The Real Reasons for the Riots

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

Reparations in what form? Be specific, how would it work?

Cash, tuition, real estate, moratorium on taxes.

Cash. Back pay with interest for the wages denied the enslaved and the lower wages Blacks were paid for the same work afterwards up to and including the 90's

Tution. Free college tution for every Black person.

Real Estate. Return the land stolen from Blacks after Lincoln was killed and the lands stolen via ethnic cleansing in different parts all around this country.

Tax Moratorium. Blacks dont pay taxes for 20 years and no bullshit after that trying to recoup it.

Lets start with that. Repairing the wealth gap.

So it comes down to money. Who pays and who gets paid? Do black people who immigrated here in 1980 get paid? Does an Australian family that immigrated here in 1980 have to pay?

I agree that the wealth gap is an issue. I think it’s an issue for many races not just blacks. I’m having a very hard time understanding how your reparations program would realistically work. There are so many factors, it would be a giant mess

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair."

Thats exactly what I say about people getting their property destroyed in riots. Life isnt fair. At least you have insurance.

 

[Flopper]

It pains me to say this, but "we" now have a couple of generations of People of Color in this country who cannot understand why peace and prosperity do not come their way. They see the people on television, the professional athletes and entertainers, then look around themselves and look at their own lives and see...a rather unpleasant existence. But what they see is only half the picture. They don't see the work, the effort, the time, and the talents that, when combined, bring about the prosperity that they see in others. It is a puzzle to them.

And then something happens. Some Black Yoot is killed by the cops under circumstances where it appears that the killing was totally unjustified.

Now, statistically, this killing (regardless of which one(s) you are talking about) is statistically microscopic. For all practical purposes, it has no impact on anything or anyone that they know personally. And one might also note that there were about a dozen Black Yoots killed in Chicago last weekend. A typical - in fact a rather slow - weekend for killings in the Windy City. No protests, no riots, no nothing. Just "bid-ness" as usual.

So these lost generations JUMP ON the felonious killing of those isolated Black Yoots and scream: "This is why Black people can't succeed in this country! White people are all racists! They are holding us down!"

Which is statistical, logical, and factual nonsense. But it does, in their addled brains, provide an EXPLANATION of why their lives are not the same as the lives they focus on in their daily lives...the drug dealers, the professional athletes, the rappers, and the ubiquitous upper-middle-class "white people" on television. It gives them an excuse for the fact that they have not assimilated and not succeeded, and the future doesn't look the least bit promising to them.

Because of racism...which is manifested by these isolated. horrible killings.

And that's why they riot: To protest against the racism that - in their minds - is holding them back from the American Dream.

The American Dream, the idea that anyone can succeed through hard work, is one of the most enduring myths in this country. And one of its most prominent falsehoods. Generally, the American Dream is the belief that anybody, regardless of where they come from or what economic class they were born into, can, through sacrifice, risk-taking, and hard work, rather than by chance, achieve what they believe is success in a free society where upward mobility is possible for everybody. However, this is not America today. Hypothetically, anyone can succeed in America but your chances are many magnitudes better if you happen to be born into an upper class white family rather than a poor black family.

If you are truly an exceptional person born into a poor black family, attending a run down overcrowded school where teachers gave up the idea of teaching years ago, you can overcome these problems and the American Dream can be yours because you are exceptional; however, if you are not, then the American Dream is more likely to be the American Nightmare.

 

[daveman]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

The majority of people on welfare being white is because this is a majority white nation.

Thats not my problem. Thats the problem of you white people. Those are the facts that Broke cave chimp doesnt like to hear.

So, you have no response to the fact that 41 out of a hundred American blacks were on some sort of government assistance in the time covered by the report, while only 13 out of a hundred whites were.

Okay.

My response is that the majority of people on welfare are white and welfare was started for white people. I said that on the last page too.

And if you use absolute numbers of groups with varying amounts, absolute numbers are meaningless.

But I expect this has been explained to you before and you choose to pretend you have a valid point.

The Democrats are dry-fucking the black community in the ass, and you beg for more.

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you "

So why arent whites giving back the land their ancestors stole from Blacks?

Technically they would have to give land back to the native Americans if you want to really be fair. And as far as I know my family never stole land from blacks nor did they own slaves. Would I be expected to give away land? The property my grandfather bought after coming to this country with pennies in his pocket, getting blown up in a boat while serving our country, then scrapping by as a fisherman to feed his family and ultimate buy a house which is still in our family? Am I supposed to surrender that house to the government so they can then give it to a black family? Is that how you see this going?

