The Political Agenda of the Christian Right

[☭proletarian☭]

Do you make a habit of trying to use spin and lies to avoid ever having to make a valid argument?

 

[Harry Dresden]

It really surprises me that in this day and age, people still believe in mysticism and the occult.

as i asked before Dean....and you were stumped then.....give me absolute proof that there is no "God".....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I guess we could have been monkeys at one time...but why not just become the planet of the apes? Why the necessity to evolve and co-exist with primates today?

Fundamental misunderstanding of evolution. We didn't evolve from monkeys or any other creature currently in existence; we share a common ancestor with them.

no your wrong Kalam...Dean evolved from the monkey....he and others like him....just sayin...

 

[Smartt33]

I haven't seen anyone yet strictly define what or who the "Christian right" is. Is that anyone who is a Christian and doesn't see things the same way that the lefts do?

Is it a more specific group of people who have a far right belief system that doesn't even agree with the general right?

I'll tell you what the "right" as apposed to the "left" wants to do. You can call it an agenda if you want to, but I don't believe it is written anywhere but in the true American hearts that they carry in their bodies. They believe the people need to have far more to say about what Government is doing. They believe that the government needs to be cut down to size. They believe that America is falling quickly into leftist immorality and decay, and that we need to clean up the country, raise the standards back to a respectable level, and get back to being the "We the people" who are the government.

That is the agenda. and I get it that the leftists don't want any part of that. That is why I will be voting right in November, 100%.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Homosexuality in the Bible

lots of that shit has got nothing to do with homosexuality....

 

[Harry Dresden]

My concern is how far will the right be allowed to go. Talk of a "Christian Nation" is reminiscent of totalitarian regimes.

yea people have concerns also how far extreame leftist like you and Dean will be allowed to go.....Talk of a "FAR left" nation is reminiscent of modern day California...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

It really surprises me that in this day and age, people still believe in mysticism and the occult.

as i asked before Dean....and you were stumped then.....give me absolute proof that there is no "God".....

as i asked before ....and you were stumped then.....give me absolute proof that there is no transcendent undetectable magic elephant penis in Harry Dresden's ass.....

 

[Coyote]

Nice attempt to twist again... but it is those choosing to TERMINATE that are making a choice of convenience over the choice TO sacrifice of themselves... the choice to raise is making the choice to sacrifice in that choice OF convenience.... it is quite evident that you have no clue what a choice of convenience is

When a woman chooses to terminate an innocent life... it is not because she cares for it or respects life... it is indeed because of her WANT, her OPPORTUNITY, her CONVENIENCE, her ACCOMMODATION, her COMFORT... much like when a murderer takes a life for their entertainment, their want, their opportunity, their pleasure

I am twisting nothing. I'm pointing out the blatant ignorance and hypocrisy in your own words.

First - in judging that some human life as more value than other human life through some nebulous standard of "innocence" as if that subjective yardstick confers greater value.

Second - in determining that women who opt not to complete a pregnancy are doing so because of "want, opportunity, convenience, accommodation and comfort" as if that is all that goes into a decision of termination. As if that is all bringing a child into this world is about. Pretty easy to decide for someone else from the high seat of judgement isn't? You sure must know their motivations because you sure has hell don't have to walk in her shoes, you can simply judge.

There is only one consistent moral view possible: either all human life is sacred and worth preserving or none is - because anything in between is arbritrary and subjective. That means no to abortion, no to war, no to capital punishment.

Do you have the balls to admit your own hypocrisy here?

At least I'm not going to pretend there is something inherently sacred about human life in isolation.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The scientific process is to observe, record, hypothesize, experiment, and validate.

That's the reason Creationism isn't science. It doesn't give me a predicition that I can validate via experimentation. Evolutionary science does, and has had a lot of value in developing new medical technologies.

just because you cant understand it Doc or see it.....doesnt mean it is not there or works and exists.......i myself believe that somewhere out there in the Universe is the reason we are here.....and im talking superior life forms, not necessarily a "GOD" so to speak,but a Superior and much further advanced Civilization ....not two random atoms who happened too collide and ...Wella....life on Earth as we know it.....but then that does bring up the question....how did that first Superior life form come about....

