Support Israel? Yes or no?

[Phoenall]

nnn

Why doesn't the civilized world follow that logic? because the civilized world is not the Middle East. In here, the more "humanity" and "charity" you show, the more they see it as weakness and attack you. Welcome to our neighborhood.

So the rules are different if israel is involved. Seems to be a common answer for israel apologists

The rules are different when Israel is involved because the world made it that way. Israel is allowed to only be attacked but never properly defend itself. It's not Israel who came up with this equation.

Oh please. It's always Israel the poor victim of the rest of the world. They have their share of responsibility for the problems in that region too, it's not just the Palestinians.

So detail just what the problems are that Israel is responsible for

 

[Phoenall]

Why doesn't the civilized world follow that logic? because the civilized world is not the Middle East. In here, the more "humanity" and "charity" you show, the more they see it as weakness and attack you. Welcome to our neighborhood.

So the rules are different if israel is involved. Seems to be a common answer for israel apologists

The rules are different when Israel is involved because the world made it that way. Israel is allowed to only be attacked but never properly defend itself. It's not Israel who came up with this equation.

Israel isn't allowed to 'properly defend itself?'

Israel keeps a people imprisoned. They control their economy, their access to resources, their movement. Israel throws a fit when they fight back and kill dozens of civilians for every israeli death. Hundreds are detained without cause, livelihoods and homes destroyed. Now they've given the go ahead to shoot rock throwers.

And what happens to israel when they do that? Nothing. Not a damn thing. In fact, the united states rewards their fighting with more money and weapons.

So how is it you think israel isn't allowed to defend itself?

That is what happens when you resort to terrorism and violence to wipe out the Jews. And yiu have just stated that Israel should not be allowed to defend its innocent children from these attacks because the Palestinians get the shitty end of the stick.
Now what law makes it illegal to police your borders and stop any illegal entry, because that is what Israel are doing. The Palestinians do not have any rights to enter Israel and can be shot if they try to enter
Ever thought if the Palestinians stopped firing illegal rockets from civilian areas then they would not get killed in the returning fire

 

[P F Tinmore]

That's a nice deflection but it doesn't alter the facts - Gaza did not belong to Israel.

According to international law of 1923 the land was granted to the Jews as their NATIONal home. This law has not been repealed and the treaty gives the coordinates of the borders, which include gaza, west bank and all of Jerusalem and the Golan heights.



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

According to international law of 1923 the land was granted to the Jews as their NATIONal home.​

Not true. The Jews were allowed to live in Palestine as Palestinians with the other Palestinian citizens.

In their NATIONal home that the land was granted for. The arab muslims received the lions share and called it Jordan.

The facts are above and you have never disproved them.

The Palestinians did not get any part of Jordan.

Didn't they then why was it called arab Palestine, and why was it originally part of the mandate of Palestine until it was taken as a separate issue ? The ruler of Jordan was a Saudi prince, but his subjects were all arab Palestinians .


Unless you can find a link proving this wrong ?

Who said?

 

[Phoenall]

Why should I give away something I gained in a fair battle, battled that I was never after, that was forced on me?

That's a deep question.

Indeed. It's a question covered by international law so we don't have to think too deeply

International law is irrelevant in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Actually, it's relevant when you can tell only Israel to follow it, but the fact that Palestinians run over babies and stab the elderly and launch rocket at the pregnant doesn't have to be treated by international law.

Oh bull. Israel benefits from International Law and there entire state derived from it. They use it when it suits them and cry victim when it doesn't. Stop pretending the Occupied Territories are anything BUT Occupied Territories and be honest for a change.

Take a look and respond

That is total propoganda and Ayalon's opinion is not what the Israeli courts have said.

