Zone1 The Remnant Of Israel

[EdwinAMartin]

Can there possibly be an Honest, Truth Seeking Discussion here, unlike that which I attempted with Quantril, Edwin?

Specifically, with the Focus upon The Messiah/"Christ", & His Way,.....With the goal to be the spreading of His Word,.....

What have I "misrepresented"?

So you just skip to something else whenever you feel like it? Okay.

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(120)

Ezra and the remnant put their faith in God and left on the trip of some 900 miles to Jerusalem without military escort, laden with much gold and silver. (Ezra 8:31) "Then we departed from the river of Ahava on the twelfth day of the first month, to go unto Jerusalem: and the hand of our God was upon us, and he delivered us from the hand of the enemy, and of such as lay in wait by the way."

Remember, though the remnant of Israel is returning to the land, this is not a return to the 'theocracy'. God's presence is not visibly seen as in the cloud by day and fire by night. See (Numbers 9:15-23). They are not carrying the Ark with them. And when they get to Jerusalem neither the glory of God, nor the Ark is there in the Temple, in the Holy of Holies.

God's people, Israel, are coming back to the land, and the worship of God is being restored which demands a Temple and sacrifices. But the return of God's glory and visible presence has not been restored...yet. Point being: Ezra and the remnant are exercising great faith in setting out on this journey trusting God alone.

And God was faithful. (Ezra 8:32) "And we came to Jerusalem, and abode there three days." Of all that is experienced in this long journey nothing is said here. The important thing is that God got them there safely. They rested up for three days and then delivered the gold and silver and vessels to the priests at the Temple. And all was accounted for. (Ezra 9:33-34)

(Ezra 8:35) "Also the children of those that had been carried away, which were out of the captivity, offered burnt-offerings unto the God of Israel...all this was a burnt-offering unto the LORD." These were children of those carried away in the captivity. By the time of this second return, all who had been carried away at the captivity were now gone. And these of the second return under Ezra, did as those of the first return under Zerubbabel. (Ezra 3:2-3) They offered sacrifice to God. This would be the first time these children of God offered sacrifice to God. There had to be a Temple and that Temple had to be in Jerusalem.

Then, they made sure all the local authorities knew of their presence and the decree of the king in supporting them. (Ezra 8:36) And they delivered the king's commissions unto the king's lieutenants, and to the governors on this side of the river: and they furthered the people, and the house of God."

This additional number of the people of God returning to the land furthered the help to the people already there, and to God's purpose for them being there.

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Dates are important in history. They help clarify the importance of certain events. And in the case of the history of Israel, they help clarify, and emphasize spiritual conditions of God's people. Great faith has been displayed, as we have seen in the return of the remnant under Zerubbabel, (538 B.C.), the temple finished, (515) B.C.), the return under Ezra, (458 B.C.). All of this only in the course of some 80 years.

But, God is faithful to represent also the folly and sins of His people. And that in so short a period of time. We know from (Ezra 7:8) and (Ezra 10:9) that Ezra had been in Jerusalem now only about 5 months. (7:8) "on the first day of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem". (10:9) "it was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month, and all the people sat in the street of the house of God".

No doubt Ezra had already been busy teaching and doing the law of the LORD as he said he would in (Ezra 7:10). Then some came bearing news that absolutely devastated him. (Ezra 9:1-2) "Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass."

In only 80 years, from the time of the 1st return under Zerubbabel and the time of the 2nd return under Ezra, Israel was sinning the same sins that caused the original 70 year captivity by God. It's very possible that Ezra had been teaching this important point of 'separation from the foreigners', as that would be of extreme importance with them back in the land. And that may well have caused some to come and reveal to him the sad news.

Ezra's response: (Ezra 9:3) "And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and my beard, and sat down astonied." No doubt Ezra had great expectations of what God was going to do with the Temple now built and he teaching the Law of the LORD. Expecting how God was going to use His people, Israel, once again. Only to have this thrown in his face.

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This has always been a tactic and effort of Satan since (Gen. 3:15). God told Satan, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Thus, Satan's attempt to pollute the seed line from whom will come the Messiah. (Gen. 6:1-3) "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

It doesn't matter if you consider this a mixing of the angelic race with the human, or the mixing of Seth's line with Cain's line. The point remains it was an attempt to mix the holy seed with those who were not. Strange isn't it. Satan believes the Word of God. And he does what he can to prevent it. Causing God to bring the flood and destroy all mankind but 8 souls.

And again, after God created the nation of Israel and they are marching through the wilderness, they encountered the people of Moab. (Numbers 25:1-2) "And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods." This mixing of the holy race with the foreign race resulted in Israel moving to worship the foreign gods. (Numbers 25:3) "And Israel joined himself unto Baal-peor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel."

(Numbers 25:4-5) "And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baal-peor.

And it was at this time that Ezra's distant relative Phinehas killed the whoring Israelite and Midianite woman which turned away the wrath of God. (Num. 25:7-13) And Phinehas blood would flow in Ezra, and his spirit. He would know and remember this.

