Zone1 The Remnant Of Israel

[EdwinAMartin]

One can pick & choose their way through The "Canonized Scriptures" to uphold many widely different & heretical religions.

Yes, and you certainly focus on that. I just go by what is actually said in the books and don't misrepresent what others actually say, which is apparently the standard SOP for the butthurt and ignorant.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

I have to ask,....... What is The Name of Your Fabricated God?

Well, you're making up other stuff, so just make one up and beat on that one. You're talking to yourself already anyway.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

You people do know there are a lot of prophecies that didn't come true, right?

And in any case Jesus was a reformer, and wanted to end the entire 'Temple State' scam and replace it. He knew the TEmple was going to be destroyed, so it 's more than just a little crazy to believe he was supporting it.

 

[Parker21]

Who says? You?

Quantrill

Jesus says-Matt 23:38,39

 

[Parker21]

Jesus corrected and expanded the then Judaism.

To this day Judaism rejects Jesus as the Messiah, thus remain cut off. Jesus started a Christian religion.

 

[Parker21]

Israel is still the chosen people, nation, of God. Jesus didn't start a 'new religion'. Jesus came in fulfillment of the Old Testament promises to set up the Kingdom of which Israel is the leading nation. And He, Jesus, being the King of Israel would/will rule over the world.

All of that is still in play. But due to Israel's rejection/crucifixion of their Messiah, God's purpose for Israel has been set aside temporarily. And His purpose for the salvation of Gentiles is being accomplished in the earth, bringing both Jew and Gentile into the Church, the Body of Christ. (Rom. 11:25) "...blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Once the fullness, that number of Gentiles, is reached, God once again begins working with Israel, picking up where He left off at Christ's rejection.

Thus the Church, Christianity. is not a new religion. It is the worship of the same God, the God of Israel. Just like the worship of God by Abraham, before Israel, didn't make Israel under the Law a new religion.

Quantrill

They saw the new religion-Acts 24:5-Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen, these serve the same God Israel serves-YHWH(Jehovah) and accept Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[jacksonlamb]

To this day Judaism rejects Jesus as the Messiah, thus remain cut off. Jesus started a Christian religion.

Christianity is a stepsister of Judaism. Islam is a misbegotten child of both.

 

[Quantrill]

Jesus says-Matt 23:38,39

Show me where Jesus started a new religion?

(Matt. 23:38) "Behold, your house is left unto your desolate."

(Matt. 23:39) "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Nothing here denotes a 'new religion'. Jesus says you err in the true religion. You shall not receive the benefits of the true religion until you receive Me.

Jesus didn't bring a 'new religion'. Israel rejected the true religion. Thus a new 'body of believers' make up the true religion at this time. (Rom. 11:25) "...until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

They saw the new religion-Acts 24:5-Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen, these serve the same God Israel serves-YHWH(Jehovah) and accept Jesus as the Messiah.

The Church is not 'spiritual Israel'. The Church is a new body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile, to worship and serve the God of Israel.

Israel was not serving the God of Israel, that was the problem. The Church is serving the God of Israel. Not as a new religion but as the true religion. If Israel had been obedient then she too would be serving God as the Church now serves God.

(Rom. 11:25) "...blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Though the Church is a different body of believers, it is not a new religion. It is the worship of the same True God that Israel had worshipped.

In the Millennium all of Israel will worship Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Is that a new religion? No! It is always the worship of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Quantrill

 

[jacksonlamb]

Jesus, if I remember right, died as a Jew worshipping in His religion as a Jew.

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(97):

Ezra and the remnant had been given tremendous support by the decree of king Artaxerxes. (Ezra 7:11-26) Which caused Ezra to voice his praise to God. Of course he was thankful to the king, but he knew why the king had done it. God.

(Ezra 7:27-28) "Blessed be the LORD God of our fathers, which hath put such a thing as this in the king's heart, to beautify the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem...And I was strengthened as the hand of the LORD my God was upon me, and I gathered together out of Israel chief men to go up with me."

In (Ezra 8:1-14) the list of these men and their families are given. And if you go back and compare this with the list given in (Ezra 2:3-15) of the first group under Zerubbabel you will find many of the same families names. This shows the division of the families that took place with some not going. No doubt it would have been a sad time. But now, under Ezra's return, many would be reunited. But there was some 75 years between the return under Zerubbabel and that of Ezra. It would be many of the same family, but not many of the same persons. And under Ezra's return, not all would return either. Choosing to stay in Babylon under Persian rule.

As the remnant now journeyed toward Jerusalem, they made a three day stop. (Ezra 8:15) "And I gathered them together to the river that runneth to Ahava; and there abode we in tents three days: and I viewed the people, and the priests, and found there none of the sons of Levi."

