Israel... friend or foe?

Who should America's next war be against?

  • Iran

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • Israel

    Votes: 5 55.6%

  • Total voters
    9
"You are welcomed to rejoin this debate".

I've not been removed from it.
And I'm fully aware of how to present Data etc.,in a Debate.

"There was no significant (worth mentioning) persecution of Jews from the Romans having put a stop to Jewish rebellions in 135 A.D."

That is Your Belief, which is not based by Historical Facts.
Feel free to present your "Historical Facts" regarding the "persecution of Jews" in the Roman Christian world.
"Jews" many times, were accepted in areas that they had relocated to, and many times, those that had accepted them, eventually turned upon them, & persecuted them.
You still don't understand the difference between suppressing the spread of Judaism in the Roman European Christian world and an actual persecution of Jews - which did not exist from 135A.D. to the 13th century.

However what did exist far earlier was suppression and persecution of Muslims starting off in the 8th century A.D. with the Reconquista.
Though I never heard of Muslims constantly highlighting the persecution of Muslims by Christians. Nor calling them to be antisemitic.
 
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Under Netanyahu, foe.

Without him, friend.


Israel... friend or foe?​

 
Under Netanyahu, foe.

Without him, friend.


Israel... friend or foe?​

That Bibi stands out is understood - but he breeds on, propagates and enacts the radical religious Zionist dogma.

Therefore those who adhere to the radical religious Zionist dogma - are the ones that provoke and incite violence, in and around Israel, which automatically results in a violent backlash by e.g. Palestinians and thus created further "radical" religious Muslim organizations.
 
Israel did :dunno:
1776198225048.webp
 
OMG
 
Feel free to present your "Historical Facts" regarding the "persecution of Jews" in the Roman Christian world.

You still don't understand the difference between suppressing the spread of Judaism in the Roman European Christian world and an actual persecution of Jews - which did not exist from 135A.D. to the 13th century.

However what did exist far earlier was suppression and persecution of Muslims starting off in the 8th century A.D. with the Reconquista.
Though I never heard of Muslims constantly highlighting the persecution of Muslims by Christians. Nor calling them to be antisemitic.
"The history of the Jewish people from AD 70 to the end of the 19th century saw a diaspora that spread Jewish communities far and wide, from the academies of Babylon to the bustling streets of medieval Spain and the cold expanses of Eastern Europe.
As they moved, they carried with them their traditions, beliefs, and practices, which evolved in response to their diverse environments.
Throughout the subsequent medieval period, Jews experienced both golden ages of acceptance and dark times of persecution"
"
Conversely, in Christian Europe, the situation was more complex. While there were periods of relative peace and coexistence, Jews often faced restrictions on their professions, were confined to specific quarters or ghettos, and were subjected to special taxes.

This was driven by the dominance of Christianity, which deeply influenced medieval thought, Jews were frequently accused of being responsible for the death of Jesus.

This theological claim, combined with persistent preaching about Jewish culpability, shaped negative perceptions among the general population.


Religious leaders often perpetuated this narrative, encouraging animosity that led to exclusionary practices and discrimination.

As a result, Jews were commonly ostracized from broader society, denied basic rights, and targeted during moments of social unrest.

As a result, Jews were often forced into occupations that Christians deemed undesirable, such as moneylending, due to restrictions on land ownership and guild membership.

Moneylending, though necessary for the functioning of medieval economies, was stigmatized due to its association with usury, which the Church condemned."

"As a consequence, they became scapegoats for economic hardships, particularly during periods of famine or inflation."


"
The Crusades, a series of religious wars initiated by the Christian West between the 11th and 13th centuries, primarily aimed to reclaim the Holy Land from Muslim control.

While the primary conflict was between Christian and Muslim forces, Jewish communities often found themselves caught in the crossfire, facing dire consequences as a result of these military campaigns.

From the outset of the First Crusade in 1096, Jewish communities in the Rhineland and other parts of Europe became targets of violence.


Many Crusaders, fueled by religious fervor and seeing the Jews as enemies of Christianity, attacked and massacred Jewish populations in cities like Worms, Mainz, and Speyer.

These assaults were not isolated incidents; they were part of a broader pattern of anti-Jewish violence that accompanied the Crusader movements.

In many cases, Jews were faced with the grim choice of conversion, death, or suicide, with some communities choosing collective suicide over forced conversion or slaughter."


"The portrayal of Jews as Christ-killers became more widespread, leading to increased marginalization and suspicion.

This sentiment was further exacerbated by theological developments within Christianity that emphasized the role of Jews in the crucifixion narrative."