Then after some time of law giving, and preparing for the next generation to enter the promised land, and pronouncing the changing of the guard from Moses to Joshua, (Num. 25-30), God orders Moses to make war with Midian. (Num. 31:7-8) "And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. And they slew the kings of Midan..."

But, (Ezra 31:9) "And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones...." And when Moses found out, he was angered. (Num. 31:16-17) "Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit tespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

The counsel of Balaam taught this tactic to the enemy of Israel. Balaam was an erring prophet of God. Hard to believe, but that is what it says. But is it any harder to believe that the leaders of the remnant, the priests and rulers, were the main ones guilty of mingling the holy seed with foreigners? (Ezra 9:2) Baalim would die for his sins. (Num. 31:8)

And later David's son Solomon would commit the same sin, causing the splitting of the nation Israel, and eventually the 70 year captivity. See again, (1 Kings 11:1-33) Foreign women through sex and mixing with the chosen race would turn the people of God against Him, and they would serve another. An old but successful tactic.

And now the remnant falls prey once again. Made Ezra pull his hair out.

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[Parker21]

(Acts 24:5) "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:"

So what? The unbelieving Jews declaring Christianity a sect means nothing. What do you expect? Jesus Christ said otherwise.

In post #(104) you quote Jesus to prove your point. Here are some quotes of Jesus.

(John 5:45-460 "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

(John 24:44) "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

How can Christianity be a new religion when Jesus comes in fulfillment of the Old Testament? Christianity, the worship of God and Jesus Christ is not a new religion. It is the one and only true religion as represented in the Bible.

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They are spiritual Israel=the real Christian religion=1

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(124):

No doubt it was those who first returned with Zerubbabel that were sinning against God in not separating from the foreigners in the land, and worshipping their gods. As said, Ezra's group had only been there for 5 months. These people in the 'land' are foreigners because they are not of the remnant, not of Israel, not of God. And it was probably members of Ezra's group who reported this condition of the remnant as they were learning of it.

The sin of Achan in the early days when Israel was being led by Joshua into the promised land, brings up an interesting point here. In coming against Jericho Israel was not to take any spoil for themselves. All was for the LORD. (Josh 6:18-19) But Achan did and hid it in his tent after the victory at Jericho. No one knew...except God.

At the next battle with Ai, a smaller foe, Israel was defeated. Joshua was perplexed why God would let them be defeated. Read all of (Joshua 7) (Joshua 7:1) begins, "But the children of Israel committed a trespass in the accursed thing for Achan. And God said to Joshua, (Joshua 7:11) "Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...."

God views Israel as a national body of His people. When one sins in Israel, Israel has sinned. And all of Israel is affected. And so Israel was defeated at its next military battle. This is that special relationship being a 'theocracy'. One sin will affect the whole body. And God deals with it. Achan lost both his life and his whole family's lives. (Josh 7:24-26) God is making the point, if you allow sin to exist in Israel, it will eventually spread throughout Israel. And so it had now with the remnant returning from Babylon.

So, we know: 1.) Ezra has the support of God in Scripture to judge harshly this sin of the remnant. 2.) Ezra has the authority of King Artaxerxes to judge however he sees fit...even to death. 3.) Ezra's lineage to Phinehas means he is quite capable of exercising harshly.

But at this time all Ezra can do is pray. He is too down hearted to do anything but pray. He grieves for the sin of the remnant against God. Read all (Ezra 9:5-15). Note these phrases in his prayer.

(Ezra 9:6) "...our iniquities...our trespass...."

(Ezra 9:7) "...for our iniquities...."

(Ezra 9:10) "....for we have forsaken thy commandments..."

(Ezra 9:14) "Should we again break thy commandments...."

(Ezra 9:15) "...for we remain yet escaped"

(Ezra 9:15) "...we are before thee in our trespass

(Ezra 9:15) "...we cannot stand before thee...."

Ezra is not saying these or they have sinned against you. He is saying we have sinned against you. Ezra identifies with Israel in their sin against God. He didn't commit this sin, but he identifies with Israel in their sin. Just like with Achan, only he sinned, yet all Israel paid for that sin.

And Ezra is confessing Israel's sin before God. I want to say, Ezra is interceding for Israel before God. But really, he isn't. All he is saying in his grief before God is that 'we are guilty'. And God knows Ezra sees it as He sees it.

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Because Ezra was at the Temple pouring out his grief and prayer to God, he was seen by many. (Ezra 9:5). And as a result many joined him.

(Ezra 10:1) "Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore."

Ezra's grief is real. It goes to his very soul and spirit. He cannot be consoled. And though it's because of Israel's sin, I believe another factor is in play. Remember, Ezra knows the Scripture. (Ezra 7:6) He is a teacher of the Scriptures.