Danny Ayalon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In a video titled “The Truth About the West Bank” released by the Israeli foreign ministry in June 2011, Ayalon presents a historical narrative meant to help wage the public diplomacy battle about Israel’s ongoing conflict with the Palestinians. In the video made in cooperation with StandWithUs, which is very similar to one released earlier by the Yesha council, the organization of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, Ayalon asks viewers to stop referring to the West Bank as “occupied territories”. “It is time for Israel to return to a ‘rights-based diplomacy’ and talk about the facts, rights, history and international law which are little known but give a dramatically different viewpoint to what is currently accepted,” he said after the video’s release.[41] After the video was posted online, Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian Authority’s top negotiator, denounced the video as a “falsified account of history and international law”, but refused to participate in a public debate on the issues raised in the video proposed by Ayalon.[42]

And when the ICJ is called upon to declare the legal aspects of land ownership and it finds in Israel's favour will you accept that as the end of the matter ?


This one thing shows that the Palestinians are clutching at straws and know they don't have any hope of winning

After the video was posted online, Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian Authority’s top negotiator, denounced the video as a “falsified account of history and international law”, but refused to participate in a public debate on the issues raised in the video proposed by Ayalon

He was scared of the truth becoming public record and losing everything when the world demanded the Palestinians go back home.

 

[Phoenall]

According to international law of 1923 the land was granted to the Jews as their NATIONal home. This law has not been repealed and the treaty gives the coordinates of the borders, which include gaza, west bank and all of Jerusalem and the Golan heights.



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory

PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.​

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

According to international law of 1923 the land was granted to the Jews as their NATIONal home.​

Not true. The Jews were allowed to live in Palestine as Palestinians with the other Palestinian citizens.

In their NATIONal home that the land was granted for. The arab muslims received the lions share and called it Jordan.

The facts are above and you have never disproved them.

The Palestinians did not get any part of Jordan.

Didn't they then why was it called arab Palestine, and why was it originally part of the mandate of Palestine until it was taken as a separate issue ? The ruler of Jordan was a Saudi prince, but his subjects were all arab Palestinians .


Unless you can find a link proving this wrong ?

Who said?

The LoN who held sovereignty over the land



The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate


ART 25

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.


IN BLACK AND WHITE JORDAN WAS PART OF PALESTINE

 

[Phoenall]

Israel keeps a people imprisoned. They control their economy, their access to resources, their movement. Israel throws a fit when they fight back and kill dozens of civilians for every israeli death. Hundreds are detained without cause, livelihoods and homes destroyed. Now they've given the go ahead to shoot rock throwers.

And what happens to israel when they do that? Nothing. Not a damn thing. In fact, the united states rewards their fighting with more money and weapons.

So how is it you think israel isn't allowed to defend itself?

Why shouldn't they shoot rock throwers ? If somebody was throwing rocks at me you know what I'd do ? I'd SHOOT THEM. Keep shooting, our Israeli friends. Take out as many of those raghead rock throwers as you can.. When they're all dead, there can be peace again.

I want you to think back pn the protests in Ferguson. Should the police have opened fire on the crowds?

Did the crowds draw weapons of any description, if so then the police should have opened fire to protect the lives of innocents

 

[Phoenall]

It may be propaganda, but it's doesn't mean it aint true. I believe the best propaganda is actual truth. You responded to the narrator instead of the content. Care to re-think that>

Propaganda contains seeds of truth, but it's distorted. The call to rename the "Occupied Territories" is a political push, not a legal one because the law doesn't support it.

Not yet because too many people see 181 as being law, when it wasn't.

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine was British territory before Irgun scum started biting the hand that saved and fed them. Imperial forces marched on the Nazis, freed the Jews and saved them from leaky ships they took to what is now called Israel. How were we thanked? Kidnappings, terrorism and, ultimately, the King David Hotel bombing. We didn't hang enough of the ungrateful bastards.

There is one solution to the problem of Hamas (and the Palestinans who elected them) >>

100% EXTERMINATION.

Wow. Well...that's one Pro-Israeli's position. You read Mein Kampf lately?

I've read it; Hitler was a doomed psycho loser from youth as his alcoholic father used to beat Adolf and mom to a bloody pulp on a nightly basic.

I heard he was a failed artist and that sent him off the rails.

