The Real Reasons for the Riots

[Picaro]

This deserves repeating...

When violent racists/cops are held accountable then come and talk to me about being peaceful.

Now why would anybody with an IQ over 10 come and talk to a gibbering idiot racist like you???? You're just some fat white kid out in the Burbs trying to play 'An angry Black Man N Stuff' on the innernutz.

 

[Asclepias]

This deserves repeating...

When violent racists/cops are held accountable then come and talk to me about being peaceful.

Now why would anybody with an IQ over 10 come and talk to a gibbering idiot racist like you???? You're just some fat white kid out in the Burbs trying to play 'An angry Black Man N Stuff' on the innernutz.

Yet here you are talking to me which confirms your point. Your IQ is the same as your 2 inch dick.

 

[Picaro]

It pains me to say this, but "we" now have a couple of generations of People of Color in this country who cannot understand why peace and prosperity do not come their way. They see the people on television, the professional athletes and entertainers, then look around themselves and look at their own lives and see...a rather unpleasant existence. But what they see is only half the picture. They don't see the work, the effort, the time, and the talents that, when combined, bring about the prosperity that they see in others. It is a puzzle to them.

And then something happens. Some Black Yoot is killed by the cops under circumstances where it appears that the killing was totally unjustified.

Now, statistically, this killing (regardless of which one(s) you are talking about) is statistically microscopic. For all practical purposes, it has no impact on anything or anyone that they know personally. And one might also note that there were about a dozen Black Yoots killed in Chicago last weekend. A typical - in fact a rather slow - weekend for killings in the Windy City. No protests, no riots, no nothing. Just "bid-ness" as usual.

So these lost generations JUMP ON the felonious killing of those isolated Black Yoots and scream: "This is why Black people can't succeed in this country! White people are all racists! They are holding us down!"

Which is statistical, logical, and factual nonsense. But it does, in their addled brains, provide an EXPLANATION of why their lives are not the same as the lives they focus on in their daily lives...the drug dealers, the professional athletes, the rappers, and the ubiquitous upper-middle-class "white people" on television. It gives them an excuse for the fact that they have not assimilated and not succeeded, and the future doesn't look the least bit promising to them.

Because of racism...which is manifested by these isolated. horrible killings.

And that's why they riot: To protest against the racism that - in their minds - is holding them back from the American Dream.

Two generations? There were lots of riots back in the late 60s. Did you forget?

Seems nothing’s changed since then.

They got Nixon elected, then Reagan, then Trump. So yeah, they got 'Change' all right. lol lol lol

The Feds need to ship in convoys of fuel tanker trucks and lots of empty jugs and give the vermin all the free fuel they can carry. Then we can laugh at the vermin killing each other over Skittles and cardboard boxes to sleep under.

 

[Picaro]

This deserves repeating...

When violent racists/cops are held accountable then come and talk to me about being peaceful.

Now why would anybody with an IQ over 10 come and talk to a gibbering idiot racist like you???? You're just some fat white kid out in the Burbs trying to play 'An angry Black Man N Stuff' on the innernutz.

Yet here you are talking to me which confirms your point. Your IQ is the same as your 2 inch dick.

Son in your imagination I came in your mouth? Your fatnasty about my penis being the twice as long as yours is just weird.

 

[OldLady]

This deserves repeating...

When violent racists/cops are held accountable then come and talk to me about being peaceful.

Aren't the McMichaels and Chauvin being held accountable? I realize Floyd's murder was just the trigger, but if someone wanted to talk to you about being peaceful, would you listen?

 

[Asclepias]

This deserves repeating...

When violent racists/cops are held accountable then come and talk to me about being peaceful.

Aren't the McMichaels and Chauvin being held accountable? I realize Floyd's murder was just the trigger, but if someone wanted to talk to you about being peaceful, would you listen?

From what I remember both were able to walk away free from their incidents until video surfaced. In Chauvins case the charge was a bullshit one that will be talked down or dismissed. You charge the highest and work from there. The other cops involved haven't even been charged to my current knowledge. If the shoe was on the other foot they would have put the Black perpetrators under the prison within the hour and did investigations later. That right there is slap in the face.

Depends on who wanted to talk, under what context, and their reasons why.

 

[Asclepias]

This deserves repeating...

When violent racists/cops are held accountable then come and talk to me about being peaceful.

Now why would anybody with an IQ over 10 come and talk to a gibbering idiot racist like you???? You're just some fat white kid out in the Burbs trying to play 'An angry Black Man N Stuff' on the innernutz.

