The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
34,776
Reaction score
7,566
Points
1,130
Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writes for the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousands cannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
 

regent

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
10,459
Reaction score
1,120
Points
245
The best American value is that many Americans didn't die in the invasion of Japan.
 

BlackFlag

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
21,292
Reaction score
1,848
Points
280
Location
America
It was a war we didn't start, we developed a means to end it, and we ended it. Should we all find ourselves in a similar predicament in WW3, we'll dream of a similar means of ending the war.
 
OP
gipper

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
34,776
Reaction score
7,566
Points
1,130
The best American value is that many Americans didn't die in the invasion of Japan.
Yeah...mass murder civilians of a defenseless nation ready to surrender, based on inaccurate information.

Ike said don’t drop those bombs. Admiral Leahy said don’t drop those bombs.
 

Manonthestreet

Platinum Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
24,029
Reaction score
8,299
Points
980
Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.
What utter BS
 

DGS49

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
8,683
Reaction score
2,400
Points
290
Location
Pittsburgh
You and the quoted writer are both morons.

Plan B was massive conventional bombing and a land invasion, in which many hundreds of thousands of Japanese and tens of thousands of Americans would have perished.

The Bomb(s) was the more humanitarian approach. People who always look to make America look bad are stupid swine.
 

JustAnotherNut

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,969
Points
390
Japan knew of & expected serious retaliation for Pearl Harbor and I surely wouldn't call them defenseless.



I just don't think anyone expected such destruction
 

regent

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
10,459
Reaction score
1,120
Points
245
Japan knew of & expected serious retaliation for Pearl Harbor and I surely wouldn't call them defenseless.



I just don't think anyone expected such destruction
If a nation destroys an enemy's naval base for starters what destruction would be appropriate? Maybe if the Japanese cut off the heads of our fliers the destruction would have seemed more appropriate? What do you think?
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
89,060
Reaction score
7,583
Points
1,815
....

The Bomb(s) was the more humanitarian approach. .....
That is disingenuous BS meant to bury any guilty feelings that might come with a clear, sober evaluation of history. It is most certainly NOT "anti-American" to look at history directly and objectively, and anyone who cannot do so due to emotion is no historian.
 

deanrd

Gold Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
29,323
Reaction score
3,555
Points
290
The best American value is that many Americans didn't die in the invasion of Japan.
It's estimated that the invasion, optimistically, would have cost the lives of a millions American soldiers. Not to mention the number of Japanese that would have died.

Compared to that, the price wasn't that steep at all.

Remember, at the time, the Japanese believed their emperor was descended from God. They were protecting the descendent of GOD! How many would have thrown their lives away believing that nonsense?
 

K9Buck

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2009
Messages
10,761
Reaction score
1,832
Points
280
Well. cities such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki did have military value and they also produced many soldiers and equipment to be used in the war. I don't believe it was immoral to bomb them.

Japan was on its knees mostly because the U.S. had a naval blockade that prevented the Japanese from importing food, oil, etc. The Soviets had nothing to do with that blockade just like the Soviets had nothing to do with defeating the imperial navy and successfully taking islands that brought U.S. bombers to Japan's doorstep. Japanese leadership had no illusions that, somehow, they would be able to hold onto their Asian conquests. So, no, the Soviet entry into the war isn't what compelled Japan to surrender. Additionally, the Soviet conquest of Manchuria and Korea was immaterial to saving Japan from total catastrophe.

Thank GOD the Japanese emperor had enough sense, power and, perhaps, enough will to try and survive. Otherwise, it would have been necessary to burn every inch of Japan to the ground. No doubt, MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Japanese would have starved to death and died of disease, in addition to the millions that would have died fighting the U.S.
 

Vandalshandle

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
20,870
Reaction score
3,779
Points
290
Location
Southern AZ
...more revisionist history by people who never lived it, or probably did not even know anyone who did...
 

Vandalshandle

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
20,870
Reaction score
3,779
Points
290
Location
Southern AZ
The best American value is that many Americans didn't die in the invasion of Japan.
Yeah...mass murder civilians of a defenseless nation ready to surrender, based on inaccurate information.

Ike said don’t drop those bombs. Admiral Leahy said don’t drop those bombs.
Ike did not even KNOW about the bombs....
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
89,060
Reaction score
7,583
Points
1,815
...more revisionist history by people who never lived it, or probably did not even know anyone who did...

Unless you’re almost 100 years old, you can tuck that back up from where you got it.
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
89,060
Reaction score
7,583
Points
1,815

Vandalshandle

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
20,870
Reaction score
3,779
Points
290
Location
Southern AZ
...more revisionist history by people who never lived it, or probably did not even know anyone who did...

Unless you’re almost 100 years old, you can tuck that back up from where you got it.
I was alive when the bombs were dropped. More importantly, so was my step father who was at Okinawa, waiting to be sent to Japan proper to die in the invasion. I have absolutely no problem with him being shipped home, instead.
 

Vandalshandle

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
20,870
Reaction score
3,779
Points
290
Location
Southern AZ
The best American value is that many Americans didn't die in the invasion of Japan.
Yeah...mass murder civilians of a defenseless nation ready to surrender, based on inaccurate information.

Ike said don’t drop those bombs. Admiral Leahy said don’t drop those bombs.
Ike did not even KNOW about the bombs....

That’s not what he said.
Oh, I see. Ike said not to drop the bombs that he didn't know about.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top