This is a problem.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Many Levites had gone with Zerubbabel on the first return, which was a larger number of Jews, about 50,000. (Ezra 2:40) (2:70) (3:9) 3:10) (3:12) With Ezra there was probably no more than 5,000. Though a smaller number, there still is the need for more priests and Levites. The work they do in the service of the Temple was labor intensive. They didn't want to add 5,000 more people without adding some Levites and priests also.

The tribe of Levi was especially chosen by God to help alongside the priests the services of the Temple. (Deut. 10:8-9) "At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day.""

(Deut. 18:1-2) "The priests, the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance. Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance."

(Deut. 33:8-10) "And of Levi he said....They shall teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law: They shall put incense before thee, and whole burnt sacrifices upon thine altar."

Later concerning the land divisions for the tribes of Israel that Moses initiated and Joshua fulfilled, it says: (Joshua 13:33) "But unto the tribe of Levi Moses gave not any inheritance: the LORD God of Israel was their inheritance as he said unto them.

At first one might think that was quite an exalted position for Levi to have that special relation to the LORD. And, it was. But in the captivity, there was no Temple just captivity. And the Levites did just like all the rest trying to eek out a living however they could under their new conditions in a foreign land. They would have homes and jobs and acquire things for their wives and children to inherit. And the captivity was long. These Levites had never saw the Temple or Jerusalem. They were born in Babylon and now under Persian rule.

For the Levite to go back to Jerusalem he would lose any inheritance he had gained in Babylon/Persia. And when he got to the land, he would then receive no inheritance with Israel. Only the promise that God was his inheritance. And, he would then be working very hard in the Temple, something all of them would have to learn to do. And their work would be important to follow to the 'T'. So, it's not surprising that no Levites were at first with Ezra. To many, it was too much to ask.

It is surprising that so many went with Zerubbabel on the first return. But they did. Those of the remnant, especially the Levites were exercising great faith in the LORD.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Ezra needed Levites. (Ezra 8:16) "Then sent I for Elizer, for Ariel, for Shemaiah, and for Elnathan, and for Jarib, and for Elnathan, and for Nathan, and for Zechariah, and for Meshullam, chief men; also for Joiarib, and for Elnathan, men of understanding."

The need was great. And known leaders were called, men who had understanding of the ways of God. (Ezra 8:17) "And I sent them with commandment unto Iddo the chief at the place Casiphia, and I told them what they should say unto Iddo, and his brethren the Nethinims, at the place Casiphia, that they should bring unto us ministers for the house of our God."

The place called 'Casiphia' is not known today. But couldn't have been far, and it would be between Babylon and Jerusalem along the way. But Ezra knew of it. He knew where to go to find ministers for the Temple. And he knew who Iddo was and that he was the leader there. It's tempting to say this is Iddo the prophet, the grand father of Zechariah the prophet. (Zechariah 1:1) "...Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet...." Especially so when you see the name Zechariah in (Ezra 8:16). But, these were common names and most do not consider this 'Iddo' in (Ezra 8:17) and the Zechariah in (Ezra 8:16) as the prophets. Just can't know for sure. But both were chief men and leaders in the remnant.

And it states in (Ezra 8:17) that Ezra was explicit for these men as to what to tell Iddo concerning their need. And Iddo was faithful to respond. (Ezra 8:18) "And by the good hand of our God upon us, they brought us a man of understanding, of the sons of Mahli, the son of Levi, the son of Israel; and Sherebiah, with his sons and his brethren, eighteen. And Hashabiah, and with Jeshaiah of the sons of Merari, his brethren and their sons, twenty;" So 38 Levites were sent.

But, (Ezra 8:20) "Also of the Nethinims, whom David and the princes had appointed for the service of the Levites, two hundred and twenty Nethinims; all of them were expressed by name." These Nethinims are always listed as servants to the Levites in the ministries of the Temple. And they were faithful in their work. And this Iddo was one of them. (8:16) "....say unto Iddo, and to his brethren the Nethinims...." Ezra recognized that the Nethinims were a legitimate addition to the service of the Temple, and there were much more of them in the remnant than of Levi.

So, all toll, 258 ministers for the Temple were added to Ezra's group.

Quantrill

 

[Parker21]

Christianity is a stepsister of Judaism. Islam is a misbegotten child of both.

The one real Christian religion serves the God Israel served=YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God. The ones claiming to be Christian serving a trinity are being mislead-its FACT.

 

[Parker21]

Show me where Jesus started a new religion?

(Matt. 23:38) "Behold, your house is left unto your desolate."

(Matt. 23:39) "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Nothing here denotes a 'new religion'. Jesus says you err in the true religion. You shall not receive the benefits of the true religion until you receive Me.

