Shock. Disbelief. Denial.

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Why did I put this in Politics???
Read the ENTIRE story to find out.

The Rev. Ted Haggard resigned Thursday as president of the National
Association of Evangelicals after a male escort said Haggard paid him for sex
over a three-year period.

Haggard, senior pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado
Springs, also put himself on administrative leave from New Life while a panel
of outside church leaders investigates the accusations.
http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326038

 

[Avatar4321]

I saw the AP stories on this last night. Going on and on about how one of the most influencial evangelicals in America was resigning. For being one of the most influencial evangelicals, ive never heard of him. Im willing to bet most people havent. and dont think i could care even less about it.

 

[dmp]

I saw the AP stories on this last night. Going on and on about how one of the most influencial evangelicals in America was resigning. For being one of the most influencial evangelicals, ive never heard of him. Im willing to bet most people havent. and dont think i could care even less about it.

That was my exact thought. Most influencial? WAT Da FOCK?

I wonder how long before the ACLU or other pro-homo groups rally to his defense? Oh, they're not going to? Weird. I thought those groups would LOVE a homosexual who claimed christianity.

 

[Avatar4321]

btw, it does look like this would be a purely political manuever, but i dont think they thought this through. if people think they are slandering their minister for political purposes its going to motivate the base thats in favor of that amendment.

In addition, I cant help but ask a question. if the allegations are true and this minister is gay, why is he so actively opposing homosexual marriage?

 

[dmp]

btw, it does look like this would be a purely political manuever, but i dont think they thought this through. if people think they are slandering their minister for political purposes its going to motivate the base thats in favor of that amendment.

In addition, I cant help but ask a question. if the allegations are true and this minister is gay, why is he so actively opposing homosexual marriage?

Speculation:

1st off - he was trying to deny/hide his homosexuality
2ndly, not every homosexual supports gay marriage.


Seems like a case of a guy who has homosexual desires, who may not have been able to control said desires, and didn't know where to turn.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I don't either but it's hard to ignore in CO.
no1tovote4 or any other Colorado resident can tell
you that the mud slings fast and furious during election season.
They air some pretty harsh commercials, it's on the radio, billboards.

I just thought it might be interesting to talk about.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I see this was moved to Religion/Ethics.
My bad, I thought it would be interesting to put in Politics.

 

[mattskramer]

Yawn. Another hypocrite. Why am I not surprised? It is just another reason why I just can’t trust Christianity. If these self-righteous preachers really truly believe in peace, love, and joy in an eternal afterlife in heaven, the why the hell do they even come close to engaging in such behavior? It is simply not real. This reminds me of Jimmy Swaggart (caught twice fraternizing with a prostitute), Jim Baker (paying off another woman to keep silent about an affair while over-booking is cozy Amusement park and air-conditioned dog house. I know that even “saved” people sin but come on. These popular preachers who supposedly believe the Bible and lead people should accept a high standard for themselves. I’m not a Christian but I don’t commit near the atrocities and cruel things that these people do – the lies, adultery, thievery, etc.

 

[Kagom]

I saw this story Thursday night before I went to bed. I didn't post anything because I didn't care enough about this person I've never heard of. But Neil Patrick Harris is gay.

 

[Gunny]

Yawn. Another hypocrite. Why am I not surprised? It is just another reason why I just can’t trust Christianity. If these self-righteous preachers really truly believe in peace, love, and joy in an eternal afterlife in heaven, the why the hell do they even come close to engaging in such behavior? It is simply not real. This reminds me of Jimmy Swaggart (caught twice fraternizing with a prostitute), Jim Baker (paying off another woman to keep silent about an affair while over-booking is cozy Amusement park and air-conditioned dog house. I know that even “saved” people sin but come on. These popular preachers who supposedly believe the Bible and lead people should accept a high standard for themselves. I’m not a Christian but I don’t commit near the atrocities and cruel things that these people do – the lies, adultery, thievery, etc.

