Zone1 The Ten Commandments don't apply to us.

[frigidweirdo]

Answering specific questions isn't cherry picking.

"Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position. Cherry picking may be committed intentionally or unintentionally."

On the contrary you have 'cherry picked' your arguments in the form of "yabut" questions.

It is if your answer focuses on one thing, and refuses to acknowledge something else.

If you ignore the storms in the Noah's Ark story, just so the Ark doesn't need to be a boat that can deal with a storm, because you think then the boat's dimension could be real because of it/

You're trying to make the story fit, when clearly it doesn't.

I haven't cherry picked anything.

My argument is that Christians cherry pick, and I've found plenty of examples. That Irish lass or whatever her name is just stopped talking because she was cherry picking like crazy.

What cherry picking have I done? I don't believe the Noah's Ark story is true, but I'm going with what's written in the Bible and the facts around the SS Wyoming. Also the facts of how many species there, the fact that the Bible says two of every creature, which is about 2 million different species, many of them being FISH.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The narrative doesn't support a "storm".

It supports a storm far, far, far more than what you've said.

Floods and storms have ALWAYS gone hand in hand. And when people say "the heavens opened" it means, it's ******* shitting it down with rain.

What do you have? Nothing other than "I don't think...."

 

[frigidweirdo]

Interesting thought.

A miracle

Miracle - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

"A miracle is an amazing, beneficial event that goes (or at least seems to go) against natural laws."

So, it has to be something that isn't a natural law.

Imagine writing a fantasy novel, and you have magic. But everyone can do magic. Then all of a sudden magic isn't magic because it's normal, it's the rules of the universe.

Anything that happens naturally is not a miracle. A miracle, by its very definition, defies the laws of nature.

 

[Woodznutz]

A miracle

Miracle - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

"A miracle is an amazing, beneficial event that goes (or at least seems to go) against natural laws."

So, it has to be something that isn't a natural law.

Imagine writing a fantasy novel, and you have magic. But everyone can do magic. Then all of a sudden magic isn't magic because it's normal, it's the rules of the universe.

Anything that happens naturally is not a miracle. A miracle, by its very definition, defies the laws of nature.

The laws of nature were created at the same time, another miracle, so that definition doesn't work. Even "supernatural" doesn't work as prior to the creation there was no "natural".

 

[frigidweirdo]

Fish breath through their gills, not their nostrils. Only creatures that breathed through their nostrils were taken onto the ark.

So when the Bible said: Genesis 6:17 "Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die."

"19 Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood."

"20 Pairs of every kind of bird, and every kind of animal, and every kind of small animal that scurries along the ground, will come to you to be kept alive. "

Which bit excludes fish?

From 17 to 21, God is giving instructions, and not one of these instructions said "on don't be a daft ******, don't bring fish".

I said people cherry picked. This is what this says in this part. God told him to take fish.

 

[Woodznutz]

It supports a storm far, far, far more than what you've said.

Floods and storms have ALWAYS gone hand in hand. And when people say "the heavens opened" it means, it's ******* shitting it down with rain.

What do you have? Nothing other than "I don't think...."

I covered that already. "Opening the windows of heaven" simply means rainfall. Nowhere is a violent storm suggested. And, as the flood came in like the tide there was no storm involved either.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The laws of nature were created at the same time, another miracle, so that definition doesn't work. Even "supernatural" doesn't work as prior to the creation there was no "natural".

No. That's not what a miracle is. Were the laws of nature ever created? Perhaps the laws of nature have ALWAYS existed.

Can you show me any evidence that the laws of nature were ever created?

Can you show me a time when nothing ever existed? Can you prove any of this? Or are you just making it up?

 

[Woodznutz]

So when the Bible said: Genesis 6:17 "Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die."

"19 Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood."

"20 Pairs of every kind of bird, and every kind of animal, and every kind of small animal that scurries along the ground, will come to you to be kept alive. "

Which bit excludes fish?

From 17 to 21, God is giving instructions, and not one of these instructions said "on don't be a daft ******, don't bring fish".

I said people cherry picked. This is what this says in this part. God told him to take fish.