Jesus didn't bring a 'new religion'. Israel rejected the true religion. Thus a new 'body of believers' make up the true religion at this time. (Rom. 11:25) "...until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Quantrill

Acts 24:5- a spearhead of the sect(religion) of the Nazarene.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

The Babylonians rejected and disenfranchised the majority of Jews from any role in the Persian Temple State they set up, which set in motion their intellectual and moral decline as a group. They fabricated a 'canon', completed by 200 B.C., fought a couple of civil wars, forced conversions on several outside cities, and ultimately the Romans destroyed their state. The Christian Jewish sect went on to grow and carry on the universal message that originated with Abraham and Moses, while the Pharisee survivors of Bar Kokhba degenerated into a racist self-obsessed insular cult. In the 18th Century Jewish intellectual trends broke out of that dead end and joined the rest of the world in science and literature and culture, and have been very successful at all of them, generating a lot of jealousy among inferior pagan cultures. No 'Third Temple', and no ultra-Orthodox craziness was or is necessary. Some Rabbis are no doubt getting woodies over creating some centralized tourist trap and cash cow like a 'Third Temple', but the fact is there is no point to one.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

Jesus, if I remember right, died as a Jew worshipping in His religion as a Jew.

He was a reformer; there were other sects breaking away from the Babylonian cult as well, it's just that modern 'Judaism' has always pretended they are they only 'real Jews' and have discriminated or murdered as many of the rest as they could get away with over the centuries. It has been dominated by a handful of wealthy families, many of them 'Court Jews' and hold most of the rest in bondage of one form or another. Modern times have allowed other groups of Jews to develop and grow from the Enlightenment on. Jews are again writing history and literature, being active in science and the arts, medicine, and politics, after many centuries of sulking in self-pity and self-inflicted problems, and of course a lot of pagans resent it. 'Left Wing' and 'Right Wing' loons have an 'issue' that unites them again.

 

[Quantrill]

Acts 24:5- a spearhead of the sect(religion) of the Nazarene.

(Acts 24:5) "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:"

So what? The unbelieving Jews declaring Christianity a sect means nothing. What do you expect? Jesus Christ said otherwise.

In post #(104) you quote Jesus to prove your point. Here are some quotes of Jesus.

(John 5:45-460 "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

(John 24:44) "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

How can Christianity be a new religion when Jesus comes in fulfillment of the Old Testament? Christianity, the worship of God and Jesus Christ is not a new religion. It is the one and only true religion as represented in the Bible.

Quantrill

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Yes, and you certainly focus on that. I just go by what is actually said in the books and don't misrepresent what others actually say, which is apparently the standard SOP for the butthurt and ignorant.

Can there possibly be an Honest, Truth Seeking Discussion here, unlike that which I attempted with Quantril, Edwin?

Specifically, with the Focus upon The Messiah/"Christ", & His Way,.....With the goal to be the spreading of His Word,.....

What have I "misrepresented"?

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(113):

Now, with Ezra and the remnant there is much wealth. In King Artaxerxes decree he gave much silver and gold to them. (Ezra 7:15) And, they were given much silver and gold from the priests and offerings from the people of Babylon. (Ezra 7:16)

A little later we see Ezra choosing 12 chief priests to make account of all the silver and gold they have. And they did. (Ezra 8:24-27). The amount they had would add up into millions of dollars today. They will be traveling with a lot of wealth to Jerusalem. They needed to know how much they have to see if any is lost or stolen along the way.

Ezra told the 12: (Ezra 8:28-29) "And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD, the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers. Watch ye, and keep them, until ye weigh them before the chief of the priests and the Levites, and of the fathers of Israel, at Jerusalem, in the chambers of the house of the LORD."

Not only are those of the remnant holy, sanctified, and separated unto God, but so is the wealth they carry holy unto God. And the remnant are accountable for that wealth. Thus the command to 'Watch ye'. (Ezra 8:29)

This is important because their journey will be fraught with danger. Some wild beasts for sure, but mostly from gangs of robbers. And with so much wealth known to be carried it will certainly get their attention. No doubt this weighed heavy on Ezra. Faith does not exempt one from feeling the dangers one encounters.

It was this concern that led Ezra to proclaim the three day fast at the river Ahava. (Ezra 8:21) "The I proclaimed a fast there, at the river Ahava, that we might afflict ourselves before our God, to seek of him a right way for us, and for our little ones, and for all our substance."

The King had displayed great generosity toward the remnant. Ezra could have easily asked for an armed escort. And there was no wrong in doing that. It would make a lot of sense. But, when Ezra first asked the King permission to go to Jerusalem, (Ezra 7:6), he put it in such a way that to ask now for a protective escort, would take away, not only from Ezra's faith, but from God's glory.

(Ezra 8:22) "For I was ashamed to require of the king a band of soldiers and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: because we had spoken unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him."

In other words, Ezra could see the king thinking, 'if your God is so powerful, why do you need my soldiers?' Ezra wasn't planning on putting he and God in this corner, but he felt he had. And this is the reason for the fast as the concern for the safety of the remnant and the wealth they were carrying. (Ezra 8:23) "So we fasted and besought our God for this: and he was intreated of us."

God heard them and was pleased with their fasting.

Quantrill