 

[Coyote]

The scientific process is to observe, record, hypothesize, experiment, and validate.

That's the reason Creationism isn't science. It doesn't give me a predicition that I can validate via experimentation. Evolutionary science does, and has had a lot of value in developing new medical technologies.

just because you cant understand it Doc or see it.....doesnt mean it is not there or works and exists.......i myself believe that somewhere out there in the Universe is the reason we are here.....and im talking superior life forms, not necessarily a "GOD" so to speak,but a Superior and much further advanced Civilization ....not two random atoms who happened too collide and ...Wella....life on Earth as we know it.....but then that does bring up the question....how did that first Superior life form come about....

No...it doesn't. But it does mean it isn't science and if it isn't science it should not be taught as science.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm curious. Did anyone even bother to argue the OP's ridiculous notion that the apocryphal "Christian Right" is trying to achieve their agenda through the courts, or did everyone just dive right into a rehash of the left's tortured scientific ignorance on the subject of . . . well, they're ignorant on damned near everything, but in this case, reproduction?

While it is true that conservatives do answer court cases brought by the left to advance THEIR agenda, I can't think of a single thing on the list that the OP is slavering over that isn't primarily being advanced by way of the electorate rather than the courts.

Abortion? All about the legislation. Look at the partial-birth abortion ban and Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

Homosexual marriage? DOMAs and attempts at a marriage Amendment.

Abstinence education and evolution/intelligent design? Taken up with the individual school boards or state legislatures.

Home schooling? Covered under state law, although it certainly does require them to then defend those laws in court quite a bit.

Embryonic stem cell research? That one is ALL about educating the electorate.

Cutting back on offensive broadcasting? Taken up with the FCC and the sponsors.

Ban contraceptives, overturn living wills, eliminate the apocryphal separation of church and state? Can we say, "Delusional OP"?

Maybe someone should try finding a source who is less paranoid and biased. Or trying being less paranoid and biased oneself.

 

[DiamondDave]

Nice attempt to twist again... but it is those choosing to TERMINATE that are making a choice of convenience over the choice TO sacrifice of themselves... the choice to raise is making the choice to sacrifice in that choice OF convenience.... it is quite evident that you have no clue what a choice of convenience is

When a woman chooses to terminate an innocent life... it is not because she cares for it or respects life... it is indeed because of her WANT, her OPPORTUNITY, her CONVENIENCE, her ACCOMMODATION, her COMFORT... much like when a murderer takes a life for their entertainment, their want, their opportunity, their pleasure

I am twisting nothing. I'm pointing out the blatant ignorance and hypocrisy in your own words.

First - in judging that some human life as more value than other human life through some nebulous standard of "innocence" as if that subjective yardstick confers greater value.

Second - in determining that women who opt not to complete a pregnancy are doing so because of "want, opportunity, convenience, accommodation and comfort" as if that is all that goes into a decision of termination. As if that is all bringing a child into this world is about. Pretty easy to decide for someone else from the high seat of judgement isn't? You sure must know their motivations because you sure has hell don't have to walk in her shoes, you can simply judge.

There is only one consistent moral view possible: either all human life is sacred and worth preserving or none is - because anything in between is arbritrary and subjective. That means no to abortion, no to war, no to capital punishment.

Do you have the balls to admit your own hypocrisy here?

At least I'm not going to pretend there is something inherently sacred about human life in isolation.

You are a fucking moron....

The all or nothing liberal... except when your exception applies... as in your support for abortion....

Innocence is not a subjective thing... you either are a murderer who takes life purposely of an innocent, or you are not a murderer... It's not like I am calling for executing idiot liberals or petty theft artists... when you take a life in the act of murder, you forfeit your right to your own life... a murderous piece of shit has made the decision themselves that life means nothing, hence their life means nothing....