Yet here you are talking to me which confirms your point. Your IQ is the same as your 2 inch dick.

Son in your imagination I came in your mouth? Your fatnasty about my penis being the twice as long as yours is just weird.

Dont be mad you called yourself an idiot and I pointed it out to you. If you were smart you wouldnt have made such a glaring mistake.

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

 

[depotoo]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

You're used to having Joe Biden do that, Mac?

As pathetic as he is, it's better than a Trumpster.

Better yet, neither should, but both ends just love showing us how similar they are.

If they're so similar then why in God's name are blacks giving political power to one Party without getting much of anything in return? That's just plain idiotic!

Not if you (honestly) look at the alternative.

It's a question of political power, Mac! You don't have any if you don't get anything in return for your vote. If blacks vote for Democrats simply because they've always voted for Democrats then they've rendered themselves powerless. Let's be honest here...most Democratic politicians show up in poor neighborhoods when they're running for office and then aren't to be seen until the next election. You want to get results? Organize and consolidate your political power. The Irish did it. Jews did as well. Hispanics are doing it now. Demand results or you're taking your votes elsewhere and then DO SO!

Right now our hands are a tied. We cant have that incompetent fuckup in the white house any longer with his dog whistles to white racists. When the repubs produce a non sell out Black person or a non racist white person for POTUS then and only then will they get my vote.

You only wish that were true. He wasn’t racist until he starting running for president on the gop ticket. Imagine that!
For those wanting the truth, here is a taste with links for you. Don’t believe other crap put out there.-
When I was Manhattan Borough president and president of the New York City Council, I asked him numerous times to help black or Hispanic groups, and he always came through, many times without publicity. When a hurricane ravished Puerto Rico in the mid 1980s, I asked many big companies to give various forms of assistance — but the problem was how to get all of this aid down to Puerto Rico. I called Donald Trump, and he provided us with a 727 jet to take all of the donated material down to the island, and he didn’t ask for any publicity for that generous act.

My friend, Rev. Floyd Flake, the minister of the largest black church in Queens, asked for some help for his senior center. Again, I called Donald Trump and he wrote a big check.

One day I met an African American woman on the street with her two adorable young kids. She was homeless, and I gave her some money — and then asked Donald to get her into some low-income housing in Queens. He came through, and did so without any fanfare.

Donald Trump’s no racist, as past acts and presidential record prove

The president is honest and doesn’t parse his words, like most politicians, and that drives the media crazy. But his honesty is refreshing, and he is usually right, if not always diplomatic.

thehill.com

Meanwhile, Trump invited celebrities to stay at Mar-a-Lago, as his personal guests, including a famous interracial couple: Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley in 1994 (right before they married)—which attracted paparazzi.

The writer for New York Magazine asked somebody at Palm Beach: “Was Donald Trump ever really popular there?” The answer: “No, not really.” The interviewer: “Why, too vulgar?” And the person replied: “Oh no, not at all. He would have these parties and everyone would come, but then he wouldn’t accept invitations back to their houses.”

At an elegant dinner party, one member of a social club (unattended by Trump), a woman, spoke frankly to the writer from New York Magazine: “Of course we’re prejudiced down here; of course we discriminate.” She explained: “But people get the wrong idea. It’s not that we have anything against all these others [minorities]. We simply want to be with people like ourselves. Our own kind. What’s wrong with that?”

But then, in 1995, Donald Trump opened up Mar-a-Lago as a brand new social club. Promptly, the Palm Beach town council tried to impose restrictions on membership, party attendance, photography, etc. But suddenly, Trump undercut them “with a searing attack, claiming that local officials seemed to accept the established private clubs in town that had excluded Jews and Blacks while imposing tough rules on his inclusive one.”

To scorn them, in the fall of 1996 Trump’s lawyer sent copies of classic movies on discriminationto each member of the Palm Beach town council. The movies were A Gentleman’s Agreement, about a journalist exposing anti-Semitism in New York, and the other one was Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, about a white woman who brings her black fiancé to meet her white parents.

In December 1996, Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Palm Beach, alleging that the town was discriminating against Mar-a-Lago, partly because Trump’s “Mar-a-Lago was open to Jews and African-Americans.” The lawsuit sought $100 million in damages.

Despite some misgivings, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abraham Foxman, was pleased that Trump denounced discriminatory policies at social clubs. Foxman said that Trump had exposed Palm Beach for “its seamier side of discrimination. It has an impact.”...
...