 

[daveman]

It pains me to say this, but "we" now have a couple of generations of People of Color in this country who cannot understand why peace and prosperity do not come their way. They see the people on television, the professional athletes and entertainers, then look around themselves and look at their own lives and see...a rather unpleasant existence. But what they see is only half the picture. They don't see the work, the effort, the time, and the talents that, when combined, bring about the prosperity that they see in others. It is a puzzle to them.

And then something happens. Some Black Yoot is killed by the cops under circumstances where it appears that the killing was totally unjustified.

Now, statistically, this killing (regardless of which one(s) you are talking about) is statistically microscopic. For all practical purposes, it has no impact on anything or anyone that they know personally. And one might also note that there were about a dozen Black Yoots killed in Chicago last weekend. A typical - in fact a rather slow - weekend for killings in the Windy City. No protests, no riots, no nothing. Just "bid-ness" as usual.

So these lost generations JUMP ON the felonious killing of those isolated Black Yoots and scream: "This is why Black people can't succeed in this country! White people are all racists! They are holding us down!"

Which is statistical, logical, and factual nonsense. But it does, in their addled brains, provide an EXPLANATION of why their lives are not the same as the lives they focus on in their daily lives...the drug dealers, the professional athletes, the rappers, and the ubiquitous upper-middle-class "white people" on television. It gives them an excuse for the fact that they have not assimilated and not succeeded, and the future doesn't look the least bit promising to them.

Because of racism...which is manifested by these isolated. horrible killings.

And that's why they riot: To protest against the racism that - in their minds - is holding them back from the American Dream.

View attachment 343019

You need to be telling leftists that.

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair."

Thats exactly what I say about people getting their property destroyed in riots. Life isnt fair. At least you have insurance.

The people who destroy things in riots are still here and are the ones that broke the law. They should be punished. My grandfather who stole the necklace is dead, he can’t be punished. You don’t get the difference? Really??

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

Reparations in what form? Be specific, how would it work?

Cash, tuition, real estate, moratorium on taxes.

Cash. Back pay with interest for the wages denied the enslaved and the lower wages Blacks were paid for the same work afterwards up to and including the 90's

Tution. Free college tution for every Black person.

Real Estate. Return the land stolen from Blacks after Lincoln was killed and the lands stolen via ethnic cleansing in different parts all around this country.

Tax Moratorium. Blacks dont pay taxes for 20 years and no bullshit after that trying to recoup it.

Lets start with that. Repairing the wealth gap.

So it comes down to money. Who pays and who gets paid? Do black people who immigrated here in 1980 get paid? Does an Australian family that immigrated here in 1980 have to pay?

I agree that the wealth gap is an issue. I think it’s an issue for many races not just blacks. I’m having a very hard time understanding how your reparations program would realistically work. There are so many factors, it would be a giant mess

It always comes down to money with whites. Thats the only thing they value and the only thing that would provide a sense of loss.

The US pays just like they paid the Japanese. The descendants of the enslaved get paid. Obviously if your family immigrated after any financial loss due to racism you wouldnt get anything.

White people always have a hard time with reparations which is exactly what I pointed out would happen. You even made the same excuses most of them make. You claim it would be too hard or it would be a mess. What would be so hard about it and why would it be a mess?

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair."

Thats exactly what I say about people getting their property destroyed in riots. Life isnt fair. At least you have insurance.

The people who destroy things in riots are still here and are the ones that broke the law. They should be punished. My grandfather who stole the necklace is dead, he can’t be punished. You don’t get the difference? Really??

But you can repay the profit your grandfather made off of stealing that necklace or the punitive damages suffered as a result of that necklace being stolen.

 

[daveman]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

Maybe you should listen to Blacks-

Hey, USMB leftists -- what's the feminine term for "Uncle Tom"?

Angela Davis. Why do you ask?

Davis is a far leftist, not a Democratic Party escapee.

Who said she was a Dem party escapee you retard? Did you forget that your question was to leftists?

I can't really hold your hand and lead you through this. Social distancing, y'know.

The black woman in the Tweet depotoo posted is not pleased that her community is being exploited by Democrats for political power. If she were a man, she'd be called an "Uncle Tom". But she's a woman, so I asked leftists what the feminine equivalent of Uncle Tom is.

So you can dismiss what she says without having to think about it.