There are a ton of things behind the RAISING of a child.. the decision to terminate is either in a life and death decision, or a decision of convenience... there is no in between... it is a choice about saving one's life... or a decision about feelings and workable situations.... all the other things in your little feeble mind that you deem as reasons, are all about the feelings or the wants or workable choices

I am not judging someone who does not want a child or feels bad that they are pregnant in an untimely way of some sort... I m judging anyone who will terminate an innocent life that is in it's most vulnerable state...

And did I not state many posts ago that the desperate 'war' path would be taken.... now the lefty will bring in the 'being pro life means you must be against war' bullshit... tell that to the innocents murdered and slaughtered by enemies we have fought in war after war after war.. tell that to those who we have delivered from those situations before the tyrants got a chance to kill them as well... and being a person who has been there, you don't know shit about taking a life in war.. and as hard as it can be... to take a life in your defense, your country's defense, or in defense of the innocents you are trying to help is not something to regret.. it's not something to be proud of, but nothing to regret... you have zero idea about the military, war, or the battlefield... and if you were thrown into it, you would most probably be the one rocking and crying in the corner.... I have the stones, balls, or major league marbles.. it is ones like you who can turn on the vulnerable unborn that have microscopic testicles

The only hypocrisy here is on your side... I have been consistent the entire time... you are either an innocent or you are a murderer.. and a sane society rids itself of its maniacal murderers and ensures that those actions have ZERO chance of happening again by that murderer.. it is you who back pedals and finds excuses and tries to guilt someone into supporting the elimination of the vulnerable unborn... you should try and lay that same guilt onto someone actually callous enough to murder a vulnerable unborn child

 

[Harry Dresden]

No...it doesn't. But it does mean it isn't science and if it isn't science it should not be taught as science.

point taken....but think of the science that would have to be known for a "God" or a Superior Civilization to create a planet with myriads of life forms on it....thats all im pointing out....and since i saw on C-Span once a science Symposium were a member of the audience asked the Panelist..... if we ever get to the point were we can travel to other Systems, would doing something like this be something that would be tried....most of the panelist thought it would be something that would be Entertained.....at least discussed....

 

[Harry Dresden]

as i asked before ....and you were stumped then.....give me absolute proof that there is no transcendent undetectable magic elephant penis in Harry Dresden's ass.....

i cant.....your fucking head is in the way....so your stumped on that question also....

 

[Charles Stucker]

I haven't seen anyone yet strictly define what or who the "Christian right" is. Is that anyone who is a Christian and doesn't see things the same way that the lefts do?

Is it a more specific group of people who have a far right belief system that doesn't even agree with the general right?

I'll tell you what the "right" as apposed to the "left" wants to do. You can call it an agenda if you want to, but I don't believe it is written anywhere but in the true American hearts that they carry in their bodies. They believe the people need to have far more to say about what Government is doing. They believe that the government needs to be cut down to size. They believe that America is falling quickly into leftist immorality and decay, and that we need to clean up the country, raise the standards back to a respectable level, and get back to being the "We the people" who are the government.

That is the agenda. and I get it that the leftists don't want any part of that. That is why I will be voting right in November, 100%.

The far left does not want that, but they don't want to admit that their vision involves the government taking over nearly every aspect of our lives.
Want a job? The Government will tell you where to work, how long to work, what to do, and what you make.
Want a home? The Government will tell you where to get a house, finance it for you (on a fifty year plan because with wage controls and high taxes you'll be lucky to pay the loan on a 600 square foot hut any faster)
Want Health Care? The Government will tell you what doctor you may use and what care your situation warrants.
Want a Car? The Government will tell you that Carbon emissions for the US are too high and that you cannot have a car, but they have a very nice plan for bicycles if it is too far to the grocery. Don't worry about work, your government chosen home will be in walking distance of your government chosen job.

That is the end route of socialist control, it is where the Soviet Union went, and it is not a good place to be.

But the liberal left does not want to believe they could be wrong so they concoct elaborate fantasies to justify their faith in socialism.

 

[Coyote]

You are a fucking moron....