Meanwhile, since the 1980s, an organization that Jesse Jackson founded and still chaired, Operation PUSH, carried out boycotts of businesses to pressure them to provide more job opportunities and housing for black people. In 1996, Jackson merged PUSH with another non-profit organization he had founded. The Rainbow/PUSH Coalition would continue to do activism on social justice and civil rights.

To help, Donald Trump agreed to give office space in The Trump Building at 40 Wall Street, free of charge, so that Jesse Jackson could have a prominent position from which to pressure corporations to hire and promote African Americans. This central location was across the street from the New York Stock Exchange. At the time, Wall Street was occupied mostly by white people, with nearly no African Americans. As reported by the New York Times, “Jackson said his new office would seek to cajole, persuade and pressure American companies to hire and promote more blacks and members of other minorities, name more of them to corporate boards and award more business to companies owned by members of minorities.”
(My note, they had been pushed out of the area due to increasing rents)

The Donald and "the Blacks" - New Standard Press

The media complained that Trump said "the blacks" -- yet writers ignored the many times when Trump supported, praised and befriended African Americans.

www.newstandardpress.com

Much more at the links

 

[Asclepias]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

You're used to having Joe Biden do that, Mac?

As pathetic as he is, it's better than a Trumpster.

Better yet, neither should, but both ends just love showing us how similar they are.

If they're so similar then why in God's name are blacks giving political power to one Party without getting much of anything in return? That's just plain idiotic!

Not if you (honestly) look at the alternative.

It's a question of political power, Mac! You don't have any if you don't get anything in return for your vote. If blacks vote for Democrats simply because they've always voted for Democrats then they've rendered themselves powerless. Let's be honest here...most Democratic politicians show up in poor neighborhoods when they're running for office and then aren't to be seen until the next election. You want to get results? Organize and consolidate your political power. The Irish did it. Jews did as well. Hispanics are doing it now. Demand results or you're taking your votes elsewhere and then DO SO!

Right now our hands are a tied. We cant have that incompetent fuckup in the white house any longer with his dog whistles to white racists. When the repubs produce a non sell out Black person or a non racist white person for POTUS then and only then will they get my vote.

You only wish that were true. He wasn’t racist until he starting running for president on the gop ticket. Imagine that!
For those wanting the truth, here is a taste with links for you. Don’t believe other crap put out there.-
When I was Manhattan Borough president and president of the New York City Council, I asked him numerous times to help black or Hispanic groups, and he always came through, many times without publicity. When a hurricane ravished Puerto Rico in the mid 1980s, I asked many big companies to give various forms of assistance — but the problem was how to get all of this aid down to Puerto Rico. I called Donald Trump, and he provided us with a 727 jet to take all of the donated material down to the island, and he didn’t ask for any publicity for that generous act.

My friend, Rev. Floyd Flake, the minister of the largest black church in Queens, asked for some help for his senior center. Again, I called Donald Trump and he wrote a big check.

One day I met an African American woman on the street with her two adorable young kids. She was homeless, and I gave her some money — and then asked Donald to get her into some low-income housing in Queens. He came through, and did so without any fanfare.

Donald Trump’s no racist, as past acts and presidential record prove

The president is honest and doesn’t parse his words, like most politicians, and that drives the media crazy. But his honesty is refreshing, and he is usually right, if not always diplomatic.

thehill.com

Meanwhile, Trump invited celebrities to stay at Mar-a-Lago, as his personal guests, including a famous interracial couple: Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley in 1994 (right before they married)—which attracted paparazzi.

The writer for New York Magazine asked somebody at Palm Beach: “Was Donald Trump ever really popular there?” The answer: “No, not really.” The interviewer: “Why, too vulgar?” And the person replied: “Oh no, not at all. He would have these parties and everyone would come, but then he wouldn’t accept invitations back to their houses.”

At an elegant dinner party, one member of a social club (unattended by Trump), a woman, spoke frankly to the writer from New York Magazine: “Of course we’re prejudiced down here; of course we discriminate.” She explained: “But people get the wrong idea. It’s not that we have anything against all these others [minorities]. We simply want to be with people like ourselves. Our own kind. What’s wrong with that?”

But then, in 1995, Donald Trump opened up Mar-a-Lago as a brand new social club. Promptly, the Palm Beach town council tried to impose restrictions on membership, party attendance, photography, etc. But suddenly, Trump undercut them “with a searing attack, claiming that local officials seemed to accept the established private clubs in town that had excluded Jews and Blacks while imposing tough rules on his inclusive one.”