***yawn*** Just one more nimrod who wants to let the actions of some fringe-element freak speak for a whole religion.

Let me repeat for your edification what has already been said: WHO? Never heard of the guy.

 

[dilloduck]

***yawn*** Just one more nimrod who wants to let the actions of some fringe-element freak speak for a whole religion.

Let me repeat for your edification what has already been said: WHO? Never heard of the guy.

I think it's one of those radical Christians who is trying take away everyones personal freedom by doing stuff like putting the 10 commandments in courtrooms and taking a stand against homosexual marriage. The left has to constantly be afraid of these guys because the think that this wacko is the core of the Republican base. He's sorta like the Ted Kennedy of the liberals except they don't care if one of thier own makes an ass of himself.

 

[Gem]

Yawn. Another hypocrite. Why am I not surprised? It is just another reason why I just can’t trust Christianity. If these self-righteous preachers really truly believe in peace, love, and joy in an eternal afterlife in heaven, the why the hell do they even come close to engaging in such behavior? It is simply not real. This reminds me of Jimmy Swaggart (caught twice fraternizing with a prostitute), Jim Baker (paying off another woman to keep silent about an affair while over-booking is cozy Amusement park and air-conditioned dog house. I know that even “saved” people sin but come on. These popular preachers who supposedly believe the Bible and lead people should accept a high standard for themselves. I’m not a Christian but I don’t commit near the atrocities and cruel things that these people do – the lies, adultery, thievery, etc.

So a handful of people who state they are Christian turn out to be assholes and you choose to state that you can't trust Christianity because of that?

Sorry...but if that is true, then you are a moron.

Do you also stay away from black people, because some of them commit murder even though most of them say it is bad?

How about white people? Cause you know, most people I know say that murder and rape are wrong...but wouldn't you know it...I've heard that at least 10 white people have done just that. Fucking hypocritical white bastards.

How 'bout those Muslims huh? The audacity of millions of them claiming to be peaceful when a few thousand of them are fanatics obsessed with killing as many non-believers as possible.

And jeez...those damn feminists who claim to be all for equality...but just the other day my feminist friend scolded her husband for not opening a door for her at a restaurant....don't worry Matt, I won't be talking to that hypocritical bitch again...I'm following your example.

You must lead a very lonely life...just you and your computer...sitting there judging millions of people based upon the actions of a few assholes.

Oh wait...nevermind...you just hold Christians to that standard, while all other people "shouldn't be stereotyped".


Hypocrite.

 

[MissileMan]

Seems like a case of a guy who has homosexual desires, who may not have been able to control said desires, and didn't know where to turn.

You must have written this badly. I seriously doubt, based on what I've read of your posts, that you really mean that.

 

[Kagom]

You must have written this badly. I seriously doubt, based on what I've read of your posts, that you really mean that.

No, trust me, he meant that.

 

[mattskramer]

***yawn*** Just one more nimrod who wants to let the actions of some fringe-element freak speak for a whole religion.

No. He is just one example of many. Open your eyes.
Check out http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/sheep.html

Here is another source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_televangelist_scandals

Let me repeat for your edification what has already been said: WHO? Never heard of the guy.

So you never heard of him. That does not mean that he is not popular. Time Magazine named him one of the country’s 25 most influential evangelicals…

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326038

See Time’s article at http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050207/photoessay/11.html

 

[mattskramer]

So a handful of people who state they are Christian turn out to be assholes and you choose to state that you can't trust Christianity because of that?

First of all, there are many greedy and unethical, if not criminal, preachers. Secondly scandals are just one of the many reasons why I can’t trust Christianity.

Sorry...but if that is true, then you are a moron.

Wow. That was very Christ-like of you.

Do you also stay away from black people, because some of them commit murder even though most of them say it is bad?

I use a reasonable amount of caution with anyone that I meet. At least they are not preachers (both trying to sell a phony bill of goods).