And you're a fucking hack. Now that we've gotten the anticipated name-calling out of the way, lets continue.

The all or nothing liberal... except when your exception applies... as in your support for abortion....

Whoa. Back up a moment Sparky. All or nothing? "MY" exception?

I stand by my statement that the only truly ethical "pro-life" position both anti-capital punishment and anti-abortion. I'm not the one hypocritically pretending to protect "innocent" life. I'm not "pro-life" so I'm not pretending human life is sacred while in reality, claiming some human life has a higher value than other human life.

Innocence is not a subjective thing... you either are a murderer who takes life purposely of an innocent, or you are not a murderer... It's not like I am calling for executing idiot liberals or petty theft artists... when you take a life in the act of murder, you forfeit your right to your own life... a murderous piece of shit has made the decision themselves that life means nothing, hence their life means nothing....

Innocence - according to your view - is determined by the state and it's laws, which means it's fallable and that capital punishment is not restricted to just murder nor evenly and "justly" applied. That makes it subjective not objective. That is why I say innocence has no part in determining the value of a life.

There are a ton of things behind the RAISING of a child.. the decision to terminate is either in a life and death decision, or a decision of convenience... there is no in between... it is a choice about saving one's life... or a decision about feelings and workable situations.... all the other things in your little feeble mind that you deem as reasons, are all about the feelings or the wants or workable choices

EXACTLY. Thank you for making my point. And, in case you didn't know it,, every pregnancy carries with it the risk of mortality or significant complications for the mother. The choice of whether to continue the pregnancy belongs with the mother because she is the one that ultimately must pay the price economically, emotionally, and healthwise. Not YOU.

I am not judging someone who does not want a child or feels bad that they are pregnant in an untimely way of some sort... I m judging anyone who will terminate an innocent life that is in it's most vulnerable state...

You are judging someone by presuming the decision is based only on "convenience"... and assuming that no thought or emotion goes into it.

And did I not state many posts ago that the desperate 'war' path would be taken.... now the lefty will bring in the 'being pro life means you must be against war' bullshit... tell that to the innocents murdered and slaughtered by enemies we have fought in war after war after war.. tell that to those who we have delivered from those situations before the tyrants got a chance to kill them as well... and being a person who has been there, you don't know shit about taking a life in war.. and as hard as it can be... to take a life in your defense, your country's defense, or in defense of the innocents you are trying to help is not something to regret.. it's not something to be proud of, but nothing to regret... you have zero idea about the military, war, or the battlefield... and if you were thrown into it, you would most probably be the one rocking and crying in the corner.... I have the stones, balls, or major league marbles.. it is ones like you who can turn on the vulnerable unborn that have microscopic testicles

You don't know shit about me. Stick to what you know and stop generalizing and ASSuming generic "Lefty" talking points. All that garbage above has nothing to do with any points I have made thus far.

The only hypocrisy here is on your side... I have been consistent the entire time... you are either an innocent or you are a murderer.. and a sane society rids itself of its maniacal murderers and ensures that those actions have ZERO chance of happening again by that murderer.. it is you who back pedals and finds excuses and tries to guilt someone into supporting the elimination of the vulnerable unborn... you should try and lay that same guilt onto someone actually callous enough to murder a vulnerable unborn child

No, the hypocrisy lies in the claim of being "pro-life" and using a state-defined determination of "innocence" to place a value on human life or those who object to capital punishment based on the value of human life while supporting abortion. I have a lot of respect for people like the Quakers - anti-abortion, anti-war, anti-capital punishment. No hypocrisy.

 

[DiamondDave]

First you claim falsely things along the lines of shared blood etc... showing you know nothing

Then trying to conclude that someone being a proven murderer is subjective instead of objective...