He was a better than average landscape artist at a time when there were thousands of such artists around, so he had to give up his art and find a real job

 

[Phoenall]

Egypt lost the area in War...............As did Syria in the Golan heights.................They lost and lost territory in the War's by their design..........................Virtually every map on earth's boundaries were drawn in blood from Wars.............

Under the same deal.............why shouldn't we give back the West to Mexico.............We took it by force..................Who's demanding we give that back...............since Mexifornia is full of dumb ass liberals perhaps they should volunteer to give it back to Mexico............and show us the Might doesn't equal right.

Conquer by Conquest has been outlawed since the end of WWII.

How many times do you have to be told this, you ******* dolt?

Link to the actual law

How many times do we have to request you prove your claims

 

[Phoenall]

Then the law should change according to reality, since reality is just like it, REAL, and it's not to be changed to the law's definitions.

The reality is, there's only one solution to an occupation and that is to end it.

And the only way to end it is by mutual recognition and agreement. So why are the Palestinians refusing ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed. It's a question covered by international law so we don't have to think too deeply

International law is irrelevant in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Actually, it's relevant when you can tell only Israel to follow it, but the fact that Palestinians run over babies and stab the elderly and launch rocket at the pregnant doesn't have to be treated by international law.

Oh bull. Israel benefits from International Law and there entire state derived from it. They use it when it suits them and cry victim when it doesn't. Stop pretending the Occupied Territories are anything BUT Occupied Territories and be honest for a change.

Take a look and respond

That is total propoganda and Ayalon's opinion is not what the Israeli courts have said.

Danny Ayalon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In a video titled “The Truth About the West Bank” released by the Israeli foreign ministry in June 2011, Ayalon presents a historical narrative meant to help wage the public diplomacy battle about Israel’s ongoing conflict with the Palestinians. In the video made in cooperation with StandWithUs, which is very similar to one released earlier by the Yesha council, the organization of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank, Ayalon asks viewers to stop referring to the West Bank as “occupied territories”. “It is time for Israel to return to a ‘rights-based diplomacy’ and talk about the facts, rights, history and international law which are little known but give a dramatically different viewpoint to what is currently accepted,” he said after the video’s release.[41] After the video was posted online, Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian Authority’s top negotiator, denounced the video as a “falsified account of history and international law”, but refused to participate in a public debate on the issues raised in the video proposed by Ayalon.[42]

And when the ICJ is called upon to declare the legal aspects of land ownership and it finds in Israel's favour will you accept that as the end of the matter ?


This one thing shows that the Palestinians are clutching at straws and know they don't have any hope of winning

After the video was posted online, Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian Authority’s top negotiator, denounced the video as a “falsified account of history and international law”, but refused to participate in a public debate on the issues raised in the video proposed by Ayalon

He was scared of the truth becoming public record and losing everything when the world demanded the Palestinians go back home.

That old fart should let his niece debate.

Noura would kick Ayalon's ass in a debate.

 

[Lipush]

Then the law should change according to reality, since reality is just like it, REAL, and it's not to be changed to the law's definitions.

The reality is, there's only one solution to an occupation and that is to end it.

There is only one solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict and that is Israel's victory over the ones calling for its destruction.

 

[Lipush]

Why doesn't the civilized world follow that logic? because the civilized world is not the Middle East. In here, the more "humanity" and "charity" you show, the more they see it as weakness and attack you. Welcome to our neighborhood.

Pfft. That's a convenient excuse for Israel to hold and expand on land it never had any intention of giving back from the beginning. Be honest and call it what it is - theft. Don't pretend there is anything more noble than that.

In order for it to be theft, there needs to be an actual entity from which this was stolen. Look at the west bank, for instant. To who it beloged? Palestine? rubbish, of course, as there was never an actual state called Palestine. Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48. So if I didn't take it from any actual owner, since there was no owner of this, how can you call me a thief?

Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48.​

Whose land did Jordan occupy? If it was nobodies, why couldn't they just say it was theirs? And if it was nobodies, why is it occupied Palestinian territory now?

