Zone1 Mary's sinlessness

[BreezeWood]

Then that clears all Jews and Christians. Thank you.

forgetting islam, the same religion as the other two proves otherwise for them ... as does recorded history of the crucifiers. c-bear.

 

[Cougarbear]

forgetting islam, the same religion as the other two proves otherwise for them ... as does recorded history of the crucifiers. c-bear.

Sticks and stones… try your stupid hatred on someone else. Doesn’t work with me.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Even with the best intention's one cannot prove Mary is sinless from the Bible

ALL have dinner and fallen short of the glory of God

 

[Cougarbear]

ALL have dinner and fallen short of the glory of God

Catholics don’t believe so. It’s all made up faulty and circular logic and reasoning. But tell that to them.

 

[BreezeWood]

Who are the innocent you claim?

who do not dwell ...

in forgeries and fallacies.

Sticks and stones… try your stupid hatred on someone else. Doesn’t work with me.

proves that to be you, c-bear - crucifiers, throughout history and their phony desert religions.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholics don’t believe so. It’s all made up faulty and circular logic and reasoning. But tell that to them.

Kecharitomene. This Greek word describes an ongoing, permanent state of grace as the result of a past action. Mary's state of the fullness of grace is the result of a past action of God who preserved her from all sin. (Note Mary called God her savior.)

I have a theory why some cannot accept Mary as never sinning. Jealousy. (In a whiny voice: "If God preserved Mary from sin, why couldn't He preserve me from sin...I'm just as good....")

Think about it. We have an angel, a messenger straight from God, who addressed Mary as Kecharitomene, as being in a permanent state of grace based on a past action Mary attributed to God. Does it even make sense to suggest, Well, Paul said all have sinned, and Paul, a man, clearly has the right of it over an angel and a woman.

Now those who feel that great need to insist Mary sinned, go for it, soothe yourself. But stop short of saying Catholic belief is made up of faulty and circular logic. Catholic belief is based on both scripture and apostolic/early church tradition.


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There is also another Greek word for being filled with grace, and that is pleres charitos which was used to describe Stephen at a specific time--i.e., at the time of his martyrdom.

 

[Ace Nova]

Nope. We do what the Lord commanded and you don’t. The Latter-day Saints is there to distinguish between now and when Jesus established the Church while on the earth. That’s it. Not anything about pride. Still haven’t explained who Catholic is and why don’t do what Jesus commanded.

Catholic means "Universal" - from Greek - "On The Whole - According To The Whole"

The earliest evidence of the use of that term is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote: "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Ignatius means by the Catholic Church 'the aggregate of all the Christian congregations' (Swete, Apostles Creed, p. 76). So too the letter of the Church of Smyrna is addressed to all the congregations of the Holy Catholic Church in every place. And this primitive sense of 'universal' the word has never lost, although in the latter part of the second century it began to receive the secondary sense of 'orthodox' as opposed to 'heretical'.

 

[Cougarbear]

proves that to be you, c-bear - crucifiers, throughout history and their phony desert religions.

Nothing is more phony than your religion...

 

[Cougarbear]

Kecharitomene. This Greek word describes an ongoing, permanent state of grace as the result of a past action. Mary's state of the fullness of grace is the result of a past action of God who preserved her from all sin. (Note Mary called God her savior.)

I have a theory why some cannot accept Mary as never sinning. Jealousy. (In a whiny voice: "If God preserved Mary from sin, why couldn't He preserve me from sin...I'm just as good....")

Think about it. We have an angel, a messenger straight from God, who addressed Mary as Kecharitomene, as being in a permanent state of grace based on a past action Mary attributed to God. Does it even make sense to suggest, Well, Paul said all have sinned, and Paul, a man, clearly has the right of it over an angel and a woman.

Now those who feel that great need to insist Mary sinned, go for it, soothe yourself. But stop short of saying Catholic belief is made up of faulty and circular logic. Catholic belief is based on both scripture and apostolic/early church tradition.


****

There is also another Greek word for being filled with grace, and that is pleres charitos which was used to describe Stephen at a specific time--i.e., at the time of his martyrdom.

What past action? There is none. There is a state that someone can obtain "Your calling and election made sure." But, even that comes wiith a stronger warning that if a person who has had their calling and election made sure sins against the Holy Ghost, your calling is with Lucifer for all time and all eternity in Perdition. So, how does one receive their Sanctification with the calling and election made sure? Everyone else has to live by faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal Savior. One who has their calling and election made sure has seen a vision and know for an empirical fact that Jesus is the Christ. They no longer live by faith. Up until Mary received her calling and election made sure, she sinned after she was about 8 years of age when a person can actually sin.

