The Political Agenda of the Christian Right

[DiamondDave]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

And an enemy combatant sleeping in the bunk is a threat to nobody at that particular time either.... but when they wake and do things, they are....

Jail is not a total prevention.. there are chances to hurt or murder others.. there is a chance for escape to have the rampage start again.... to eliminate the chance for a murderer to murder again, the elimination of that murderer is the only way to be sure.... the murderer devalued their life when they took the life of an innocent

 

[Coyote]

A hair will never develop into a human life. A sperm has the potential to under the right conditions.

biology 101, dude

Just as, under the right conditions, a fertilized egg can implant, and develop into an embryo and eventually be born.

A fertilized egg has a human genome and, once the union is complete, constitutes a distinct organism unto itself. Sperm has no human genome and is not a distinct organism unto itself.

We spent 5 pages or so explaining to this in the other thread. Go read it.

Agreed.

And no. I'm not going to waste time fishing through 51 frigging pages.

 

[Coyote]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

...and not all murderers commit another murder so that justification is null.

 

[DiamondDave]

A hair will never develop into a human life. A sperm has the potential to under the right conditions. Just as, under the right conditions, a fertilized egg can implant, and develop into an embryo and eventually be born.



Again. Is the life altering choice of giving birth to a baby and raising a child a mere "inconvenience" in your eyes?

Wrong... a sperm can never develop into a life

Sperm is all ready alive.

No it is not... just as a wiggling severed tail of a lizard is not 'alive'

Thank you for playing... please see Don Pardo for some lovely parting gifts

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Hating and demonizing Christians is an agenda too. Seriously,everyone has an agenda. No need to single out Christians. They have as much a right to promote their agenda as anyone else does. That's what America is all about in the end.

 

[Father Time]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

And an enemy combatant sleeping in the bunk is a threat to nobody at that particular time either.... but when they wake and do things, they are....

Jail is not a total prevention.. there are chances to hurt or murder others.. there is a chance for escape to have the rampage start again.... to eliminate the chance for a murderer to murder again, the elimination of that murderer is the only way to be sure.... the murderer devalued their life when they took the life of an innocent

Odds of someone sleeping waking up is close to 1.

Odds of a prisoner escaping solitary confinement is a lot lot less.

Oh and if you come across a sleeping soldier the correct course of action would be to take them prisoner and not kill them.

The only way to be sure anyone won't kill someone is to murder them so why don't we start executing anyone who commits a crime beyond a traffic violation.

Any more weak excuses?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

Why should honest men be forced to feed and clothe criminal elements a who can never be trusted in society?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

A hair will never develop into a human life. A sperm has the potential to under the right conditions. Just as, under the right conditions, a fertilized egg can implant, and develop into an embryo and eventually be born.



Again. Is the life altering choice of giving birth to a baby and raising a child a mere "inconvenience" in your eyes?

Wrong... a sperm can never develop into a life

Sperm is all ready alive.

alive =/= a life

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Wrong... a sperm can never develop into a life

Sperm is all ready alive.

No it is not... just as a wiggling severed tail of a lizard is not 'alive'

Thank you for playing... please see Don Pardo for some lovely parting gifts

The cells of the tail are alive. Sperm = cell. A germ cell.

 

[Coyote]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

And an enemy combatant sleeping in the bunk is a threat to nobody at that particular time either.... but when they wake and do things, they are....

Jail is not a total prevention.. there are chances to hurt or murder others.. there is a chance for escape to have the rampage start again.... to eliminate the chance for a murderer to murder again, the elimination of that murderer is the only way to be sure.... the murderer devalued their life when they took the life of an innocent

Jail is not a total prevention however:

not all murderers murder again (or go on a "rampage" - in fact, serial killers are relatively rare)

the death penalty has the potential to kill "innocents"


So are you willing to sacrifice possible innocents in hopes of preventing the chance that a murderer might escape and murder again thus saving an innocent life? An innocent life for an innocent life?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

So I ask the question again...why adapt? Why evolve at all? Why not just stay in the form as God created it? Or as nature's accident created it? And if that reason is because of adaptation to surroundings, climates, etc., then why are we concerned about planet change? Won't we just evolve further?

If you're using a Biblical argument, its because the Creator cares about even the sparrows. Evolution allows animals to adapt to a changing world.

What's neat is that Evolution actually helps the Noah's Ark story make more sense. Without evolution the Noah's Ark story borders on the ludicrous. With Evolution, the story makes more sense as Noah needed to only save enough biological diversity to ensure the repopulation of the animal kingdom.

As for the second question: We care about climate change and other changing conditions because evolution is not quick. If the environment changes faster than a species can adapt, the species dies. That's the most likely theory as to what happened to the dinosaurs.

 

[Coyote]

Wrong... a sperm can never develop into a life... only the complete genetic DNA makeup in a fertilized egg can be a life... now the genetic info, as stated before, than cloning has shown can be put into an egg without the typical egg/sperm combination... and that is still a human life, when developing in the womb

As stated, you ignorant dweeb, stating the term inconvenience is showing the situation of the person choosing to terminate a life when their life or the life of another is not threatened.. the choice in the vast majority of abortions is simply because they do not WANT to have the child... I.E. it is an inconvenience to THEM... though I count my children as a blessing, no matter how hard the task of raising them is and no matter how much I have to sacrifice for them (including my own life)

Ah...the old ad hominem again....

When *you* relegate the ending of a pregnancy to a matter of "inconvenience" then you are likewise relegating all decisions, angst, choices pertaining to pregnancy, ending it or going on and having the child to one of "convenience".