How about white people? Cause you know, most people I know say that murder and rape are wrong...but wouldn't you know it...I've heard that at least 10 white people have done just that. Fucking hypocritical white bastards.

Again, they are not trying to sell snake oil or commit cruel schemes against me while selling false hope. At the same time, I’m slow to warm up to people that come across as overly friendly.

How 'bout those Muslims huh? The audacity of millions of them claiming to be peaceful when a few thousand of them are fanatics obsessed with killing as many non-believers as possible.

Actually, the Muslims I met were nicer to me than many Christians that I met.

And jeez...those damn feminists who claim to be all for equality...but just the other day my feminist friend scolded her husband for not opening a door for her at a restaurant....don't worry Matt, I won't be talking to that hypocritical bitch again...I'm following your example.

You must lead a very lonely life...just you and your computer...sitting there judging millions of people based upon the actions of a few assholes.

When it comes to fear and faith about the afterlife, I learned to stand my guard and be very leery. As for the other examples you give, they are not grandstanding and preaching joy while cheating you out of money and watching you turn into a fool.

Oh wait...nevermind...you just hold Christians to that standard, while all other people "shouldn't be stereotyped".


Hypocrite.

If other people put themselves up on a pedestal on center stage and shout about Heaven and eternal bliss and caution you about good behavior, I’d apply the same standard to them. I’d watch them carefully and hope that they do as they say. “All other people” don’t behave in that fashion. They don’t put themselves up as models and call for reform with a turn toward God while committing the cruelest of crimes.

Consider Larry Flynt. He does not preach about the way to reach an eternal life of happiness, so if he “sins” nobody really cares. I’m not talking about a blue-collar criminal who will steal your money or a politician who will say one thing to get elected but do something else. They, for the most part, are not that concerned about the afterlife. They can disappoint you – you can lose your money and learn to not vote for that person again.

These are petty matters in comparison to having your trust and faith about eternal life crushed by those who preach heaven but commit crimes as if they don’t really believe in what they say. Based on what they do, what they say simply can’t be true. Otherwise, why in hell would anyone do such things? I am talking about people that we trust who supposedly have information about God and how you should live and what you should believe to have eternal peace. Based on that, I don’t consider myself as applying a double standard or being a hypocrite.

 

[Gunny]

No. He is just one example of many. Open your eyes.
Check out http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/sheep.html

Here is another source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_televangelist_scandals

You apparently are the one who needs his eyes opened. I didn't say Christian extremists don't exist. They just don't have the influence over mainstream Christians that those of your ilk would like everyone to believe.


So you never heard of him. That does not mean that he is not popular. Time Magazine named him one of the country’s 25 most influential evangelicals…

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326038

See Time’s article at http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050207/photoessay/11.html

Big deal. STILL never heard of him. But then, unlike you SPs try to brainwash everyone into believing, I'm a Christian and I don't pay attention to Christian extremists. When I do, more often than not it's to denounce not defend their way of thinking and/or actions.

You let the actions of the extreme few speak for the majority who are not extrmists; yet, you won't hesitate to turn around and say "all Islam isn't bad, just the extremists are."

So just which standard should be applied?

 

[Gunny]

First of all, there are many greedy and unethical, if not criminal, preachers. Secondly scandals are just one of the many reasons why I can’t trust Christianity.



Wow. That was very Christ-like of you.




I use a reasonable amount of caution with anyone that I meet. At least they are not preachers (both trying to sell a phony bill of goods).



Again, they are not trying to sell snake oil or commit cruel schemes against me while selling false hope. At the same time, I’m slow to warm up to people that come across as overly friendly.



Actually, the Muslims I met were nicer to me than many Christians that I met.



When it comes to fear and faith about the afterlife, I learned to stand my guard and be very leery. As for the other examples you give, they are not grandstanding and preaching joy while cheating you out of money and watching you turn into a fool.