 

[Cougarbear]

Catholic means "Universal" - from Greek - "On The Whole - According To The Whole"

The earliest evidence of the use of that term is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote: "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Ignatius means by the Catholic Church 'the aggregate of all the Christian congregations' (Swete, Apostles Creed, p. 76). So too the letter of the Church of Smyrna is addressed to all the congregations of the Holy Catholic Church in every place. And this primitive sense of 'universal' the word has never lost, although in the latter part of the second century it began to receive the secondary sense of 'orthodox' as opposed to 'heretical'.

Yes, 16 years teaching at a Catholic high school I learned all about this. But, even the priests and religion teachers could never explain why the church did not name themselves in the name of Jesus Christ when Jesus himself said do all in his name.

 

[Ace Nova]

Yes, 16 years teaching at a Catholic high school I learned all about this. But, even the priests and religion teachers could never explain why the church did not name themselves in the name of Jesus Christ when Jesus himself said do all in his name.

Out of the entire New Testament - thousands and thousands of words and phrases - post the total amount of times Jesus said "To only do all things in his name"

 

[Cougarbear]

Out of the entire New Testament - thousands and thousands of words and phrases - post the total amount of times Jesus said "To only do all things in his name"

To a true believer and follower servant of the Lord, how many times should he have to command something as important as naming His Church?

 

[BreezeWood]

Nothing is more phony than your religion...

the heavenly religion of antiquity - the triumph of good vs evil - given to a&e as the goal to accomplish for judgement and admission to the everlasting ...

- its obvious which one c-bear the crucifier has chosen.

 

[Ace Nova]

To a true believer and follower servant of the Lord, how many times should he have to command something as important as naming His Church?

That's a new one. Please post a passage that has Jesus saying to name his church "Jesus...."

 

[Meriweather]

What past action? There is none. There is a state that someone can obtain "Your calling and election made sure." But, even that comes wiith a stronger warning that if a person who has had their calling and election made sure sins against the Holy Ghost, your calling is with Lucifer for all time and all eternity in Perdition. So, how does one receive their Sanctification with the calling and election made sure? Everyone else has to live by faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal Savior. One who has their calling and election made sure has seen a vision and know for an empirical fact that Jesus is the Christ. They no longer live by faith. Up until Mary received her calling and election made sure, she sinned after she was about 8 years of age when a person can actually sin.

According to the Gospel, the words of the angel and Mary herself, sin was not an issue. She had been filled with grace; she proclaimed God was her savior before Jesus was born.

People who dismiss/change the Biblical words of the angel and Mary, should ask themselves why they don't also dismiss the Biblical words of Paul?

If you believe Mary sinned, I could not care less. My point is that you cannot claim the Church "made up" something "with faulty and circular logic". Scripture matches the Church; the Church matches scripture. And so does early church tradition.

 

[Meriweather]

To a true believer and follower servant of the Lord, how many times should he have to command something as important as naming His Church?

Mormons had no other choice. Everyone knew that the Catholic Church was founded by and centered on Jesus. On the other hand, the Mormon Church was founded by Joseph Smith, not by Jesus. So, why not attach his name to some buildings.

 

[Cougarbear]

the heavenly religion of antiquity - the triumph of good vs evil - given to a&e as the goal to accomplish for judgement and admission to the everlasting ...

- its obvious which one c-bear the crucifier has chosen.

You are a phony…making up a real desert religion. How much do you charge?

 

[Cougarbear]

That's a new one. Please post a passage that has Jesus saying to name his church "Jesus...."

I’ve posted two or three scriptures stating do all things in his name. Why did you name the church Catholic? That’s not his name.

 

[Cougarbear]

According to the Gospel, the words of the angel and Mary herself, sin was not an issue. She had been filled with grace; she proclaimed God was her savior before Jesus was born.

People who dismiss/change the Biblical words of the angel and Mary, should ask themselves why they don't also dismiss the Biblical words of Paul?

If you believe Mary sinned, I could not care less. My point is that you cannot claim the Church "made up" something "with faulty and circular logic". Scripture matches the Church; the Church matches scripture. And so does early church tradition.

Why would sin be an issue? Grace is a gift to all who take upon them the name of Jesus Christ. She was a young woman meaning celibate. That’s the purity referred to by the angels. Not normal day to day sins like being lazy or having a bad temper day. Only one person has walked the earth old enough to sin but never sinned. That is Jesus Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

Mormons had no other choice. Everyone knew that the Catholic Church was founded by and centered on Jesus. On the other hand, the Mormon Church was founded by Joseph Smith, not by Jesus. So, why not attach his name to some buildings.

Wrong again. Jesus Christ founded his Church 2000 years ago and and to restore it again to the earth in 1830 due to apostasy of his original Church.