The pogroms and anti-Semitic movements​

The late 19th and early 20th centuries witnessed a surge in anti-Semitic sentiments and violent actions against Jewish communities, particularly in Eastern Europe.

Pogroms, organized and often brutal attacks against Jews, became a harrowing reality for many Jewish families and communities during this period.

Originating from the Russian word meaning "to wreak havoc", pogroms were characterized by looting, physical violence, rape, and murder.

While some of these attacks were spontaneous outbursts fueled by local grievances, many were orchestrated or tacitly supported by state authorities.

The reasons behind these violent episodes were multifaceted, ranging from economic tensions and competition for resources to deeply entrenched religious prejudices and state-sponsored efforts to divert attention from political or social issues.

Russia, with its significant Jewish population, was a particular hotspot for such violence.

The assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881, for which some wrongly blamed Jews, led to a series of pogroms across the Russian Empire.

These attacks intensified feelings of vulnerability among Jewish communities, prompting many to consider emigration as a means of escape.

The waves of Jewish migration to places like the United States during this period can be directly linked to the desire to flee from the threat of pogroms and seek a better life elsewhere.'

This is One Article, & there are many, many,many Articles, & Historical Documents, that Clearly State that the "Jews", have undergone "Heavy Persecution", as well as "Times of Peace", that would fall back to "Heavy Persecution" again.

This Data, is easily verifiable, & available from "Jewish Sources", Secular Sources", and many, many Historical Sources.

How You think that You can Lecture me, over my stating that the "Jews" have been persecuted ever since the Destruction of the Third Temple, is Ludicrous, at best, and it makes You a certified Fool.



 
Here's a Chart of the "Persecutions" from 250 C.E., to 1938-45.

"Jewish Persecution | Timeline of Judaism | History of AntiSemitism


Lesser Known Highlights of Jewish International"​


Jewish persecution source:​


P.E. Grosser & E.G. Halperin, Anti-Semitism: Causes and Effects, New York: Philosophical Library, 1978

 
"Who should America's next war be against? "

No Nation, unless it is Absolutely Justified, & Declared.
 
blablablah........


"The Crusades, a series of religious wars initiated by the Christian West between the 11th and 13th centuries, primarily aimed to reclaim the Holy Land from Muslim control.
Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping and killing of non-Christians. By fanatic Christians.

Just as the Christians had already done against Muslims from the 8th century onward. But as I had stated before, unlike Jews, Muslims do not constantly whine about this, nor constantly point this out. !!!
While the primary conflict was between Christian and Muslim forces, Jewish communities often found themselves caught in the crossfire, facing dire consequences as a result of these military campaigns.

From the outset of the First Crusade in 1096, Jewish communities in the Rhineland and other parts of Europe became targets of violence.
Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping and killing of non-Christians. By fanatic Christians
Many Crusaders, fueled by religious fervor and seeing the Jews as enemies of Christianity, attacked and massacred Jewish populations in cities like Worms, Mainz, and Speyer.

These assaults were not isolated incidents; they were part of a broader pattern of anti-Jewish violence that accompanied the Crusader movements.

In many cases, Jews were faced with the grim choice of conversion, death, or suicide, with some communities choosing collective suicide over forced conversion or slaughter."
Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping, killing of non-Christians in conjunction with the crusades and the routes that fanatic crusaders took on their way to the Holy Land. e.g. the brutal sack of Constantinople or the siege of Acre by King the Richard I. Killing far more Christians and Muslims then Jews. And again only Jews keep whining and pointing this out, solely onto them, forever.

You got any idea as to how many millions of Germans were directly or indirectly massacred by the Swedes in the 30 years war? ever heard Germans whining about this and pointing it out forever??
"The portrayal of Jews as Christ-killers became more widespread, leading to increased marginalization and suspicion.
Yes - for sure, even harsh suppression of Jews and non-Christians.

So far you haven't come up with any proof towards a PERSECUTION of Jews. before the 13th century.

The pogroms and anti-Semitic movements​

The late 19th and early 20th centuries witnessed a surge in anti-Semitic sentiments and violent actions against Jewish communities, particularly in Eastern Europe.
Now - you finally got the right timeline for a systematic PERSECUTION of Jews right down to genocide against Jews and others. - Not just Jews.
However in your ignorance towards history - you missed out the systematic PERSECUTION of Jews from the 13th century A.D. to the 18th century A.D.

How You think that You can Lecture me, over my stating that the "Jews" have been persecuted ever since the Destruction of the Third Temple, is Ludicrous, at best, and it makes You a certified Fool.
Unlike you I don't just "think" aka claim - But proofed to you that there was NO PERSECUTION of Jews before the 13th century A.D.
 
Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping and killing of non-Christians. By fanatic Christians.

Just as the Christians had already done against Muslims from the 8th century onward. But as I had stated before, unlike Jews, Muslims do not constantly whine about this, nor constantly point this out. !!!

Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping and killing of non-Christians. By fanatic Christians

Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping, killing of non-Christians in conjunction with the crusades and the routes that fanatic crusaders took on their way to the Holy Land. e.g. the brutal sack of Constantinople or the siege of Acre by King the Richard I. Killing far more Christians and Muslims then Jews. And again only Jews keep whining and pointing this out, solely onto them, forever.

You got any idea as to how many millions of Germans were directly or indirectly massacred by the Swedes in the 30 years war? ever heard Germans whining about this and pointing it out forever??

Yes - for sure, even harsh suppression of Jews and non-Christians.

So far you haven't come up with any proof towards a PERSECUTION of Jews. before the 13th century.

Now - you finally got the right timeline for a systematic PERSECUTION of Jews right down to genocide against Jews and others. - Not just Jews.
However in your ignorance towards history - you missed out the systematic PERSECUTION of Jews from the 13th century A.D. to the 18th century A.D.


Unlike you I don't just "think" aka claim - But proofed to you that there was NO PERSECUTION of Jews before the 13th century A.D.
There's No Sense whatsoever in Debating a Certified FOOL that disputes Verifiable Data
 
There's No Sense whatsoever in Debating a Certified FOOL that disputes Verifiable Data
There is absolutely no point in debating with a prejudiced person who doesn't know shit about history like YOU- and cant even differentiate between suppression and persecution.

Suppression and persecution are both forms of injustice and the misuse of power, but they differ significantly in their intent, scope, and intensity. Suppression is generally the act of forcibly stopping, controlling, or eliminating specific actions, ideas, or dissent.
E.g. eliminating the tools or attempts that Jews used to spread Rabbinic Judaism.

Persecution is the systematic and persistent mistreatment of a specific group or individual, often based on race, religion, or political beliefs.
E.g. killing and driving them forcefully out of cities - whilst forcing/allocating them to live in designated Jew's only areas.
Which only happened from the 13th century A.D. onward.

You ever been to Regensburg, Augsburg, Worms, Cologne, Amsterdam, London etc. etc. ? and factually studied the expulsion of Jews? Unlike you I am into "real" history studies and do not draw my knowledge from copy/paste of some wiki or related pseudo-knowledge internet sites.

Now trot of you religious impaired troll

"truth-seeker" :rolleyes:
 
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There is absolutely no point in debating with a prejudiced person who doesn't know shit about history like YOU- and cant even differentiate between suppression and persecution.

Suppression and persecution are both forms of injustice and the misuse of power, but they differ significantly in their intent, scope, and intensity. Suppression is generally the act of forcibly stopping, controlling, or eliminating specific actions, ideas, or dissent.
E.g. eliminating the tools or attempts that Jews used to spread Rabbinic Judaism.

Persecution is the systematic and persistent mistreatment of a specific group or individual, often based on race, religion, or political beliefs.
E.g. killing and driving them forcefully out of cities - whilst forcing/allocating them to live in designated Jew's only areas.
Which only happened from the 13th century A.D. onward.

You ever been to Regensburg, Augsburg, Worms, Cologne, Amsterdam, London etc. etc. ? and factually studied the expulsion of Jews? Unlike you I am into "real" history studies and do not draw my knowledge from copy/paste of some wiki or related pseudo-knowledge internet sites.

Now trot of you religious impaired troll

"truth-seeker" :rolleyes:
You might want to start with a Good Menopausal Medication, but for being a Dedicated Fool,.... You'll need the help of The Almighty LORD GOD.
 
Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping and killing of non-Christians. By fanatic Christians.

Just as the Christians had already done against Muslims from the 8th century onward. But as I had stated before, unlike Jews, Muslims do not constantly whine about this, nor constantly point this out. !!!

Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping and killing of non-Christians. By fanatic Christians

Nothing to do with persecution of Jews. Just sporadic looting, raping, killing of non-Christians in conjunction with the crusades and the routes that fanatic crusaders took on their way to the Holy Land. e.g. the brutal sack of Constantinople or the siege of Acre by King the Richard I. Killing far more Christians and Muslims then Jews. And again only Jews keep whining and pointing this out, solely onto them, forever.

You got any idea as to how many millions of Germans were directly or indirectly massacred by the Swedes in the 30 years war? ever heard Germans whining about this and pointing it out forever??

Yes - for sure, even harsh suppression of Jews and non-Christians.

So far you haven't come up with any proof towards a PERSECUTION of Jews. before the 13th century.

