I agree with Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley on reasons for the Civil War

[Ms. Turquoise]

Next time someone should ask Nikki Haley: "Why was the KKK organized?".

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Guess what?
After we became independent, we were responsible for our own slavery

Which is why I mention the Confederation and the USA. Forming them both required compromises. Would you have preferred principles dictate they all stayed separate sovereign states, or grouped in smaller, multiple confederations on the Eastern Seaboard/eastern part of North America?

You haven't answered what you would have had them do.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Next time someone should ask Nikki Haley: "Why was the KKK organized?".

and ask -- is she related to Jim Crow?

 

[Ms. Turquoise]

and ask -- is she related to Jim Crow?

Thank you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Thank you.

Her answers could be hilarious.

 

[rightwinger]

Which is why I mention the Confederation and the USA. Forming them both required compromises. Would you have preferred principles dictate they all stayed separate sovereign states, or grouped in smaller, multiple confederations on the Eastern Seaboard/eastern part of North America?

You haven't answered what you would have had them do.

If I had a Way Back machine, what would I have done?

I would have preferred if we settled the issue of slavery in the 1780s
It would have saved us from a Civil War and 100 years of Jim Crow

Did we need the Southern States to form a union?
What if we let them go on their own and made abandoning slavery a condition of joining?
In the 1780s, the South did not NEED slavery
By the early 1800 ‘s they did

 

[Zincwarrior]

Slavery was wrong and would have been abolished eventually in any case

The Civil War freed the slaves sooner but left a bitter legacy that still plagues the country

Maybe we would be better off if the abolitionists had used more patience and tact

Again, you seceded before any of that and attacked US troops. You FAFO'd.

If they had wiped out the Southerners like they did the Seminoles and Navaho it would not be an issue.

 

[Mac-7]

Well if they had wiped out the Southerners like they did the Seminoles and Navaho it would not be an issue.

I think the radical republican abolitionists would have done that if they could

As would bitter libs on this forum

But be careful what you wish for

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If I had a Way Back machine, what would I have done?

I would have preferred if we settled the issue of slavery in the 1780s
It would have saved us from a Civil War and 100 years of Jim Crow

Did we need the Southern States to form a union?
What if we let them go on their own and made abandoning slavery a condition of joining?
In the 1780s, the South did not NEED slavery
By the early 1800 ‘s they did

The Confederation/Union would never have succeeded if it were divided. The rebels of the 1700s, went to war turning many neighbors, friends, and families against each other. The one thing they all desired was for the cause to not have become a failed one. The issue of slavery was never going to be peacefully resolved in the 1700s. You claim the southern states did not need slavery. They begged to differ in the 1700s, and they later went to war over it. Their claims were not about 'oh, we only need it today' their claims were about what a sovereign state could do -- own slaves.

The ugly truths are that the southern Confederacy was built on slavery. The colonies were connected through commerce and more. Together, they waged a successful rebellion (I can argue an unnecessary one). They were never going to go separate ways when the rebellion was over. They were a fragile nation in the beginning -- very fragile.

Condemning all of the founders as you do (I make distinctions here framers vs founding generation), for accepting slavery is intellectually lazy. It ignore realities of the time. The rebels who formed the confederacy, and later the framers who made the arguments for forming the USA, were all wary and leery of attempts to keep them all apart -- divide and conquer.

I dislike many of the so-called Founders, and especially some of the Framers, but I do not condemn them all for the choices they were left with or the decisions they made in forming a nation. Their personal behaviors, ethics, morals are another matter.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I think the radical republican abolitionists would have done that if they could

As would bitter libs on this forum

But be careful what you wish for

Why? War is over. If only the crackers could figure that out. But they are dying off.

 

[Mac-7]

Why? War is over. If only the crackers could figure that out. But they are dying off.

“crackers” is a racist slur

Two can play that game

As for who is causing the trouble it is blacks who are attacking Confederates

 

[Zincwarrior]

As for who is causing the trouble it is blacks who are attacking Confederates

Good. Fuck those crackers up.

 

[Mac-7]

Good. Fuck those crackers up.

If I called you a ****** you’d freak out

 

[AZrailwhale]

Stop misrepresenting things.

How about showing me where I’m wrong then.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The problem with discussing the Civil War is that most people only really have a Jr High History book chapter understanding (written by the winners) of what it was all about. That and what Hollywood and the Liberal media have told them. And of course the Negro victim hate to go along with the pathetic White Guilt pussies being confused about everything.

They don't know that Ft Sumter was caused by Lincoln breaking the treaty that Buchanan established. They don't know that the issue of slavery was really about power expansion in the West and gaining more power in Congress. They don't know that the brave Confederate soldiers were fighting to defend their homeland from an invasion by filthy shithead Union thugs.

The bad guys won that war and the good guys lost. We are paying the price for it nowadays with this bloated oppressive debt ridden welfare state banana republic we live in now that can't even protect its own border.

There couldn’t have been a treaty. Treaties are only ,pomade between independent states. The USA never recognized either South Carolina nor the Confederacy as independent states. Plus treaties have to be ratified by the Senate.

 

[Batcat]

The big mistake is that we let them back into the union way too quickly. Next time we need to wait a few generations before we allow the scum of Dixie back into the nation.