To scorn them, in the fall of 1996 Trump’s lawyer sent copies of classic movies on discriminationto each member of the Palm Beach town council. The movies were A Gentleman’s Agreement, about a journalist exposing anti-Semitism in New York, and the other one was Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, about a white woman who brings her black fiancé to meet her white parents.

In December 1996, Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Palm Beach, alleging that the town was discriminating against Mar-a-Lago, partly because Trump’s “Mar-a-Lago was open to Jews and African-Americans.” The lawsuit sought $100 million in damages.

Despite some misgivings, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abraham Foxman, was pleased that Trump denounced discriminatory policies at social clubs. Foxman said that Trump had exposed Palm Beach for “its seamier side of discrimination. It has an impact.”...
...

Meanwhile, since the 1980s, an organization that Jesse Jackson founded and still chaired, Operation PUSH, carried out boycotts of businesses to pressure them to provide more job opportunities and housing for black people. In 1996, Jackson merged PUSH with another non-profit organization he had founded. The Rainbow/PUSH Coalition would continue to do activism on social justice and civil rights.

To help, Donald Trump agreed to give office space in The Trump Building at 40 Wall Street, free of charge, so that Jesse Jackson could have a prominent position from which to pressure corporations to hire and promote African Americans. This central location was across the street from the New York Stock Exchange. At the time, Wall Street was occupied mostly by white people, with nearly no African Americans. As reported by the New York Times, “Jackson said his new office would seek to cajole, persuade and pressure American companies to hire and promote more blacks and members of other minorities, name more of them to corporate boards and award more business to companies owned by members of minorities.”
(My note, they had been pushed out of the area due to increasing rents)

The Donald and "the Blacks" - New Standard Press

The media complained that Trump said "the blacks" -- yet writers ignored the many times when Trump supported, praised and befriended African Americans.

www.newstandardpress.com

Much more at the links

No he was racist long before he ran for POTUS. He was sued for discrimination against Blacks, he admitted he said he didnt want Black people doing his accounting, and he tried his best to get 5 Blacks kids killed that were innocent.

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

Reparations in what form? Be specific, how would it work?

 

[skye]

You want the real reason for these riots happening as we speak? the riots occuring now? This is the real reason.

The Rats will do anything to stop President Trump in November.

But they will fail.

 

[depotoo]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

You're used to having Joe Biden do that, Mac?

As pathetic as he is, it's better than a Trumpster.

Better yet, neither should, but both ends just love showing us how similar they are.

If they're so similar then why in God's name are blacks giving political power to one Party without getting much of anything in return? That's just plain idiotic!

Not if you (honestly) look at the alternative.

It's a question of political power, Mac! You don't have any if you don't get anything in return for your vote. If blacks vote for Democrats simply because they've always voted for Democrats then they've rendered themselves powerless. Let's be honest here...most Democratic politicians show up in poor neighborhoods when they're running for office and then aren't to be seen until the next election. You want to get results? Organize and consolidate your political power. The Irish did it. Jews did as well. Hispanics are doing it now. Demand results or you're taking your votes elsewhere and then DO SO!

Right now our hands are a tied. We cant have that incompetent fuckup in the white house any longer with his dog whistles to white racists. When the repubs produce a non sell out Black person or a non racist white person for POTUS then and only then will they get my vote.

You only wish that were true. He wasn’t racist until he starting running for president on the gop ticket. Imagine that!
For those wanting the truth, here is a taste with links for you. Don’t believe other crap put out there.-
When I was Manhattan Borough president and president of the New York City Council, I asked him numerous times to help black or Hispanic groups, and he always came through, many times without publicity. When a hurricane ravished Puerto Rico in the mid 1980s, I asked many big companies to give various forms of assistance — but the problem was how to get all of this aid down to Puerto Rico. I called Donald Trump, and he provided us with a 727 jet to take all of the donated material down to the island, and he didn’t ask for any publicity for that generous act.

My friend, Rev. Floyd Flake, the minister of the largest black church in Queens, asked for some help for his senior center. Again, I called Donald Trump and he wrote a big check.

One day I met an African American woman on the street with her two adorable young kids. She was homeless, and I gave her some money — and then asked Donald to get her into some low-income housing in Queens. He came through, and did so without any fanfare.

Donald Trump’s no racist, as past acts and presidential record prove

The president is honest and doesn’t parse his words, like most politicians, and that drives the media crazy. But his honesty is refreshing, and he is usually right, if not always diplomatic.

thehill.com

Meanwhile, Trump invited celebrities to stay at Mar-a-Lago, as his personal guests, including a famous interracial couple: Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley in 1994 (right before they married)—which attracted paparazzi.