Now - you finally got the right timeline for a systematic PERSECUTION of Jews right down to genocide against Jews and others. - Not just Jews.
However in your ignorance towards history - you missed out the systematic PERSECUTION of Jews from the 13th century A.D. to the 18th century A.D.


Unlike you I don't just "think" aka claim - But proofed to you that there was NO PERSECUTION of Jews before the 13th century A.D.
What You have proved is that You readily reject Knowledge, in order to uphold Your Illusions, & that You are somewhat "Illiterate".
 
"The history of the Jewish people from AD 70 to the end of the 19th century saw a diaspora that spread Jewish communities far and wide, from the academies of Babylon to the bustling streets of medieval Spain and the cold expanses of Eastern Europe.
As they moved, they carried with them their traditions, beliefs, and practices, which evolved in response to their diverse environments.
Throughout the subsequent medieval period, Jews experienced both golden ages of acceptance and dark times of persecution"
"
Conversely, in Christian Europe, the situation was more complex. While there were periods of relative peace and coexistence, Jews often faced restrictions on their professions, were confined to specific quarters or ghettos, and were subjected to special taxes.

This was driven by the dominance of Christianity, which deeply influenced medieval thought, Jews were frequently accused of being responsible for the death of Jesus.

This theological claim, combined with persistent preaching about Jewish culpability, shaped negative perceptions among the general population.

Religious leaders often perpetuated this narrative, encouraging animosity that led to exclusionary practices and discrimination.

As a result, Jews were commonly ostracized from broader society, denied basic rights, and targeted during moments of social unrest.

As a result, Jews were often forced into occupations that Christians deemed undesirable, such as moneylending, due to restrictions on land ownership and guild membership.

Moneylending, though necessary for the functioning of medieval economies, was stigmatized due to its association with usury, which the Church condemned."

"As a consequence, they became scapegoats for economic hardships, particularly during periods of famine or inflation."


"
The Crusades, a series of religious wars initiated by the Christian West between the 11th and 13th centuries, primarily aimed to reclaim the Holy Land from Muslim control.

While the primary conflict was between Christian and Muslim forces, Jewish communities often found themselves caught in the crossfire, facing dire consequences as a result of these military campaigns.

From the outset of the First Crusade in 1096, Jewish communities in the Rhineland and other parts of Europe became targets of violence.


Many Crusaders, fueled by religious fervor and seeing the Jews as enemies of Christianity, attacked and massacred Jewish populations in cities like Worms, Mainz, and Speyer.

These assaults were not isolated incidents; they were part of a broader pattern of anti-Jewish violence that accompanied the Crusader movements.

In many cases, Jews were faced with the grim choice of conversion, death, or suicide, with some communities choosing collective suicide over forced conversion or slaughter."


"The portrayal of Jews as Christ-killers became more widespread, leading to increased marginalization and suspicion.

This sentiment was further exacerbated by theological developments within Christianity that emphasized the role of Jews in the crucifixion narrative."

The pogroms and anti-Semitic movements​

The late 19th and early 20th centuries witnessed a surge in anti-Semitic sentiments and violent actions against Jewish communities, particularly in Eastern Europe.

Pogroms, organized and often brutal attacks against Jews, became a harrowing reality for many Jewish families and communities during this period.

Originating from the Russian word meaning "to wreak havoc", pogroms were characterized by looting, physical violence, rape, and murder.


While some of these attacks were spontaneous outbursts fueled by local grievances, many were orchestrated or tacitly supported by state authorities.

The reasons behind these violent episodes were multifaceted, ranging from economic tensions and competition for resources to deeply entrenched religious prejudices and state-sponsored efforts to divert attention from political or social issues.

Russia, with its significant Jewish population, was a particular hotspot for such violence.

The assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881, for which some wrongly blamed Jews, led to a series of pogroms across the Russian Empire.

These attacks intensified feelings of vulnerability among Jewish communities, prompting many to consider emigration as a means of escape.

The waves of Jewish migration to places like the United States during this period can be directly linked to the desire to flee from the threat of pogroms and seek a better life elsewhere.'

This is One Article, & there are many, many,many Articles, & Historical Documents, that Clearly State that the "Jews", have undergone "Heavy Persecution", as well as "Times of Peace", that would fall back to "Heavy Persecution" again.

This Data, is easily verifiable, & available from "Jewish Sources", Secular Sources", and many, many Historical Sources.

How You think that You can Lecture me, over my stating that the "Jews" have been persecuted ever since the Destruction of the Third Temple, is Ludicrous, at best, and it makes You a certified Fool.



Thanks, although there is no Third Temple. Yet.
 
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