What makes you think Dixie would have rejoined the Union after a few generations? By that time Dixie would have learned to survive on its own. After all, Dixie was doing well during the Civil War until Gettysburg,

I doubt if General Robert E. Lee ever read Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War” but if he followed the ancient advise contained in it the Civil War might have had a different outcome.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-art-of-war-and-the-american-civil-war-sun-tzu-and-gettysburg.182489/

snip


Sun Tzu: When the enemy occupies high ground, do not confront him. If he attacks downhill do not oppose him. Longstreet is said to have grasped the situation from Sun Tzu's perspective. He wants to abandon the idea of attacking the Union high ground. He wants to go around Cemetery Ridge and then east right towards Washington D.C. The Union army would need to come off Cemetery Ridge and attack the Confederates where they were which would likely have secured the Confederates a victory. Lee says "no - the enemy is there and I am going to attack him there." Longstreet is stunned. The commentator said Sun Tzu would have told his men to assess the situation, adjust their forces and find another way to attack the enemy. Second day at Gettysburg is hell on earth and sees some of the bloodiest hand combat of the war.

Sun Tzu: There are some armies that should not be fought, some ground that should not be contended. Commentator suggests one thing you never want to do in war is throw good money after bad. Use an attack to exploit a victory, never use an attack to rescue a defeat. Longstreet understands this. The Confederates are outnumbered, do not have the high ground, and have suffered terrible casualties in the last two days of fighting with no real chance of pushing the Union off the high ground. He makes his suggestion again to move around Cemetery Hill. Lee feels his men have sacrificed too much to turn back and gives the order to attack. George Pickett leads the charge after asking Longstreet twice if he should he go, to which Longstreet never replies knowing the attack is suicidal. Sun Tzu believed in using the intellect rather than force and never using force if you could do otherwise.

 

[candycorn]

What makes you think Dixie would have rejoined the Union after a few generations? By that time Dixie would have learned to survive on its own. After all, Dixie was doing well during the Civil War until Gettysburg,

I doubt if General Robert E. Lee ever read Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War” but if he followed the ancient advise contained in it the Civil War might have had a different outcome.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-art-of-war-and-the-american-civil-war-sun-tzu-and-gettysburg.182489/

snip


Sun Tzu: When the enemy occupies high ground, do not confront him. If he attacks downhill do not oppose him. Longstreet is said to have grasped the situation from Sun Tzu's perspective. He wants to abandon the idea of attacking the Union high ground. He wants to go around Cemetery Ridge and then east right towards Washington D.C. The Union army would need to come off Cemetery Ridge and attack the Confederates where they were which would likely have secured the Confederates a victory. Lee says "no - the enemy is there and I am going to attack him there." Longstreet is stunned. The commentator said Sun Tzu would have told his men to assess the situation, adjust their forces and find another way to attack the enemy. Second day at Gettysburg is hell on earth and sees some of the bloodiest hand combat of the war.

Sun Tzu: There are some armies that should not be fought, some ground that should not be contended. Commentator suggests one thing you never want to do in war is throw good money after bad. Use an attack to exploit a victory, never use an attack to rescue a defeat. Longstreet understands this. The Confederates are outnumbered, do not have the high ground, and have suffered terrible casualties in the last two days of fighting with no real chance of pushing the Union off the high ground. He makes his suggestion again to move around Cemetery Hill. Lee feels his men have sacrificed too much to turn back and gives the order to attack. George Pickett leads the charge after asking Longstreet twice if he should he go, to which Longstreet never replies knowing the attack is suicidal. Sun Tzu believed in using the intellect rather than force and never using force if you could do otherwise.

Dixie is a welfare state.

One report has a quarter of the residents of one county (in Ole Miss) on Social Security Disability alone. Basically turn the place into a giant federal reserve and stop the foolishness coming out of the former confederacy. Good riddance.

 

[Flash]

There couldn’t have been a treaty. Treaties are only ,pomade between independent states. The USA never recognized either South Carolina nor the Confederacy as independent states. Plus treaties have to be ratified by the Senate.

Since the shitheads in the filthy ass Union government did not recognize the secession it was not formalized in any way. It couldn't be. However, it was a negotiated informal treaty by President Buchanan requiring restraint from both parties and it held until that piece of shit Lincoln broke it and that is a fact.

They didn't cover that in your Jr High history book, written by the winners, did they?

 

[MarathonMike]

The big mistake is that we let them back into the union way too quickly. Next time we need to wait a few generations before we allow the scum of Dixie back into the nation.

Southern people are nicer than you.

 

[Batcat]

Dixie is a welfare state.

One report has a quarter of the residents of one county (in Ole Miss) on Social Security Disability alone. Basically turn the place into a giant federal reserve and stop the foolishness coming out of the former confederacy. Good riddance.

That doesn't mean that as a separate nation from the North, the South might not have been able to develop enough industry to be successful.

I moved to Florida in the 1960s and the county I moved from was highly industrial at the time. Today it is part of the Yankee Rust Belt.

Florida and Texas are both successful today and both operate without a state income tax. In fact people from the big blue cities such as New York are moving to Florida and Texas today. Florida even has a nice budget surplus. Florida and Texas are home to some high tech industries today such as the aerospace industry.

When I was in the service in the 1960s, I lived in Mississippi. It was a backward state then and may still be.

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