Neither the ending of a pregnancy nor the raising of a child should ever be mere convenience and despite the wingnut talking points, I doubt it is to most women.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The agenda of Christian conservatives is relatively limited and they believe that much of it can be accomplished through the federal courts. Broadly speaking, their agenda is as follows:

The agenda of Leftist Liberals is relatively limited and they believe that much of it can be accomplished through the federal courts. Broadly speaking, their agenda is as follows:
Tax
Spend

There fixed it for ya

Which is slightly more responsible than the GOP agenda which is Borrow and Spend.

 

[Father Time]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

Why should honest men be forced to feed and clothe criminal elements a who can never be trusted in society?

So you think it should be OK to kill them because taking care of them is an inconvenience?

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[theHawk]

The agenda of Christian conservatives is relatively limited and they believe that much of it can be accomplished through the federal courts. Broadly speaking, their agenda is as follows:

They want to control the right of women to have abortions.

They want to ban all forms of gay marriage.

They want to prevent the teaching of safe sex in schools and to encourage home schooling.

They want to ban the use of contraceptives.

They want to halt stem cell reserach using human embryos.

They want to stop the teaching of evolution and/or to start the teaching of intelligent design.

They want to bring God into the public square and eliminate the separation of church and state.

They want to overturn the legality of living wills.

They want to control the sexual content of cable and network television, radio and the Internet.

They want to eliminate an "activist" judiciary that limits or impinges on their agenda by placing God-fearing judges on the bench who will promote their sincerely held beliefs.

From "Conservatives Without Conscience" by John W. Dean (p. 109)

I don't know about y'all, but this doesn't sound too good to me.

Comments?

Wow, almost 10 strawmen all in one post!!

They want to control the right of women to have abortions. - Where is it written in our laws that abortion is a right?

They want to ban all forms of gay marriage. - I've never heard of any proposal to "ban gay marriage". No state outlaws gay marriage. The so-called "bans" are simply the state refusing to legally recognize those "marriages".

They want to prevent the teaching of safe sex in schools and to encourage home schooling.
They want to ban the use of contraceptives. - Its true that some extreme religious folks want these, but most conservatives aren't going that far.

They want to halt stem cell reserach using human embryos.- I'll give you that one. Most religious folks think it is immoral to use human embryos for that sort of stuff, espcially when there are other forms of stem cell research that are being done without the use of embryos.

They want to stop the teaching of evolution and/or to start the teaching of intelligent design. - Again, perhaps the extreme religious might want this, but not most normal religious. Wouldn't hurt to teach both IMO.

They want to bring God into the public square and eliminate the separation of church and state. - the "separation of church and state" is not in any of our laws or Constitution. Many quotes from the founding fathers demonstrate quite clearly that God should be in the public square, not swept under the rug and ignored.

They want to overturn the legality of living wills. - really? Never even heard of this absurd idea.

They want to control the sexual content of cable and network television, radio and the Internet. - I've never heard they want control over sexual content. Maybe the ability to shield their children from it but not control over all of it.

They want to eliminate an "activist" judiciary that limits or impinges on their agenda by placing God-fearing judges on the bench who will promote their sincerely held beliefs. --and liberals don't want activist judges who will promote their agenda.

 

[Father Time]

"Many quotes from the founding fathers demonstrate quite clearly that God should be in the public square, not swept under the rug and ignored."

Such as? The guy who wrote the declaration of independence liked the separation of church and state

The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom - Religious Freedom Page

 

[☭proletarian☭]

"but the elimination of murderers is the act of saving a life..."

Bullshit.

Once they're in jail or solitary confinement they are a threat to no one, when you kill them you do so only because you want to, not because you have any real need to do so.

Why should honest men be forced to feed and clothe criminal elements a who can never be trusted in society?

So you think it should be OK to kill them because taking care of them is an inconvenience?

Now where have I heard that before?

Inconvenience?

Murderers and rapists should not be rewarded with free room and board paid for by their victims' taxdollars.


Why should a woman be forced to pay for her rapist's room and board?

 

[Coyote]

Why should honest men be forced to feed and clothe criminal elements a who can never be trusted in society?

So you think it should be OK to kill them because taking care of them is an inconvenience?

Now where have I heard that before?

Inconvenience?

Murderers and rapists should not be rewarded with free room and board paid for by their victims' taxdollars.


Why should a woman be forced to pay for her rapist's room and board?

I wouldn't consider the average prison to be "free room and board". That's a bit disengenious.

Inconvenience.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Really? Prisoners pay for their room and board now?

Things have changed

 

[Father Time]

Why should honest men be forced to feed and clothe criminal elements a who can never be trusted in society?

So you think it should be OK to kill them because taking care of them is an inconvenience?

Now where have I heard that before?

Inconvenience?

Murderers and rapists should not be rewarded with free room and board paid for by their victims' taxdollars.


Why should a woman be forced to pay for her rapist's room and board?

A reward? Oh yeah you get your freedoms taken away, can't leave the building and have to eat bad food for whatever your stay is.

If it was a reward the poor would be committing crimes to get in and yet they aren't doing that.

But what's the alternative? We can't send them to Australia or Siberia anymore and we want to remove them from society so what else can we do besides execution for everything (which is immoral and frankly a stupid idea) or something that's akin to prison.

You don't want to send them to jail, fine. That doesn't suddenly change what execution entails or the morality behind it.

Although still your argument amounts to we should be able to kill them rather than taking care of them financially.