You cannot call occupation to something that is ownerless. And they (Jordan) never claimed it because it was never theirs, that's the things exactly. Why do their call it "Palestinian occupied territory"? for the same reason people belive Palestinians are originated in Philistines. Because they're misinformed.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why doesn't the civilized world follow that logic? because the civilized world is not the Middle East. In here, the more "humanity" and "charity" you show, the more they see it as weakness and attack you. Welcome to our neighborhood.

Pfft. That's a convenient excuse for Israel to hold and expand on land it never had any intention of giving back from the beginning. Be honest and call it what it is - theft. Don't pretend there is anything more noble than that.

In order for it to be theft, there needs to be an actual entity from which this was stolen. Look at the west bank, for instant. To who it beloged? Palestine? rubbish, of course, as there was never an actual state called Palestine. Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48. So if I didn't take it from any actual owner, since there was no owner of this, how can you call me a thief?

Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48.​

Whose land did Jordan occupy? If it was nobodies, why couldn't they just say it was theirs? And if it was nobodies, why is it occupied Palestinian territory now?

You cannot call occupation to something that is ownerless. And they (Jordan) never claimed it because it was never theirs, that's the things exactly. Why do their call it "Palestinian occupied territory"? for the same reason people belive Palestinians are originated in Philistines. Because they're misinformed.

I have never said that.

 

[Phoenall]

That same statement has been used throughout the history of mankind dumbass.............

Are you retarded?

Listen dipshit, its been illegal since the end of WWII, you fuckin' dumbass!

Embrace the horror, you fuckin' *****!

They attacked and lost............too damned bad.............If they ever win every Israeli will be killed down to the children.............The Muslim extremist in the region have proved this throughout history. Ask the Armenians should you be nice to the Turks..................what's left of them.

Palestinian's didn't attack; you attacked Egypt.

Ask the Christians who are being slaughtered by ISIS and other groups preaching Convert or die........

Are you referring to the ISIS group led by an IDF colonel?

Gaza, and the West Bank have been lobbing rockets and missiles into Israel for a long time..........So Israel hit's them back.............It's just that Israel has the better weapons and kills what it aims at.

And the occupation had been going on 34 years before the first rocket went up.

They have no reason to apologize for fighting back.............and as long as they keep attacking Israel they can continue to complain about getting their ass handed to them.

They're not attacking Israel; they're responding to Israeli aggression.

End terrorism, stop lobbing rockets and missiles and stop dying.............

End the occupation and you won't get rockets.

Self Preservation needs no explanation............If they fire on you Israel KICK THEIR ASSES.

If Israel fires on Russia, it will get its Zionist ass kicked.

LINK

WRONG as you have been shown Egypt committed an act of war and Israel responded. Even your president said so at the time.

Try the hamas and fatah groups led by Palestinians that are ethnically cleansing Palestine of Christians ?

And the arab muslim violence and terrorism was going on 38 years before the occupation was in place. care to comment on that ?

And Israel aggression is in response to Palestinian violence

Quit the violence and terrorism that has been ongoing for 86 years and the occupation will end.

Has Israel shown any inclination to fire on Russia ?

 

[Phoenall]

Why doesn't the civilized world follow that logic? because the civilized world is not the Middle East. In here, the more "humanity" and "charity" you show, the more they see it as weakness and attack you. Welcome to our neighborhood.

Pfft. That's a convenient excuse for Israel to hold and expand on land it never had any intention of giving back from the beginning. Be honest and call it what it is - theft. Don't pretend there is anything more noble than that.

In order for it to be theft, there needs to be an actual entity from which this was stolen. Look at the west bank, for instant. To who it beloged? Palestine? rubbish, of course, as there was never an actual state called Palestine. Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48. So if I didn't take it from any actual owner, since there was no owner of this, how can you call me a thief?

Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48.​

Whose land did Jordan occupy? If it was nobodies, why couldn't they just say it was theirs? And if it was nobodies, why is it occupied Palestinian territory now?