This is why white people shouldnt try to use Black lexicon. You dont even seem to know that Uncle Tom was a freedom fighter like Angela Davis. The term you are looking for is more likely Uncle Ruckus. You also dont seem to know that Blacks only vote for Dems because Repubs are more racist.

Uncle Tom, as used today, means "sellout". At least try to keep up.

Maybe to whites. You guys do tend to be about a decade behind with our lexicon.

As it turns out, you're wrong.

Top 5 Fox News Uncle Toms

CNN’s Keith Boykin calls African American Trump supporters at the White House ‘Uncle Toms’

Dems Join GOP to Muzzle Black Speech
Immunity Sought for Uncle Tom Behavior

Why African-Americans Loathe 'Uncle Tom'

Do black people really know their ‘Uncle Tom’?

9 Black Celebs Malcolm X Would Call Modern Day Uncle Toms

 

[Asclepias]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

Maybe you should listen to Blacks-

Hey, USMB leftists -- what's the feminine term for "Uncle Tom"?

Angela Davis. Why do you ask?

Davis is a far leftist, not a Democratic Party escapee.

Who said she was a Dem party escapee you retard? Did you forget that your question was to leftists?

I can't really hold your hand and lead you through this. Social distancing, y'know.

The black woman in the Tweet depotoo posted is not pleased that her community is being exploited by Democrats for political power. If she were a man, she'd be called an "Uncle Tom". But she's a woman, so I asked leftists what the feminine equivalent of Uncle Tom is.

So you can dismiss what she says without having to think about it.

This is why white people shouldnt try to use Black lexicon. You dont even seem to know that Uncle Tom was a freedom fighter like Angela Davis. The term you are looking for is more likely Uncle Ruckus. You also dont seem to know that Blacks only vote for Dems because Repubs are more racist.

Uncle Tom, as used today, means "sellout". At least try to keep up.

Maybe to whites. You guys do tend to be about a decade behind with our lexicon.

As it turns out, you're wrong.

Top 5 Fox News Uncle Toms

CNN’s Keith Boykin calls African American Trump supporters at the White House ‘Uncle Toms’

Dems Join GOP to Muzzle Black Speech
Immunity Sought for Uncle Tom Behavior

Why African-Americans Loathe 'Uncle Tom'

Do black people really know their ‘Uncle Tom’?

9 Black Celebs Malcolm X Would Call Modern Day Uncle Toms

Actually it turns out I am right. With the exception of 1 link all those are dated about 10 years or more ago.

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

Reparations in what form? Be specific, how would it work?

Cash, tuition, real estate, moratorium on taxes.

Cash. Back pay with interest for the wages denied the enslaved and the lower wages Blacks were paid for the same work afterwards up to and including the 90's

Tution. Free college tution for every Black person.

Real Estate. Return the land stolen from Blacks after Lincoln was killed and the lands stolen via ethnic cleansing in different parts all around this country.

Tax Moratorium. Blacks dont pay taxes for 20 years and no bullshit after that trying to recoup it.

Lets start with that. Repairing the wealth gap.

So it comes down to money. Who pays and who gets paid? Do black people who immigrated here in 1980 get paid? Does an Australian family that immigrated here in 1980 have to pay?

I agree that the wealth gap is an issue. I think it’s an issue for many races not just blacks. I’m having a very hard time understanding how your reparations program would realistically work. There are so many factors, it would be a giant mess

It always comes down to money with whites. Thats the only thing they value and the only thing that would provide a sense of loss.

The US pays just like they paid the Japanese. The descendants of the enslaved get paid. Obviously if your family immigrated after any financial loss due to racism you wouldnt get anything.

White people always have a hard time with reparations which is exactly what I pointed out would happen. You even made the same excuses most of them make. You claim it would be too hard or it would be a mess. What would be so hard about it and why would it be a mess?

I’m not making excuses I reacted the way I did because the things I bring up are real issues. I’m an open minded person and very willing to support your cause but it needs to make sense and be realistic. I’m asking questions about the things that seem complicated to me and that would cause it to be a mess.

We are generations away from slavery. A plantation owner from the 1800s May have decedents who are now living on food stamps in a trailer park. Do they need to give up the trailer?

I may have a great great great grandfather who died in the civil war fighting to free the slaves, do I need to pay as much as my neighbor who’s GGG grandfather fought for the south? Who manages and verifies people’s family histories to determine who pays and who gets paid? How is the money or property collected, how is it distributed. Does a black family whose mother is white and father is black get the same as an all black family? Does a black family that immigrated here I’m 1930 get the same as a family who came in 1850. What about a homeless black man who grew up in foster care and has no idea what his family history is?