You are cherry picking. Only animals "in whose nostrils are the breath of life" died. Fish breath through their gills. Their nostrils are only used to smell out food. Also, it is unlikely that fish were corrupted by practices of man, only land animals and the land itself. Land animal died as their habitat was destroyed. The habitat of fish wasn't destroyed.

 

[Woodznutz]

No. That's not what a miracle is. Were the laws of nature ever created? Perhaps the laws of nature have ALWAYS existed.

Can you show me any evidence that the laws of nature were ever created?

Can you show me a time when nothing ever existed? Can you prove any of this? Or are you just making it up?

I believe what the bible says, that all things were made of things that we cannot detect. Of course that means spirit.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I covered that already. "Opening the windows of heaven" simply means rainfall. Nowhere is a violent storm suggested. And, as the flood came in like the tide there was no storm involved either.

Yes, you covered it And.... I called you out on it then, and now you say "when have I ever cherry picked?" and now I'm showing you again, and you're cherry picking again.

No, it does not "simple mean rainfall".

There are expressions in English.

the heavens opened | meaning of the heavens opened in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English | LDOCE

the heavens opened meaning, definition, what is the heavens opened: it started to rain heavily: Learn more.

www.ldoceonline.com

"the heavens opened

literary it started to rain heavily"

Now perhaps you have access to the earliest copy of this part of the Bible, I went looking, and it's not in the Dead Sea scrolls, and it's not in any of the earliest Bibles.

The Noah's Ark story, if I'm not wrong, was written in Hebrew.

Genesis 7:11 Hebrew Text Analysis

Here's the Hebrew

And Google translate says it's "and the windows of heaven opened".

We have Genesis 8:2

"The underground waters stopped flowing, and the torrential rains from the sky were stopped." (NLT)

Or from the 1599 Geneva Bible:

"The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained."

Which basically says that the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain stopped. Because the windows of heaven opening were God throwing a load water down at people in the form of rain.

What are the windows of heaven (Genesis 7:11)? | GotQuestions.org

What are the windows of heaven? What is the meaning of Genesis 7:11? Are there really windows in heaven?

www.gotquestions.org

"The “fountains of the great deep” and “windows of heaven” are metaphors for underground springs gushing up with water and sudden torrential rains falling from above as if floodgates in the sky had opened. "

You haven't show it to be any other way. You just say it isn't.

 

[Woodznutz]

So when the Bible said: Genesis 6:17 "Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die."

"19 Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood."

"20 Pairs of every kind of bird, and every kind of animal, and every kind of small animal that scurries along the ground, will come to you to be kept alive. "

Which bit excludes fish?

From 17 to 21, God is giving instructions, and not one of these instructions said "on don't be a daft ******, don't bring fish".

I said people cherry picked. This is what this says in this part. God told him to take fish.

Earth = dry land (Hebrew).

 

[Woodznutz]

"The “fountains of the great deep” and “windows of heaven” are metaphors for underground springs gushing up with water and sudden torrential rains falling from above as if floodgates in the sky had opened. "

You haven't show it to be any other way. You just say it isn't.

Malachi 3:10 KJV
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

The narrative doesn't support the concept of 'underground springs'. The 'fountains of the deep' refer to the oceanic crusts being in upheaval.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You are cherry picking. Only animals "in whose nostrils are the breath of life" died. Fish breath through their gills. Their nostrils are only used to smell out food. Also, it is unlikely that fish were corrupted by practices of man, only land animals and the land itself. Land animal died as their habitat was destroyed. The habitat of fish wasn't destroyed.

I'm not. I acknowledge that in other parts of the Bible it says other things. But my argument doesn't need there to be consistency. For my argument, the contradictions in the Bible just make it easier.

The first part of the Bible says all creatures. Shall we go through the contradictions?

Genesis 6

"And I, behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life under heaven: all that is in the earth shall perish." (1599 GNV)

"And of every living thing of all flesh two of every sort shalt thou cause to come into the Ark, to keep them alive with thee: they shall be male and female."

"Of the fowls, after their kind, and of the cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, that thou mayest keep them alive."

So here he's saying all creatures.

Genesis 7

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: but of unclean beasts by couples, the male and his female."

"Of the fowls also of the heaven by sevens, male and female, to keep seed alive upon the whole earth."