If other people put themselves up on a pedestal on center stage and shout about Heaven and eternal bliss and caution you about good behavior, I’d apply the same standard to them. I’d watch them carefully and hope that they do as they say. “All other people” don’t behave in that fashion. They don’t put themselves up as models and call for reform with a turn toward God while committing the cruelest of crimes.

Consider Larry Flynt. He does not preach about the way to reach an eternal life of happiness, so if he “sins” nobody really cares. I’m not talking about a blue-collar criminal who will steal your money or a politician who will say one thing to get elected but do something else. They, for the most part, are not that concerned about the afterlife. They can disappoint you – you can lose your money and learn to not vote for that person again.

These are petty matters in comparison to having your trust and faith about eternal life crushed by those who preach heaven but commit crimes as if they don’t really believe in what they say. Based on what they do, what they say simply can’t be true. Otherwise, why in hell would anyone do such things? I am talking about people that we trust who supposedly have information about God and how you should live and what you should believe to have eternal peace. Based on that, I don’t consider myself as applying a double standard or being a hypocrite.

Damn, matt, she splattered you all over the wall, and THIS is the best you can do?

 

[Gem]

Matt,

I never claimed to be "Christ-like." I call a spade a spade...you generalize and stereotype millions of people based upon the actions of a few. Thats moronic. If you follow his teachings, Christ would probably be far more upset with you judging millions of people based upon the actions of a few that have nothing to do with them than he would have been with me for calling you on it. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. Since you don't believe in the religion to begin with and have no clue as to my religious leanings...it was a silly and useless retort at best. Your statements on this topic have been ridiculous...and whats more I think you know it.

If other people put themselves up on a pedestal on center stage and shout about Heaven and eternal bliss and caution you about good behavior, I’d apply the same standard to them. I’d watch them carefully and hope that they do as they say.

No one here has said anything different, least of all me. These men who proclaim to be leaders of their faiths while committing crimes, lying, cheating and behaving in manners utterly opposite to what they preach are hypocritical assholes. They are claiming to support and believe one thing while living the exact opposite. Then again...you probably claim to be an open-minded individual who doesn't stereotype...yet here you are...doing the exact opposite...what does that make you?

“All other people” don’t behave in that fashion. They don’t put themselves up as models and call for reform with a turn toward God while committing the cruelest of crimes.

No, youre right. But "all other Christians" do not put themselves up as models while committing crimes...millions of Christians behave in very "Christ-like" lives...and your attitude towards them is condescending and closed-minded.

These are petty matters in comparison to having your trust and faith about eternal life crushed by those who preach heaven but commit crimes as if they don’t really believe in what they say.

Yes, you're right. Its just too bad that you are backpeddling and changing your original premise to make this point. Remember, you are the one who has made the jump from a few corrupt men to an entire religion.

You and I are in complete agreement that these men are evil and they have crushed the beliefs of innocent people. Where we differ is that I feel sorry for these innocent people...you paint them with the same brush as the lying preacher when you state that this is why you can't believe in Christianity.

Based on that, I don’t consider myself as applying a double standard or being a hypocrite.

You have the right to consider yourself however you would like to...just be aware that your own words show you in a different light.

 

[mattskramer]

Gem:

Perhaps you have a point. I suppose that in is not logical to discount a message because of the evils of many messengers. Still, doctors tell me that smoking is bad for me. I don’t see any doctors that smoke. Preachers say that it is wrong to lie and cheat and steal. I learn about many preachers lie cheat and steal. I don’t have anything against quiet and peaceful Christians. From what I hear about the Amish, I think that I’d consider them to be ideal religious people. Let’s just say that I have my suspicions when I hear popular preachers get in my face and try to tell me how to live. I have a bitter skepticism about it. It would be a little bit easier for me to believe something so great and wonderful if all preachers would follow their supposed beliefs. That is all that I really have to comment about it.