The Catholic Church doesnt teach the substitution theology anymore

zaangalewa

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True Jews and Christians are very different religions. Even Catholics, Protestants and Evangelicals are very different.
You make a difference between Protestants and Evangelicals? My three-way split is Orthodox, Catholic and Protestants (including Evangelicals). And true Jews as well as true Christians don't have religious problems with each other.

 
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norwegen

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This is why people laugh at Christians and the church. Christians make the Scriptures say what they do not actually say.
People laugh because they act as if the Bible was written in modern English for modern culture. I always recommend returning to the original languages and the original cultures.
People laugh because Christians don't know the Bible. Instead of making excuses for no knowing that God divorced Israel or that Jesus became a curse, I suggest you read the entire book. Many chapters have some interesting details.
 

norwegen

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Even without the Bible presenting a subjective view of ancient Israel's history and laying out a vision for her demise, a reasonable person should not insist that that people still exist. The ancient Egyptians don't exist, either. Neither do the ancient Greeks. Nor any other ancient people whose culture has evaporated and whose pasts lie in ruins. A temple people in Canaan are no longer with us, and so to insist that they cannot be replaced is just foolish.
 

LittleNipper

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So the Catholics now teach that Jews are God's choosen [sic] people.
Well, at least they got THAT right.
HOWEVER, by "chosen" GOD means collectively (nationally) speaking and not individually. The MESSIAH still came to save ALL sinners and this includes Jews as well. This of course means coming to the realization of one's sinful nature and placing one's faith in the MESSIAH for one's salvation ---- and not on trying to keep the LAW and not by making animal sacrifices. These were only a TYPE (a representation). JESUS was/is the real deal. HIS sacrifice was permanent and forever------ but it must be accepted to be applied to one's credit.
 

Meriweather

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This of course means coming to the realization of one's sinful nature and placing one's faith in the MESSIAH for one's salvation ---- and not on trying to keep the LAW and not by making animal sacrifices.
All should remain aware that we are to remain obedient to the will of God. Very early on this raised the question, "What is the will of God?" We were given the Ten Commandments, but with each Commandment, more questions arose. The Law grew around our (mankind's) questions.

What seemed to happen at this point is that when The Law was broken, punishment ensued, and along with that, stigma. Jesus shook his head at that, announcing, Sins are forgiven. I am sure he did not mean, "Sin is without consequence", but I do think his intent was that punishment and stigma need not be a part of that consequence.

It should also be kept in mind the symbolism Jews used to assure the people their sins were indeed forgiven and remembered no more. Temple sacrifice was a statement of wrong-doing, a desire to do better, and the belief that God, indeed, forgives sin. By the way, animal sacrifice was not a requirement for the forgiveness of sins.
 

fncceo

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Doesn't really effect me one way or another.
Just out of curiosity, you don't believe in sin, or you don't believe forgiveness is needed?
What I believe is inconsequential to you because I'm not trying to sell you on it.

Just realize that what might seem to be inviolate truth to you is just poorly written scifi to someone else.
 

Meriweather

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What I believe is inconsequential to you because I'm not trying to sell you on it.

Just realize that what might seem to be inviolate truth to you is just poorly written scifi to someone else.
Hm. This is a discussion forum and all we are doing is exchanging points of view. Not here to buy, not here to sell, only to enjoy another perspective of life. I know my own perspective, so I find a vacation into the perspective of someone enjoyable.

And speaking of sci fi, I do enjoy Anne McCaffrey's Dragon series.
 

fncceo

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know my own perspective, so I find a vacation into the perspective of someone enjoyable.
My entire life, someone has always been trying to share their perspective on religion with me, always in the name of "love".

I can only think of a few things less enjoyable so I will never do the same to others.

Believe what you want to believe, I encourage you do to so. I will take pleasure in the fact that you don't believe what I do.
 

zaangalewa

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... Show us in the Bible where Rome arrested Jesus for treason, and what Jesus did under Rome's laws that constituted treason. ...
The question of Pontius Pilate “Are you the King of the Jews?” is the equivalent to this what you call "treason" - but Jesus was no Roman - so the word "treason" makes not any sense in this context. The background is that only the Romans had the right (=the injustice) to define who is king under their augustus. So the question means also "Are you a leading rebel and/or terrorist?" The Roman empire had been ful of crosses everywhere. The execution method "to crucify" was reserved for minor beings, who were not citizens of Rome.
 
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