Exactly, which means that it must be Israeli land and the Palestinian declaration is invalid

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why doesn't the civilized world follow that logic? because the civilized world is not the Middle East. In here, the more "humanity" and "charity" you show, the more they see it as weakness and attack you. Welcome to our neighborhood.

Pfft. That's a convenient excuse for Israel to hold and expand on land it never had any intention of giving back from the beginning. Be honest and call it what it is - theft. Don't pretend there is anything more noble than that.

In order for it to be theft, there needs to be an actual entity from which this was stolen. Look at the west bank, for instant. To who it beloged? Palestine? rubbish, of course, as there was never an actual state called Palestine. Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48. So if I didn't take it from any actual owner, since there was no owner of this, how can you call me a thief?

Jordan? nah ah, as Jordan itself occupied it illegaly, starting from 48.​

Whose land did Jordan occupy? If it was nobodies, why couldn't they just say it was theirs? And if it was nobodies, why is it occupied Palestinian territory now?

Exactly, which means that it must be Israeli land and the Palestinian declaration is invalid

So says Israel and nobody else.

 

[Phoenall]

Here's a creative propoganda response to Ayalon's video:

I asked for a list of 5 history books you've read; I'm still waiting.
You see, you are looking at this issue from a 2015 perspective and don't realize how many times Israel has had to capitulate and Arafat, etc... has turned down the offer.
Your history on this particular matter is ZERO and I'm NOT being sarcastic.

The Palestinians have never been offered their state.

Because it is no ones to offer, and this is were you fall down every time. They have to bite the bullet and go for broke and declare their state in full. Did Israel wait until they were given their nation NO. Did any of the mandated nations wait until they were given their state NO. So why should the Palestinians be any different ?

For the record the Palestinians were offered their state in 1947 and refused it. It was a one time offer never to be repeated and now they are whinging about their own stupidity.

 

[Phoenall]

Here's a creative propoganda response to Ayalon's video:

I asked for a list of 5 history books you've read; I'm still waiting.
You see, you are looking at this issue from a 2015 perspective and don't realize how many times Israel has had to capitulate and Arafat, etc... has turned down the offer.
Your history on this particular matter is ZERO and I'm NOT being sarcastic.

The Palestinians have never been offered their state.

Yes they have; it just hasn't been posted on KillTheFuckingJews.com.

They have been offered little pieces of it on occasion.

Delineate their state then under international treaty ?

 

[Phoenall]

BS................

The armies of Egypt and Syria were massed and were waiting for the attack. They were bragging about all the Shiny Russia tanks and planes they had............Sadat at the time when attacked bragged that the Israeli's would lose a little earlier when hit.................The Israeli's had no reason to give the tactical advantage to those poised to kill them.

They hit fast and hard and turned the shiny Russian Tanks and planes into scrap metal..........and rightfully so............Egypt lost the Sinai............and Israel took the Golan heights which is a strategic defensive position.................

In 73 they attacked Israel..........and even though they surprised Israel with anti aircraft batteries and shoulder fired anti tank weapons........the Israeli's fought through and outflanked them and drove into their rear...............at the end of the War........Egyptian forces remaining were encircled in Egypt itself and were meat on the table...........all the IDF needed was the order to fire............Towards Syria the IDF was ready to fire on Damascus itself.................

Again they lost................

We can go back to 48.......when all the arabs attacked them...........Israel's choice was fight or die. Backed up to the sea they had only that choice.................They won................

They have been living in perpetual War surrounded by people who have vowed to kill them all........They have no reason to play nice, or give a shit what those who want them dead have to say.

That's just a bullshit excuse.

You cannot change the fact that it was your tanks that rolled into Egypt to start the war.

You also cannot change the fact that since the end of WWII, it is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.

Now go back to school, junior, you were asleep in class the last time and flunked the lecture.

See you cant even get this right.

It was the air strikes on Egyptian bases that took out nearly all their planes followed by a ground offensive that had the Egyptian army running for cover.

LINK

Seems you missed a whole year .