The writer for New York Magazine asked somebody at Palm Beach: “Was Donald Trump ever really popular there?” The answer: “No, not really.” The interviewer: “Why, too vulgar?” And the person replied: “Oh no, not at all. He would have these parties and everyone would come, but then he wouldn’t accept invitations back to their houses.”

At an elegant dinner party, one member of a social club (unattended by Trump), a woman, spoke frankly to the writer from New York Magazine: “Of course we’re prejudiced down here; of course we discriminate.” She explained: “But people get the wrong idea. It’s not that we have anything against all these others [minorities]. We simply want to be with people like ourselves. Our own kind. What’s wrong with that?”

But then, in 1995, Donald Trump opened up Mar-a-Lago as a brand new social club. Promptly, the Palm Beach town council tried to impose restrictions on membership, party attendance, photography, etc. But suddenly, Trump undercut them “with a searing attack, claiming that local officials seemed to accept the established private clubs in town that had excluded Jews and Blacks while imposing tough rules on his inclusive one.”

To scorn them, in the fall of 1996 Trump’s lawyer sent copies of classic movies on discriminationto each member of the Palm Beach town council. The movies were A Gentleman’s Agreement, about a journalist exposing anti-Semitism in New York, and the other one was Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, about a white woman who brings her black fiancé to meet her white parents.

In December 1996, Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Palm Beach, alleging that the town was discriminating against Mar-a-Lago, partly because Trump’s “Mar-a-Lago was open to Jews and African-Americans.” The lawsuit sought $100 million in damages.

Despite some misgivings, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abraham Foxman, was pleased that Trump denounced discriminatory policies at social clubs. Foxman said that Trump had exposed Palm Beach for “its seamier side of discrimination. It has an impact.”...
...

Meanwhile, since the 1980s, an organization that Jesse Jackson founded and still chaired, Operation PUSH, carried out boycotts of businesses to pressure them to provide more job opportunities and housing for black people. In 1996, Jackson merged PUSH with another non-profit organization he had founded. The Rainbow/PUSH Coalition would continue to do activism on social justice and civil rights.

To help, Donald Trump agreed to give office space in The Trump Building at 40 Wall Street, free of charge, so that Jesse Jackson could have a prominent position from which to pressure corporations to hire and promote African Americans. This central location was across the street from the New York Stock Exchange. At the time, Wall Street was occupied mostly by white people, with nearly no African Americans. As reported by the New York Times, “Jackson said his new office would seek to cajole, persuade and pressure American companies to hire and promote more blacks and members of other minorities, name more of them to corporate boards and award more business to companies owned by members of minorities.”
(My note, they had been pushed out of the area due to increasing rents)

The Donald and "the Blacks" - New Standard Press

The media complained that Trump said "the blacks" -- yet writers ignored the many times when Trump supported, praised and befriended African Americans.

www.newstandardpress.com

Much more at the links

No he was racist long before he ran for POTUS. He was sued for discrimination against Blacks, he admitted he said he didnt want Black people doing his accounting, and he tried his best to get 5 Blacks kids killed that were innocent.

He was just coming out of college and joining the company at the time. He had nothing to do with it.

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannott afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Nothing improves on this issue unless and until both ends of it start holding their own side accountable.

Otherwise, it continues to rot.

I see no signs of that happening. Not even close.

Thats not true. When Black were not rioting nothing was being done.

Perhaps in the 60s but since then there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. The efforts should continue to be done with cooperation and relationship building. Not violence destruction and hate.

What has been done other than a lot of talk and the giving with one hand while taking away with the other? Can you show me some concrete examples? From my vantage point things have not gotten much better and I only say that because Blacks are more aware of the slight of hand tricks whites use to maintain the status quo.

Happy to, what starting point do you want to go from? 60s?

Whatever point you think best suits your narrative.

What do you think my narrative is?

That there has been a lot done and continuing to be done. You cant show me one thing whites have legitimately done to address their actions that wasn't precipitated by some Black aggression and or Black action.

Of course I can. Let’s start by understanding what you would consider a legitimate action to address the wrong doing... Affirmative action, Community funding, welfare, medical needs, housing, scolarships, criminal justice reform? Would any of those qualify? Lmk what you consider significant and I’ll point out a few examples if you like

None of them would qualify as they were all very much precipitated by vocal Black protest and or aggression. Some of them have actually contributed to that give in one hand and take away with the other effect I was speaking about specifically affirmative action. The one that matters most has been consistently fought against by whites from every quarter.