I can go on all day. You can’t really think this thing would be easy to undertake. It has mess written all over it. what you ask for needs to be realistic and have a solid framework around a plan of action. I’m just trying to drill down on what yours is.

 

[daveman]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

Hmmm...I wonder if white folks have the tendency to "express frustration" toward the behavior of darker folks?

See BL gives a perfect example of how to speak like an inflammatory douchebag. Something I’d recognize as a mistake if I aligned myself with him in any way. I’m guessing he is white and I am also white so if you asked me what mistakes white people make I’d say one of the things would be the ignorant tone BL spews. Thankfully the % of people who talk and think this way is being washed out

You just make sure you don't criticize Asclepias for being an inflammatory douchebag. Because that would be racist.

Or so liberals tell me.

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair."

Thats exactly what I say about people getting their property destroyed in riots. Life isnt fair. At least you have insurance.

The people who destroy things in riots are still here and are the ones that broke the law. They should be punished. My grandfather who stole the necklace is dead, he can’t be punished. You don’t get the difference? Really??

But you can repay the profit your grandfather made off of stealing that necklace or the punitive damages suffered as a result of that necklace being stolen.

How in the world am I supposed to know those values?! Especially from multiple generations ago. Our society is so mixed right now, that task of tracking profits and damages is virtually impossible

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

Hmmm...I wonder if white folks have the tendency to "express frustration" toward the behavior of darker folks?

See BL gives a perfect example of how to speak like an inflammatory douchebag. Something I’d recognize as a mistake if I aligned myself with him in any way. I’m guessing he is white and I am also white so if you asked me what mistakes white people make I’d say one of the things would be the ignorant tone BL spews. Thankfully the % of people who talk and think this way is being washed out

You just make sure you don't criticize Asclepias for being an inflammatory douchebag. Because that would be racist.

Or so liberals tell me.

I can have a rational conversation with Asclepias cant say the same about BL

 

[daveman]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

Maybe you should listen to Blacks-

Hey, USMB leftists -- what's the feminine term for "Uncle Tom"?

Angela Davis. Why do you ask?

Davis is a far leftist, not a Democratic Party escapee.

Who said she was a Dem party escapee you retard? Did you forget that your question was to leftists?

I can't really hold your hand and lead you through this. Social distancing, y'know.

The black woman in the Tweet depotoo posted is not pleased that her community is being exploited by Democrats for political power. If she were a man, she'd be called an "Uncle Tom". But she's a woman, so I asked leftists what the feminine equivalent of Uncle Tom is.

So you can dismiss what she says without having to think about it.

This is why white people shouldnt try to use Black lexicon. You dont even seem to know that Uncle Tom was a freedom fighter like Angela Davis. The term you are looking for is more likely Uncle Ruckus. You also dont seem to know that Blacks only vote for Dems because Repubs are more racist.

Uncle Tom, as used today, means "sellout". At least try to keep up.

Maybe to whites. You guys do tend to be about a decade behind with our lexicon.

As it turns out, you're wrong.

Top 5 Fox News Uncle Toms

CNN’s Keith Boykin calls African American Trump supporters at the White House ‘Uncle Toms’

Dems Join GOP to Muzzle Black Speech
Immunity Sought for Uncle Tom Behavior

Why African-Americans Loathe 'Uncle Tom'

Do black people really know their ‘Uncle Tom’?

9 Black Celebs Malcolm X Would Call Modern Day Uncle Toms

Actually it turns out I am right. With the exception of 1 link all those are dated about 10 years or more ago.

So you believe any white person can approach any black person and call him "Uncle Tom", and the black person will take it as a compliment?

Because that's dumber than shit.

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

Reparations in what form? Be specific, how would it work?

Cash, tuition, real estate, moratorium on taxes.

Cash. Back pay with interest for the wages denied the enslaved and the lower wages Blacks were paid for the same work afterwards up to and including the 90's

Tution. Free college tution for every Black person.

Real Estate. Return the land stolen from Blacks after Lincoln was killed and the lands stolen via ethnic cleansing in different parts all around this country.

Tax Moratorium. Blacks dont pay taxes for 20 years and no bullshit after that trying to recoup it.

Lets start with that. Repairing the wealth gap.

So it comes down to money. Who pays and who gets paid? Do black people who immigrated here in 1980 get paid? Does an Australian family that immigrated here in 1980 have to pay?

