The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[AZrailwhale]

Some people have this ridiculous cartoon notion that no Japanese soldier ever surrendered, or that an entire nation doesn't care about their own lives at all. That is not and never has been true. Anyone who has actually studied Japanese history knows that soldiers and their leaders surrendered in wars at times just like any other peoples. "Western" cultures honor those who fight to the end as well.

https://www.army.mil/article/92856/the_story_of_the_nuts_reply

In WWII very few JAPANESE troops surrendered. On Okinawa for instance, the Japanese had 130,000 troops, only 7,000 surrendered and most of those weren't Japanese at all, they were Korean draftees.
Yes surrender was normal in the intra-Japanese wars, but not in WWII, the Bushido culture that evolved in the military between 1918 and 1936 was very different than the historical Japanese military culture.
From Wikki:
"
Bushido regarded surrender as cowardly. Those who did forfeited their honor and lost dignity and respect:[99]

As Japan continued its modernization in the early 20th century, her armed forces became convinced that success in battle would be assured if Japanese soldiers, sailors, and airmen had the "spirit" of Bushido. ... The result was that the Bushido code of behavior "was inculcated into the Japanese soldier as part of his basic training". Each soldier was indoctrinated to accept that it was the greatest honor to die for the Emperor and it was cowardly to surrender to the enemy. ... Bushido therefore explains why the Japanese in the NEI so mistreated POWs in their custody. Those who had surrendered to the Japanese—regardless of how courageously or honorably they had fought—merited nothing but contempt; they had forfeited all honor and literally deserved nothing. Consequently, when the Japanese murdered POWs by shooting, beheading, and drowning, these acts were excused since they involved the killing of men who had forfeited all rights to be treated with dignity or respect. While civilian internees were certainly in a different category from POWs, it is reasonable to think that there was a "spill-over" effect from the tenets of Bushido.
— Fred Borch, Military Trials of War Criminals in the Netherlands East Indies 1946–1949".

 

[Unkotare]

Sturma, Michael. “The Limits of Hate: Japanese Prisoners on US Submarines during the Second World War.” Journal of Contemporary History, vol. 51, no. 4, 2016, pp. 738–59. JSTOR, https://www.jstor.org/stable/26416464. Accessed 4 Nov. 2022.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm not, ...

You are. Human beings are human beings.

Middle aged men in the US have the highest suicide rate in the country. Are they not human?

 

[Unkotare]

Yes it was
...

No, it wasn't.

 

[Unkotare]

...
Yes surrender was normal in the intra-Japanese wars, but not in WWII, the Bushido culture that evolved in the military between 1918 and 1936 was very different than the historical Japanese military culture.
....

Nice job contradicting yourself.

 

[Mac-7]

No, it wasn't.

Twas so

 

[Unkotare]

Twas so

Nope. Get yourself a map.

 

[Mac-7]

Nope. Get yourself a map.

What would that show me?

Saipan was a japanese island populated by native japanese

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Saipan was considered the same as the home Islands and was peopled by Japanese.

 

[Unkotare]

What would that show me?

Saipan was a japanese island populated by native japanese

Keep trying, it may come to you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Saipan was considered the same as the home Islands and was peopled by Japanese.

Ohh Look our resident history teacher that claims he knows everything about ww2 Japan doesnt know that Saipan was considered the same as the home Islands.

 

[Mac-7]

Keep trying, it may come to you.

You got nuthin’ and are just stalling

 

[elektra]

From gipper to griffith, not one is able to debate, or simply discuss the pacific war, rationally.

The revisionist declare victory, cherry picking a sentence when it takes a entire library of books to chronicle the events of the War with Japan.

Sad are the creatures who deny their hate and never realize their ignorance.

 

[Unkotare]

You got nuthin’ and are just stalling

Are you really this ignorant?

 

[Unkotare]

...

Sad are the creatures who deny their hate ....

NOT rationalizing the targeting and incineration of hundreds of thousands of civilians is "hate"?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

War sucks. Probably not a good idea to start one.

In the words of the warrior poet, Will Smith...

"Don't start nothing, won't be nothing "

Wait a minute......

Isn't "Warrior Poet" Society........code for White Power Society ????

'Warrior Poet" wink wink wink

 

[braalian]

They sneak attacked us without declaring war. Thousands died.

Everything that happened to them after that point was their own fault.

They were given the opportunity to surrender and didn’t.

The civilians should have demanded the government surrender or at least passively resisted by not participating in the war effort.

 

[Unkotare]

...

The civilians should have demanded the government surrender or at least passively resisted by not participating in the war effort.

The Kempeitai had undisclosed locations where (the increasing numbers of) those opposed to the war were taken, tortured, questioned, and only sometimes released. Where do you think that stupid "attack the heavily armed US Marines with pointy sticks" propaganda stunt came from?

 

[Batcat]

Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writesfor the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousandscannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

People tend to forget abut Dresden Germany.

Why Agonize Over Hiroshima, Not Dresden?

As we celebrate the 55th anniversary of the end of World War II, we might well look at America's fascination with guilt feelings about selected past sins.

www.latimes.com

The following pictures are from Dresden after the bombing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Kempeitai had undisclosed locations where (the increasing numbers of) those opposed to the war were taken, tortured, questioned, and only sometimes released. Where do you think that stupid "attack the heavily armed US Marines with pointy sticks" propaganda stunt came from?

it wasnt a stunt RETARD. it was a plan for action and was being implemented.