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King



"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

I asked for you to give an example of some policies that would qualify as redeeming. You didn’t answer. Name a few things that you’d like to see enacted by our government

Well lets start with what I was speaking about. Reparations. If you can handle that then we will go from there.

Reparations in what form? Be specific, how would it work?

Cash, tuition, real estate, moratorium on taxes.

Cash. Back pay with interest for the wages denied the enslaved and the lower wages Blacks were paid for the same work afterwards up to and including the 90's

Tution. Free college tution for every Black person.

Real Estate. Return the land stolen from Blacks after Lincoln was killed and the lands stolen via ethnic cleansing in different parts all around this country.

Tax Moratorium. Blacks dont pay taxes for 20 years and no bullshit after that trying to recoup it.

Lets start with that. Repairing the wealth gap.

 

[Asclepias]

Good to have a Trumpster tells us what's what in the minds of black Americans.

Phew, what a relief.

You're used to having Joe Biden do that, Mac?

As pathetic as he is, it's better than a Trumpster.

Better yet, neither should, but both ends just love showing us how similar they are.

If they're so similar then why in God's name are blacks giving political power to one Party without getting much of anything in return? That's just plain idiotic!

Not if you (honestly) look at the alternative.

It's a question of political power, Mac! You don't have any if you don't get anything in return for your vote. If blacks vote for Democrats simply because they've always voted for Democrats then they've rendered themselves powerless. Let's be honest here...most Democratic politicians show up in poor neighborhoods when they're running for office and then aren't to be seen until the next election. You want to get results? Organize and consolidate your political power. The Irish did it. Jews did as well. Hispanics are doing it now. Demand results or you're taking your votes elsewhere and then DO SO!

Right now our hands are a tied. We cant have that incompetent fuckup in the white house any longer with his dog whistles to white racists. When the repubs produce a non sell out Black person or a non racist white person for POTUS then and only then will they get my vote.

You only wish that were true. He wasn’t racist until he starting running for president on the gop ticket. Imagine that!
For those wanting the truth, here is a taste with links for you. Don’t believe other crap put out there.-
When I was Manhattan Borough president and president of the New York City Council, I asked him numerous times to help black or Hispanic groups, and he always came through, many times without publicity. When a hurricane ravished Puerto Rico in the mid 1980s, I asked many big companies to give various forms of assistance — but the problem was how to get all of this aid down to Puerto Rico. I called Donald Trump, and he provided us with a 727 jet to take all of the donated material down to the island, and he didn’t ask for any publicity for that generous act.

My friend, Rev. Floyd Flake, the minister of the largest black church in Queens, asked for some help for his senior center. Again, I called Donald Trump and he wrote a big check.

One day I met an African American woman on the street with her two adorable young kids. She was homeless, and I gave her some money — and then asked Donald to get her into some low-income housing in Queens. He came through, and did so without any fanfare.

Donald Trump’s no racist, as past acts and presidential record prove

The president is honest and doesn’t parse his words, like most politicians, and that drives the media crazy. But his honesty is refreshing, and he is usually right, if not always diplomatic.

thehill.com

Meanwhile, Trump invited celebrities to stay at Mar-a-Lago, as his personal guests, including a famous interracial couple: Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley in 1994 (right before they married)—which attracted paparazzi.

The writer for New York Magazine asked somebody at Palm Beach: “Was Donald Trump ever really popular there?” The answer: “No, not really.” The interviewer: “Why, too vulgar?” And the person replied: “Oh no, not at all. He would have these parties and everyone would come, but then he wouldn’t accept invitations back to their houses.”

At an elegant dinner party, one member of a social club (unattended by Trump), a woman, spoke frankly to the writer from New York Magazine: “Of course we’re prejudiced down here; of course we discriminate.” She explained: “But people get the wrong idea. It’s not that we have anything against all these others [minorities]. We simply want to be with people like ourselves. Our own kind. What’s wrong with that?”

But then, in 1995, Donald Trump opened up Mar-a-Lago as a brand new social club. Promptly, the Palm Beach town council tried to impose restrictions on membership, party attendance, photography, etc. But suddenly, Trump undercut them “with a searing attack, claiming that local officials seemed to accept the established private clubs in town that had excluded Jews and Blacks while imposing tough rules on his inclusive one.”