I agree that the wealth gap is an issue. I think it’s an issue for many races not just blacks. I’m having a very hard time understanding how your reparations program would realistically work. There are so many factors, it would be a giant mess

It always comes down to money with whites. Thats the only thing they value and the only thing that would provide a sense of loss.

The US pays just like they paid the Japanese. The descendants of the enslaved get paid. Obviously if your family immigrated after any financial loss due to racism you wouldnt get anything.

White people always have a hard time with reparations which is exactly what I pointed out would happen. You even made the same excuses most of them make. You claim it would be too hard or it would be a mess. What would be so hard about it and why would it be a mess?

I’m not making excuses I reacted the way I did because the things I bring up are real issues. I’m an open minded person and very willing to support your cause but it needs to make sense and be realistic. I’m asking questions about the things that seem complicated to me and that would cause it to be a mess.

We are generations away from slavery. A plantation owner from the 1800s May have decedents who are now living on food stamps in a trailer park. Do they need to give up the trailer?

I may have a great great great grandfather who died in the civil war fighting to free the slaves, do I need to pay as much as my neighbor who’s GGG grandfather fought for the south? Who manages and verifies people’s family histories to determine who pays and who gets paid? How is the money or property collected, how is it distributed. Does a black family whose mother is white and father is black get the same as an all black family? Does a black family that immigrated here I’m 1930 get the same as a family who came in 1850. What about a homeless black man who grew up in foster care and has no idea what his family history is?

I can go on all day. You can’t really think this thing would be easy to undertake. It has mess written all over it. what you ask for needs to be realistic and have a solid framework around a plan of action. I’m just trying to drill down on what yours is.

"...but it needs to make sense and be realistic. "

What specifically is not realistic about back pay with interest, free tuition, no taxes, returned real estate? Those are all very real things that are easily doable.

Who said anything about a slave owners descendants giving up food stamps? I didnt say the slave owners would be paying. I said the US would.

Again youre not focusing on what I said because you are having that reaction all whites have to actually fixing things with the race issue for real. You personally wouldnt be paying anything other than your normal taxes.

The same people that manage and verify things for a million other reasons or you can employ some more people and give them jobs doing it. All these questions are really just excuses not to do whats right and the main reason i stated what I said.

 

[daveman]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

Hmmm...I wonder if white folks have the tendency to "express frustration" toward the behavior of darker folks?

See BL gives a perfect example of how to speak like an inflammatory douchebag. Something I’d recognize as a mistake if I aligned myself with him in any way. I’m guessing he is white and I am also white so if you asked me what mistakes white people make I’d say one of the things would be the ignorant tone BL spews. Thankfully the % of people who talk and think this way is being washed out

You just make sure you don't criticize Asclepias for being an inflammatory douchebag. Because that would be racist.

Or so liberals tell me.

I can have a rational conversation with Asclepias cant say the same about BL

Oh, so people are only inflammatory douchebags if they're not inflammatory douchebags to you personally.

Or are you that afraid of being called racist?

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair."

Thats exactly what I say about people getting their property destroyed in riots. Life isnt fair. At least you have insurance.

The people who destroy things in riots are still here and are the ones that broke the law. They should be punished. My grandfather who stole the necklace is dead, he can’t be punished. You don’t get the difference? Really??

But you can repay the profit your grandfather made off of stealing that necklace or the punitive damages suffered as a result of that necklace being stolen.

How in the world am I supposed to know those values?! Especially from multiple generations ago. Our society is so mixed right now, that task of tracking profits and damages is virtually impossible

Take it to an appraiser? The excuse that its all too hard is just that.....an excuse. Gotta go.

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

Hmmm...I wonder if white folks have the tendency to "express frustration" toward the behavior of darker folks?

See BL gives a perfect example of how to speak like an inflammatory douchebag. Something I’d recognize as a mistake if I aligned myself with him in any way. I’m guessing he is white and I am also white so if you asked me what mistakes white people make I’d say one of the things would be the ignorant tone BL spews. Thankfully the % of people who talk and think this way is being washed out

You just make sure you don't criticize Asclepias for being an inflammatory douchebag. Because that would be racist.

Or so liberals tell me.

I can have a rational conversation with Asclepias cant say the same about BL

Oh, so people are only inflammatory douchebags if they're not inflammatory douchebags to you personally.

Or are you that afraid of being called racist?

Slade actually has the ability to converse. So even if we disagree on something we dont have to take it personally.