"There came two and two unto Noah into the Ark, male and female, as God had commanded Noah."

"And they entering in, came male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in."

So, he's gone from two of each, to some sevens and others couples. Huh? What a contradiction, unless they were for food. But he's saying sevens for fowl in order to seed the earth. That's weird. Unless seed is food. Then said two and two. Well, that's four.

But does say "all flesh", and fish HAVE FLESH.

Genesis 8
"Bring forth with thee every beast that is with thee, of all flesh, both fowl and cattle, and everything that creepeth and moveth upon the earth, that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and bring forth fruit and increase upon the earth."

So, talking only about fowl and cattle and things that creep and move. So not fish any more.

"Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, all that moveth upon the earth, after their kinds, went out of the Ark."

How do you cope with such contradictions? You have to cherry pick, because it's so obviously not true

 

[frigidweirdo]

Earth = dry land (Hebrew).

I mean, I'm getting בָּאָ֑רֶץ as "in the land"

Not really surprising. They probably didn't know the Earth was round, they knew nothing of the Americas, or Far East Asia, Australia, the Pacific etc.

They'd call it as they'd see it. Their world was much smaller.

But I'm not finding "dry land", but just "land".

Genesis 6:19 Hebrew Text Analysis

And from every living thing from all flesh two of every kind you shall bring.

Nothing about land here. Just anything that's living.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'm not. I acknowledge that in other parts of the Bible it says other things. But my argument doesn't need there to be consistency. For my argument, the contradictions in the Bible just make it easier.

The first part of the Bible says all creatures. Shall we go through the contradictions?

Genesis 6

"And I, behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life under heaven: all that is in the earth shall perish." (1599 GNV)

"And of every living thing of all flesh two of every sort shalt thou cause to come into the Ark, to keep them alive with thee: they shall be male and female."

"Of the fowls, after their kind, and of the cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, that thou mayest keep them alive."

So here he's saying all creatures.

Genesis 7

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: but of unclean beasts by couples, the male and his female."

"Of the fowls also of the heaven by sevens, male and female, to keep seed alive upon the whole earth."

"There came two and two unto Noah into the Ark, male and female, as God had commanded Noah."

"And they entering in, came male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in."

So, he's gone from two of each, to some sevens and others couples. Huh? What a contradiction, unless they were for food. But he's saying sevens for fowl in order to seed the earth. That's weird. Unless seed is food. Then said two and two. Well, that's four.

But does say "all flesh", and fish HAVE FLESH.

Genesis 8
"Bring forth with thee every beast that is with thee, of all flesh, both fowl and cattle, and everything that creepeth and moveth upon the earth, that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and bring forth fruit and increase upon the earth."

So, talking only about fowl and cattle and things that creep and move. So not fish any more.

"Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, all that moveth upon the earth, after their kinds, went out of the Ark."

How do you cope with such contradictions? You have to cherry pick, because it's so obviously not true

Sorry, I don't see any contradictions. It is clear that only land creatures were affected by the flood.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Malachi 3:10 KJV
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

The narrative doesn't support the concept of 'underground springs'. The 'fountains of the deep' refer to the oceanic crusts being in upheaval.

In the source that I presented there seem to be two different ways of talking about "the window of heaven".

One is for a deluge of blessing, the other for rain. Either way, it's coming in abundance.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Sorry, I don't see any contradictions. It is clear that only land creatures were affected by the flood.

And it's clear that God said "all creatures" which includes fish.

Just because you're cherry picking, doesn't mean... wait... my argument is that you're cherry picking and you try and prove you're not, by cherry picking. Hilarious.

 

[Woodznutz]

In the source that I presented there seem to be two different ways of talking about "the window of heaven".

One is for a deluge of blessing, the other for rain. Either way, it's coming in abundance.

In Malachi it is the abundance produced by rainfall.

 

[frigidweirdo]

In Malachi it is the abundance produced by rainfall.

You're going to need to explain that one to me, it doesn't make sense right now.

 

[Woodznutz]

In the source that I presented there seem to be two different ways of talking about "the window of heaven".

One is for a deluge of blessing, the other for rain. Either way, it's coming in abundance.

Regardless of how hard it rained there was no "storm" that threatened the integrity of the ark.