Then trying to deny your exceptions.. because you have come out in support of abortion.... then try and use the 'all or nothing' approach to being pro-life.... well guess what sparky, I am pro innocent life... as in preserving the lives of those who are not maniacal murderers... it's simple... you support elimination of a life that has done nothing to threaten and is doing nothing to threaten the life of another and that has not eliminated the life of another.... and you try and justify this with 'every pregnancy has a risk'... well, every breath has a risk too, winger... as does every step and every time you fucking chew.... does not give you the right to take the life of someone else or the developing human within you

I have respect for those who are totally committed to life.. I can accept someone who is against abortion and against the death penalty, even if I do not agree with that stance... but someone who is anti-death penalty and pro-abortion sickens me (which you have shown thru your statements repeatedly).. and yes, you sicken me

So you don't misconstrue.. I value no murderer... and while not every murder will be put to death and while every person convicted of murder will not be put to death.. every person who has been proven thru DNA and other corroborating evidence to have committed murder should indeed be put to death... a sane society eliminates it's maniacal murderers

the decision to terminate is either in a life and death decision, or a decision of convenience... there is no in between... it is a choice about saving one's life... or a decision about feelings and workable situations.... all the other things in your little feeble mind that you deem as reasons, are all about the feelings or the wants or workable choices

The choice of whether to continue the pregnancy belongs with the mother because she is the one that ultimately must pay the price economically, emotionally, and healthwise.

Which has shown that you recognize these are decisions of convenience and not of life and death.... and as with other choices of convenience, you do not get to arbitrarily take another life of an innocent because of it.... these decisions for abortions are not in self defense, and not to prevent harm, they are because of FEELINGS and WORRIES and OBLIGATIONS and other similar things... in cases where the mother's life is threatened (and not just like every breath is a threat to every living person), self preservation and self defense is considered, just as when you take the life of another in self defense of your body, home, etc....

 

[Coyote]

First you claim falsely things along the lines of shared blood etc... showing you know nothing

Except, there is a very small amount of blood that is shared - which is why Rh disease can occur.

Not false, but yes, I was wrong in the amount of sharing.

Then trying to conclude that someone being a proven murderer is subjective instead of objective...

Yet you completely skip over the fact that the courts have been wrong and innocent people end up on death row and executed. I'm guessing that you don't care much for accuracy and a loosy-goosie interpretation of "proven murderer" leading to the killing of "innocent" life is a-okay with you.

Then trying to deny your exceptions.. because you have come out in support of abortion....

I'm in support of a woman's right to choose. That does not mean I support abortion. But then given your sloppy acceptance of "guilt" and "innocence' I suspect such distinctions to fly right over your head.

then try and use the 'all or nothing' approach to being pro-life.... well guess what sparky, I am pro innocent life...

Better correct that sweetcheeks: pro-some-innocent life. See above.

as in preserving the lives of those who are not maniacal murderers... it's simple... you support elimination of a life that has done nothing to threaten and is doing nothing to threaten the life of another and that has not eliminated the life of another....

Where have a said I support that? No - I support a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.

and you try and justify this with 'every pregnancy has a risk'... well, every breath has a risk too, winger... as does every step and every time you fucking chew.... does not give you the right to take the life of someone else or the developing human within you

Well, wingnut...your partisan championship for some innocent life is refreshing...except it's not. We each have the right to choose what risks to accept and what risks not to. So far, I don't see anyone with a shot gun aimed at your balls telling you what to do with YOUR body and that you have no choice in what risks you will accept.

I have respect for those who are totally committed to life.. I can accept someone who is against abortion and against the death penalty, even if I do not agree with that stance... but someone who is anti-death penalty and pro-abortion sickens me (which you have shown thru your statements repeatedly).. and yes, you sicken me

The only reason it sickens you is because you are pro-death penalty. You really don't care much if justice doesn't prevail, and an innocent person gets killed. Or perhaps you don't really want to think about it. You are willing allow the slaughter of innocents in war - because for some reason you feel the deaths of those innocents is justified. Do you see how perverted your own position is - wingnut?

My position is not perfect or consistent, which I've said already - but it has changed over time as I listen to better arguments. I no longer support abortion unquestioningly and I support certain restrictions. But when it comes to a matter of competing rights - which every pregnancy is - I don't base it on "innocence", but on the rights of the person that our law recognizes as a person. No one gives you - or anyone else - the right to control my body. Tradition and many religions define a new life as the moment it takes it's first breath - not the moment of conception. Conception can't even be measured.

