Southern Unionists and the American Civil War

[Tom Paine 1949]

No government is perpetual and this one certainly needs termination.

Before you go around talking about “terminating” a constitutional republican government, it is a good idea to think about what the alternative is, who your leading “comrades” are. If it is chaos, if they are slaveholding oligarchs ... better to hold your tongue and think again.

It’s time has come and gone. Let’s terminate it entirely.

“It’s time has come and gone. Let’s terminate it entirely.”

The question remains: “What shall replace it?“
Lot’s of other questions you are not considering...

 

[gipper]

No government is perpetual and this one certainly needs termination.

Before you go around talking about “terminating” a constitutional republican government, it is a good idea to think about what the alternative is, who your leading “comrades” are. If it is chaos, if they are slaveholding oligarchs ... better to hold your tongue and think again.

It’s time has come and gone. Let’s terminate it entirely.

“It’s time has come and gone. Let’s terminate it entirely.”

The question remains: “What shall replace it?“
Lot’s of other questions you are not considering...

So you think keeping something evil is best because we don’t know what the future holds. Illogical.

 

[Picaro]

That is always such a laughable comment that one wonders what the person making it could possibly be thinking.
Federal troops are not invading America when they maneuver within its territory. That would be an example of oxymoron.

If they were just on maneuvers, how did 850,000 Americans end up dead and half the nation destroyed?

Because slavery had not been dealt with Constitutionally and illegal attempts to destroy the nation over this issue required action.

Actually this is false; the South had already won all the fights over slavery in the Supreme Court. The war wasn't over slavery, it was over the GOP's adoption of the old Whig 'American System' of giant government projects, huge giveaways to railroads that were so successful and lucrative for the Michigan railroads and made the founders of the Illinois Central immensely wealthy almost overnight and without them having to pay in less than 1/6th of their stock price, and of course the all important Homestead Acts' and Morrill Tariffs. Anybody who doubts that only needs to look at every leading newspaper in the country's reporting on this and of course the record of the Congress itself and what bills it considered of biggest importance to pass by 1863. Lincoln himself said the war wasn't over slavery, but hey, pay no mind to facts, just make up your own, then pat yourself on the back for some faux moral stance you've never done a thing about or fought for. We also know what Lincoln's plans were for those 'freed slaves', those he had a use for on government plantations, for $3 a month and unable to leave without written permission from th enew owners, GOP cronies, while letting some 600,000 to 1,000,000 die of diseases and starvation in 'Contrabands Camps' rather than let them flee North.

 

[Picaro]

The Union all agreed to at the time was perpetual. All language evolves. All the amendments could be further amended. This can be done Constitutionally, as could have been the perpetual part, the slave part, the arms part, the religion and speech parts. Taking it into your own hands to unilaterally decide it has changed may invite vigorous disagreement. That is what happened to those who sought to secede.

Rubbish. We have Madison's quashing of a clause granting the Federal govt. the right to use force against states who wanted to secede from being entered into the Constitution at the 1787 convention, and we have several decades of states, ironically mostly New England states at that, using secession as a bargaining chip over legislation. They even threatened to do so during a war with England, yet Madison nor anybody else ever made any such claim that secession was illegal. Parts of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, some regions of New England, and NEw York City itself almost followed the South into secession as well, at least until they found out the southern states had sent delegates to England and France to arrange for shipping and direct trade from southern ports to Europe, thus costing the Atlantic and New England states their financial and shipping monopolies and we have Lincon crying over what the South's 10% tariffs would do to his own protectionist tariffs and northern trade.

All the rubbish over 'fighting against slavery' is utter nonsense, and just a smokescreen invented as a cover for old fashioned greed and plundering. The entire goal was looting the South to pay for massive corporate welfare projects and protective tariffs for northern businessmen, and Lincoln the railroad lawyer was chosen to do that. They had to change the entire tax system of the U.S. to do so, at the expense of one region to pay for programs that would only benefit the Northern tier of states.