The result of the people of God mixing with the world in marriages led to their worshipping the worlds gods. And we saw that when the people of God did this, God's remedy was severe. Death. He killed all but 8 souls in the flood of Noah's day. (Gen. 7:23) Moses had men, women, and children killed due Israel mixing with the Moabites and Midianites. (Num. 25:1-3) (Num. 25:4-5) And remember that Ezra's own blood, Phinehas, was rewarded by God for slaying the guilty Israelite man and the Midianite woman for their whoredoms. (Num. 25:7-14) Thousands, if not millions died because of Solomons mixing with foreign women. (1 Kings 11:39)

And now Ezra is faced with the remnant guilty of the same. And he is in the main leadership role, just as Moses was. What was he going to do. He knew God's solution in the matter. He had the authority of the King Artaxerxes to exercise whatever judgement he saw necessary, even death. (Ezra 7:26)

I believe this weighed upon him terribly and added considerably to his grief.

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You might say...'Ezra is out of it'. His grief has rendered him unable to make the decision he knows he should make. Then one in the company that joined him, I believe, recognizes this and knows he must act.

(Ezra 10:2) "And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing."

I believe Shechaniah knew what Ezra was thinking and fighting with. Thus he is saying, there is another way. There is hope out of this. And he offers the suggestion.

(Ezra 10:3) "Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God: and let it be done according to the law."

This is a sever action for sure. But, it is a 'hope' concerning what Ezra could do, which is kill all who were guilty and their children born to them. Those who refused to separate from the foreigners now are going to be forced to separate, according to Shechaniah's suggestion. Separation will be accomplished, just not by death.

Shechaniah then says, which to me reads in a chastising tone, (Ezra 10:4) "Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it." In other words, 'Ezra you're the leader, act like it. Man up and do what needs to be done'.

And Ezra saw the opportunity and took it. (Ezra 10:5) "Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware."

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Just as Ezra was quick to endorse Shechaniah's suggestion, so he was also quick to leave the group and go to another's place and continue in his mourning and fasting. (Ezra 10:6) "Then Ezra rose up from before the house of God, and went into the chamber of Johanan the son of Eliashib: and when he came thither, he did eat no bread, nor drink water: for he mourned because of the transgression of them that had been carried away. " Emphasis on 'them that had been carried away'. For the sin that carried them away was the sin they were now also guilty of.

I cannot help but wonder if Ezra had doubts about the decision he just made. Ezra was right in his grieving over the sins of the people. But was he right in endorsing the remedy offered by Shechaniah? He would have been right before God in killing all the guilty and the children they bore. It had always been God's remedy. I think he was quick to endorse Shechaniah's remedy because he dreaded the thought of what he should do. Which is why he was quick to leave the group. It was their remedy, they can work out the details. But, that is just my opinion.

And the group worked out the details. (Ezra 10:7-8) "And they made proclamation throughout Judah, and Jerusalem unto all the children of the captivity, that they should gather themselves together unto Jerusalem; And that whosoever would not come within three days, according to the counsel of the princes and the elders, all his substance should be forfeited, and himself separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away."

Can you imagine the dread and anxiety all of the remnant must have felt upon hearing this proclamation? For, by this time all would know that something was up concerning their sins in not separating from the foreigners and their worshipping other gods. For the princes who first informed Ezra of these sins, (Ezra 9:1), would have found out only by observation and asking questions. Which would in turn spread like wildfire among the guilty remnant. Who were many. (Ezra 10:13) "...for we are many that have transgressed in this thing."

And now a proclamation ordering all to Jerusalem. They may have known the subject matter, but they didn't know what would be the judgment. They know they are guilty. They know they have to present themselves to their leaders in Jerusalem. They know what God has done in the past for these sins they have committed. Their lives were on the line.

(Ezra 10:9) Then all the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered themselves together unto Jerusalem within three days. It was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month, and all the people sat in the street of the house of God, trembling because of this matter, and for the great rain."

Sitting in fear for what was coming, and then it comes a down pour on top of that. What a picture.

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By this time Ezra had gotten himself together and stood up before the people and charged them with their sins. But he only mentions their taking of strange wives. (Ezra 10:10) Which was of course the root of their sin, but it led to them committing the abominations of the people of the land also. (Ezra 9:1-2) Of which no mention is made. Why?

Their judgment was to confess this sin of taking strange wives and separate from them. (Ezra 10:11-12) Which of course they agreed to do. No kidding. I'm sure they breathed a sigh of relief. And then they got confident and said this thing couldn't be done in a hurry and should be done by our own rulers and priests in our local cities. (Ezra 10:13-16) And so they did. It would take about 3 months to finish it. (Ezra 10:9) (Ezra 10:17)

Attention was given to those priests who were guilty. (Ezra 10:18-19) And they promised to put away their wives and offered a ram as a sacrifice. The book of Ezra closes with (Ezra 10:44) "All of these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children." Yet we are not told what happened to the children. In (Ezra 10:3) Shechaniah originally said, let those born of these foreign wives be separated and put away also. But Ezra didn't mention them in (10:11). Nothing more is said if that took place. Perhaps we can assume it did, but did it?

Everything seems watered down to me. It doesn't appear to take on the importance it should. The penalty doesn't match the grief that Ezra felt. The priests got a divorce and offered a ram. Ezra's authority appears to be compromised to me. A rubber stamp. The people could sway him. And the book ends abruptly. It makes me wonder just how true the guilty were to their promise.

But that's the end of the remnant under Ezra. And I am finished with this thread.

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