mine. Scared? How old does your science believe the earth is?

I already told you, we don't know how old the earth is. Now, answer my question.

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That’s exactly what I would expect a religious nut job would do.

What? Expecting you to be more observant in what has been said? Go back and reread. Take notes.

You aren’t very bright, are you? What part of the Big Bang confirms the universe began, don’t you understand?

Well, I just asked you. Where does the big bang theory say God created the heaven and the earth?

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So, you won't answer my question?

I didn’t realize that was a serious question. I thought you were referring to me personally.

Genesis isn’t a science textbook. It’s an allegorical account of a core belief of monotheism; which is a moralistic and providential creator God creating existence largely leaving men to decide for themselves between good and evil.

A little context is in order. These accounts predate Abraham. It wasn’t written by Moses at the time of Exodus. It was passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before it was recorded in writing at the time of Exodus. Abraham existed in Sumerian times. Polytheism was the dominant belief of the land at that time. Basically polytheists believed the universe had always existed and that the affairs of nature and men were controlled by a committe of gods. So the creation and fall of man accounts were a radical departure from the widespread beliefs of those days.

So the key message of these accounts is that a moralistic and providential Creator created existence (the universe) and allowed man to decide for himself if he would be moral or not and suffer the consequences of his choices.

The creation account is not intended to be read literally. It is an allegorical account of creation which includes the creative act of creating the universe and an allegorical description of how that creation evolved. Specifically that it evolved in steps over time.

So to answer your question directly… verse 4 and 5 are products of verse 3. Which by the way verse 1 and 3match what science tells us perfectly. The universe was created and was dark for the first 380,000 years until it cooled enough for radiation to decouple from matter. This account knew the universe was created and was dark 6,000 years before science. So I can’t understand why what I am telling you bothers you.

 

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Sure it does. God created man. Not evolution. Man did not evolve. Scripture is clear.

The beginning science says of the universe is not the beginning God says in (Gen. 1:1)

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God did create man but not in the way you believe he did. The way he did it was way more powerful and displays his glory in a way more impressive manner.

This is a life breeding intelligence creating universe because the constant presence of mind (God) made it so by imbuing his creation with his attributes. God is every extant attribute of reality. I’m not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes.

 

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I answer your questions yet you don't answer mine. Scared? How old does your science believe the earth is?

I already told you, we don't know how old the earth is. Now, answer my question.

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We both know you don’t accept the earth being 4 billion years old.

 

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God did create man but not in the way you believe he did. The way he did it was way more powerful and displays his glory in a way more impressive manner.

This is a life breeding intelligence creating universe because the constant presence of mind (God) made it so by imbuing his creation with his attributes. God is every extant attribute of reality. I’m not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes.

He sure did. And evolution wasn't involved.

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What? Expecting you to be more observant in what has been said? Go back and reread. Take notes.



Well, I just asked you. Where does the big bang theory say God created the heaven and the earth?

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I’m going to say this as nice as I can. I’m sure you are a nice guy but you aren’t able to be objective.

 

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We both know you don’t accept the earth being 4 billion years old.

Scared? How old does your science believe the earth is?

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He sure did. And evolution wasn't involved.

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Sure it was. God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth. Denying reality is not worshipping God, it’s worshipping yourself.

 

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I’m going to say this as nice as I can. I’m sure you are a nice guy but you aren’t able to be objective.

You don't know that I'm a nice guy. Again, where does the big bang theory say God created the heaven and earth?

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Scared? How old does your science believe the earth is?

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Based on evidence from the geologic record, the earth is ~4 billion years old.

 

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Sure it was. God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth. Denying reality is not worshipping God, it’s worshipping yourself.

That God is Spirit and Truth, doesn't mean evolution was involved in the creation. How silly.

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You don't know that I'm a nice guy. Again, where does the big bang theory say God created the heaven and earth?

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It doesn’t. It shows the universe began and that light appeared ~380,000 after the universe popped into existence.

Which confirms Genesis 1:1-2.

How many more times are you going to ask this question?

 

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Based on evidence from the geologic record, the earth is ~4 billion years old.

What geological record? Were they there when the universe began?

You say 'the earth is 4 billion years old'. When that is actually nothing but a belief. Science doens't know.

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That God is Spirit and Truth, doesn't mean evolution was involved in the creation. How silly.

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That’s nice.

 

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What geological record? Were they there when the universe began?

You say 'the earth is 4 billion years old'. When that is actually nothing but a belief. Science doens't know.

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Don’t believe it. I don’t care.

 

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It doesn’t. It shows the universe began and that light appeared ~380,000 after the universe popped into existence.

Which confirms Genesis 1:1-2.

How many more times are you going to ask this question?

You mean the 'theory' believes that. It is all theory. It is the faith of science. They were not there, and they don't know.

I thought the universe popped into existence in (Gen. 1:1). Not (1:2).

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That’s nice.

Indeed it is.

Don’t believe it. I don’t care.

Ok. I don't believe it.

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