So you don't misconstrue.. I value no murderer... and while not every murder will be put to death and while every person convicted of murder will not be put to death.. every person who has been proven thru DNA and other corroborating evidence to have committed murder should indeed be put to death... a sane society eliminates it's maniacal murderers

And not everyone put to death is guilty.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

as i asked before ....and you were stumped then.....give me absolute proof that there is no transcendent undetectable magic elephant penis in Harry Dresden's ass.....

i cant.....

There you have it apacaderms, you can't prove the pacaderm doesn't exist, therefore it exists.

 

[DiamondDave]

First you claim falsely things along the lines of shared blood etc... showing you know nothing

Except, there is a very small amount of blood that is shared - which is why Rh disease can occur.

Not false, but yes, I was wrong in the amount of sharing.

Then trying to conclude that someone being a proven murderer is subjective instead of objective...

Yet you completely skip over the fact that the courts have been wrong and innocent people end up on death row and executed. I'm guessing that you don't care much for accuracy and a loosy-goosie interpretation of "proven murderer" leading to the killing of "innocent" life is a-okay with you.



I'm in support of a woman's right to choose. That does not mean I support abortion. But then given your sloppy acceptance of "guilt" and "innocence' I suspect such distinctions to fly right over your head.



Better correct that sweetcheeks: pro-some-innocent life. See above.



Where have a said I support that? No - I support a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.



Well, wingnut...your partisan championship for some innocent life is refreshing...except it's not. We each have the right to choose what risks to accept and what risks not to. So far, I don't see anyone with a shot gun aimed at your balls telling you what to do with YOUR body and that you have no choice in what risks you will accept.

I have respect for those who are totally committed to life.. I can accept someone who is against abortion and against the death penalty, even if I do not agree with that stance... but someone who is anti-death penalty and pro-abortion sickens me (which you have shown thru your statements repeatedly).. and yes, you sicken me

The only reason it sickens you is because you are pro-death penalty. You really don't care much if justice doesn't prevail, and an innocent person gets killed. Or perhaps you don't really want to think about it. You are willing allow the slaughter of innocents in war - because for some reason you feel the deaths of those innocents is justified. Do you see how perverted your own position is - wingnut?

My position is not perfect or consistent, which I've said already - but it has changed over time as I listen to better arguments. I no longer support abortion unquestioningly and I support certain restrictions. But when it comes to a matter of competing rights - which every pregnancy is - I don't base it on "innocence", but on the rights of the person that our law recognizes as a person. No one gives you - or anyone else - the right to control my body. Tradition and many religions define a new life as the moment it takes it's first breath - not the moment of conception. Conception can't even be measured.

So you don't misconstrue.. I value no murderer... and while not every murder will be put to death and while every person convicted of murder will not be put to death.. every person who has been proven thru DNA and other corroborating evidence to have committed murder should indeed be put to death... a sane society eliminates it's maniacal murderers

And not everyone put to death is guilty.

You are still going backed on the debunked crap.. the RH disease is the result of an ABNORMALITY... not the normal system where NO BLOOD IS SHARED.... give it up

Courts have been wrong.. and this is without doubt.. hence nobody here called for the execution of all those convicted of murder... but those proven to be murderers... or are you that dense to not be able to tell the difference??

You support the right to take a life... not under the circumstances of life and death... that right to choose is the right to eliminate that life... hence in support of abortion.... whether you would want one in the situation or not

No... pro-innocent life.. .as I said....

You support the elimination of a developing life as a choice.... if it were only her body, it would only be her DNA signature... you have been called on this before.. and simply ignoring it does not help your case

I do care if an innocent gets killed.. hence, you ignorant motherfucker, why I did not call for the execution of every last person convicted of murder... try and keep up

Not everyone who HAS BEEN put to death in the PAST has been guilty... however, with the changes in science and evidence, that is getting closer to impossible to happen in the present or the future