To scorn them, in the fall of 1996 Trump’s lawyer sent copies of classic movies on discriminationto each member of the Palm Beach town council. The movies were A Gentleman’s Agreement, about a journalist exposing anti-Semitism in New York, and the other one was Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, about a white woman who brings her black fiancé to meet her white parents.

In December 1996, Donald Trump filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Palm Beach, alleging that the town was discriminating against Mar-a-Lago, partly because Trump’s “Mar-a-Lago was open to Jews and African-Americans.” The lawsuit sought $100 million in damages.

Despite some misgivings, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League, Abraham Foxman, was pleased that Trump denounced discriminatory policies at social clubs. Foxman said that Trump had exposed Palm Beach for “its seamier side of discrimination. It has an impact.”...
...

Meanwhile, since the 1980s, an organization that Jesse Jackson founded and still chaired, Operation PUSH, carried out boycotts of businesses to pressure them to provide more job opportunities and housing for black people. In 1996, Jackson merged PUSH with another non-profit organization he had founded. The Rainbow/PUSH Coalition would continue to do activism on social justice and civil rights.

To help, Donald Trump agreed to give office space in The Trump Building at 40 Wall Street, free of charge, so that Jesse Jackson could have a prominent position from which to pressure corporations to hire and promote African Americans. This central location was across the street from the New York Stock Exchange. At the time, Wall Street was occupied mostly by white people, with nearly no African Americans. As reported by the New York Times, “Jackson said his new office would seek to cajole, persuade and pressure American companies to hire and promote more blacks and members of other minorities, name more of them to corporate boards and award more business to companies owned by members of minorities.”
(My note, they had been pushed out of the area due to increasing rents)

The Donald and "the Blacks" - New Standard Press

The media complained that Trump said "the blacks" -- yet writers ignored the many times when Trump supported, praised and befriended African Americans.

www.newstandardpress.com

Much more at the links

No he was racist long before he ran for POTUS. He was sued for discrimination against Blacks, he admitted he said he didnt want Black people doing his accounting, and he tried his best to get 5 Blacks kids killed that were innocent.

He was just coming out of college and joining the company at the time. He had nothing to do with it.

What makes you believe that?

 

[Slade3200]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

 

[Asclepias]

No one works harder than Black people

Here's those pesky facts getting in the way of your bullshit lies again....
Who Participated in welfare?

• The black population: At 41.6 percent, blacks were more likely to participate in government assistance programs in an average month.

o The black participation rate was followed by Hispanics at 36.4 percent, Asians or Pacific
Islanders at 17.8 percent, and non-Hispanic whites at 13.2 percent.

21.3% of US Participates in Government Assistance Programs Each Month

About 52.2 million people in the US participated in major means-tested government assistance programs each month in 2012, according to a Census Bureau report.

www.census.gov

Weird that Asians hit the ground running here and kick ass....why do you think that is?

Welfare was begin by whites for whites and the main reason the majority of people on welfare are white.

Asians were never enslaved in this country nor were their towns bombed out of jealousy due to prosperity.

Asians were put in concentration camps and stripped of their processions around WW2 days... also used pretty much like workSlaves to build the railroad during our countries founding. Not as long or intensive of a struggle as Blacks but worthy of mention and consideration as lives were destroyed.

Stop it. Asians were never enslaved in this country and they got reparations for whites stealing their property.

How are you going to say that willingly coming over here to work is anything like 400 years and multiple generations of enslavement?

I didn’t say the were “Like”. I actually pointed out that they were different and that the Asian plight was worthy of mention not dismissal

Its worthy of dismissal when their success is used as a barometer for Blacks when their experience in the US was totally different and no where near as destructive to their community.

That argument is worthy of dismissal but not the plight of Asians in this country. I’m a big supporter of the black community and recognized the injustices that have been done. With that said I’d like to ask you if you feel that mistakes are being made to hurt their cause by the way members of the black community express their frustrations? Should these mistakes be addressed?

What mistakes are you specifically talking about and how can they be mistakes if they are expressions of frustrations?

I was asking if you recognize any mistakes. I wasn’t calling any out specifically.

The only mistakes I can see in our cause is assuming that whites will one day magically see the light as a group. We cant wait for them to get with the program. We need to write them off until we see some concrete action, corrective measures, and meaningful atonement for the past and present.

Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection. That’s not good. Do you attribute these thoughts to all whites or just some?

"Sounds like you place all the blame on whites and have no self reflection."

In your mind what portion of the blame doesnt fall on the history and current actions of whites as a group in this country?

Obviously not all whites are like that. The problem is that Blacks cannot afford to be rendered less determined by the "Well some whites are good people" syndrome.

Obviously the portion where innocent people are getting rocks thrown at them and their businesses looted and set on fire. It’s the easiest and most obvious mistake to call out and it should have come from you and not from me.

Two things.

What innocent people and would their business be burning if whites as a group had done the right thing long ago?

Lines of cops of all colors trying to protect the public and are getting demolished out there. These are people with families who are taking punishment for something that they didn’t do while they risk their lives to protect. businesses wouldn’t be burning down if people didn’t light them on fire. You can’t dismiss or excuse those actions because of an oppressive history. That’s a cop out, pardon the pun. Looters are making a conscious decision to loot and they are responsible for those actions.

you should be calling that out as wrong and not making excuses for them by blaming “white people”... you don’t understand how destructive that it to your cause?? Really?

A cause I support BTW

I'm not dismissing or even condoning these actions. My point is factual. None of these things would be happening if the blame was placed where it belongs and not only addressed but corrected. Whites need to step back and ponder reality. Those businesses are not getting destroyed because of people protesting. They are getting destroyed because a struggle for survival doesn't have time or the emotional ability to find out who is really innocent and who is not. Its beyond common sense to expect a visceral reaction to be analysed and thought through. That doesnt even make sense.

your last two responses are dismissing and excusing the actions of the rioters. You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. They need to be told this loudly and clearly by members of their own community. Me as a white person telling them it’s wrong is meaningless. You as a black activist would be heard. But when you cant call out the destruction as a mistake when asked and when you blame whites and paint their actions as involuntary reactions like you just did then you are making excuses for the violence. That does not help your cause. It makes it worse Because we ALL KNOW, attacking innocent people is wrong.

"You are blaming whites and an oppressive history but not giving any responsibility to the people destroying and attacking. They arent sneezing, they are makomg a conscious choice to do what they do and what they are doing is wrong. "

I disagree. The reaction is visceral. If it was conscious then they would do it all the time. If it was conscious the actions wouldnt stop once they get emotionally drained. There would be a constant problem with rioting.

By you saying the reaction is visceral and there for not wrong you are dismissing responsibility and frankly you’re not giving them credit for being smart enough to control their emotions and act responsibly.

That would make sense if being smart could actually control emotions. I'm smarter than most people but if you piss me off I totally lose control until I calm down. I'm not dismissing the responsibility, I am out right rejecting the notion that it is our responsibility to convince whites to stop being racist and it follows that any and all events caused during an emotional display and fight for survival place that responsibility squarely at the feet of whites.

I never said it’s your responsibility to convince whites not to be racist. Where did you get that from?! I said it’s every individuals responsibility to follow the laws and not project violence and destruction upon the innocent. I don’t give a shit how mad you are. And if you truly can’t control it and follow those simple rules then you belong in prison because you are a threat to society.

That came from the belief that you seem to have that any condemnable actions are not the blame of whites and their history of violence and racism. I thought you said It was a mistake that Black people were making and I should condemn them. I cant blame someone for being angry and fighting back. This is why I blame whites. They want to put people in prison for fighting back.

Of course you can. If somebody is fighting back against innocent people then you can absolutely condemn them. If a black guy killed my great grandfather do I have a right to go punch a random black guy on the street? That seems to be the logic you are using.

do you not think that any of these rioters should be held to account for the crimes they are committing?

We arent talking about rights. We are talking about events and reality. Its more analogous to describe my logic as if Black people consistently killed people in your family and you destroyed the property of some random Black person in protest .

Depends on what if any crimes are being committed. Shouldnt the crimes of whites be punished first?

Fine I’ll go with your example... many black people killed many of my ancenstors. It still doesn’t excuse me destroying the property of a random black person who had nothing to do with it. That makes no sense

you ask of crimes of whites should be punished first.... it’s not a matter of order. If a crime is committed then it should be punished. There isn’t an order of operations. Outrage should be directed at the appropriate people and in the appropriate way. Assaulting random innocent people is NEVER justified

I didnt say you were excused, I said it makes sense if its a consistent pattern.

Whites crimes were/are first and have yet to be punished.

The people who committed those crime are long gone so punishment isn’t the appropriate word. If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you, not go to jail. If I don’t have the necklace then bad luck and tough shit. Life isn’t always fair. I’m sorry for what my grandpa did but that’s that. If I stole your car then I should be punished for stealing the car

"If my grandfather stole your grandmothers necklace and if I still had that necklace then I should give it back to you "

So why arent whites giving back the land their ancestors stole from Blacks?