"satan" in Judaism

[JakeStarkey]

Jake you have to understand it s not a matter of morality. That's in the Word and so many of us are struggling with this because we all know people who are gay and they are wonderful and sweet and the kindest people you can meet.

My favorite line for one couple I know FABULOUS

That's in a portion of The Word, and it is not in Jesus' name, td.

The Word is not literal is my point.

The Word is a Guide, all of that yet nothing more as well as everything.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What? Please stop embarrassing yourself. You just said that Jews don't believe in the Book of Job.

Job 1 - Prologue - In the land of Uz there - Bible Gateway



You're not a Jew at all.

You're only way out is the "yetzer hara" explanation. Yet, Rabbinic fears of the personification of Satan in the Book of Job shouldn't be fears at all. The Book of Job makes it clear that Satan shares no authority with God, nor controls any dominion outside of God's. Satan MUST ask God for permission in order to Act against his will. Thus, Satan is not a deity or any sort, and is entirely inferior to God.

No Rabbi or any other Jewish authority could convince me that Satan was NOT personified in this passage. The Torah is the highest authority, not a Rabbi.

"Satan" means "adversary" in Hebrew. It doesn't mean "Devil". It's not a proper name.

The "satan" of the Book of Job has no relation to the "Satan" that you are so afraid Katy Perry worships.

So who is Satan in your world? Straight up and honest question. I've lived in a house filled with demons and ran from it. I know evil.

So how do you describe it. And do you think of it as biblically evil? Straight out question.

Literally, "satan" in my world is whoever is challenging me at any given time.

If you mean "evil", well that lives in all of us. It's a part of being a human. We are all capable of both good and evil, and our choices define where we stand. "Biblical" evil fits within that category.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What? Please stop embarrassing yourself. You just said that Jews don't believe in the Book of Job.

Job 1 - Prologue - In the land of Uz there - Bible Gateway



You're not a Jew at all.

You're only way out is the "yetzer hara" explanation. Yet, Rabbinic fears of the personification of Satan in the Book of Job shouldn't be fears at all. The Book of Job makes it clear that Satan shares no authority with God, nor controls any dominion outside of God's. Satan MUST ask God for permission in order to Act against his will. Thus, Satan is not a deity or any sort, and is entirely inferior to God.

No Rabbi or any other Jewish authority could convince me that Satan was NOT personified in this passage. The Torah is the highest authority, not a Rabbi.

"Satan" means "adversary" in Hebrew. It doesn't mean "Devil". It's not a proper name.

The "satan" of the Book of Job has no relation to the "Satan" that you are so afraid Katy Perry worships.

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

 

[The Rabbi]

"Satan" means "adversary" in Hebrew. It doesn't mean "Devil". It's not a proper name.

The "satan" of the Book of Job has no relation to the "Satan" that you are so afraid Katy Perry worships.

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

I'm not sure you can really make that statement.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

I'm not sure you can really make that statement.

The word appears numerous times in the Torah to describe people. It means "challenger", "adversary", "accuser" or even "interlocutor".

Only once does "satan" refer to a specific being - and even there, it's clear that "satan" is an angel that God has assigned the duty of testing faith to, not the root of all evil.

 

[The Rabbi]

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

I'm not sure you can really make that statement.

The word appears numerous times in the Torah to describe people. It means "challenger", "adversary", "accuser" or even "interlocutor".

Only once does "satan" refer to a specific being - and even there, it's clear that "satan" is an angel that God has assigned the duty of testing faith to, not the root of all evil.

It is a definite being. But not the Satan of Christian myth. Freud identified it as the Id.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

I'm not sure you can really make that statement.

Yup, that is what it is. The Hebrews and Jews did not think of the 'adversary' as we do of the Devil or Satan.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm not sure you can really make that statement.

The word appears numerous times in the Torah to describe people. It means "challenger", "adversary", "accuser" or even "interlocutor".

Only once does "satan" refer to a specific being - and even there, it's clear that "satan" is an angel that God has assigned the duty of testing faith to, not the root of all evil.

It is a definite being. But not the Satan of Christian myth. Freud identified it as the Id.

In the Hebrew text, it appears as ha-Satan (literally The Accuser). The article ha- is used to demonstrate that it's a title, not a proper name.

But the Freud analogy is fairly accurate, as far as I understand it.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

And we know what happens to people who disbelieve the rabbis.
I am inclined to agree with the good doctor: you are a poseur.

Anyone who disagrees with the Torah is a poseur.

Find me ANY translation of the Book of Job that doesn't identify Satan as a Being.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

And we know what happens to people who disbelieve the rabbis.
I am inclined to agree with the good doctor: you are a poseur.

Anyone who disagrees with the Torah is a poseur.

Find me ANY translation of the Book of Job that doesn't identify Satan as a Being.

I dont read translations.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

In English, the word "rose" is a descriptor of a flower, and is also a proper name.

In the Book of Job the word 'satan' is not be used as a descriptor, but the name of a Being having a conversation with God, who has the traits and characteristics of the word 'satan.'

You cannot deny that God has a conversation with a Being, correct? ANd what is that Being's name?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence come thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9.
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?

10.
Hast not you made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he has on every side? you have blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11.
But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse you to thy face.

12.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Are you suggesting that God was having a conversation with nothing?

 

[The Rabbi]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

In English, the word "rose" is a descriptor of a flower, and is also a proper name.

In the Book of Job the word 'satan' is not be used as a descriptor, but the name of a Being having a conversation with God, who has the traits and characteristics of the word 'satan.'

You cannot deny that God has a conversation with a Being, correct? ANd what is that Being's name?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence come thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9.
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?

10.
Hast not you made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he has on every side? you have blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11.
But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse you to thy face.

12.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Are you suggesting that God was having a conversation with nothing?

You clearly dont know wtf you're talking about. The Doctor is correct: the name is "haSoton", "The Satan".

 

[The2ndAmendment]

And we know what happens to people who disbelieve the rabbis.
I am inclined to agree with the good doctor: you are a poseur.

Anyone who disagrees with the Torah is a poseur.

Find me ANY translation of the Book of Job that doesn't identify Satan as a Being.

I dont read translations.

Good you walked into the trap.

Does not the original Hebrew text record a conversation between God and Satan?

 

[The Rabbi]

Anyone who disagrees with the Torah is a poseur.

Find me ANY translation of the Book of Job that doesn't identify Satan as a Being.

I dont read translations.

Good you walked into the trap.

Does not the original Hebrew text record a conversation between God and Satan?

ו וַיְהִי הַיּוֹם--וַיָּבֹאוּ בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים, לְהִתְיַצֵּב עַל-יְהוָה; וַיָּבוֹא גַם-הַשָּׂטָן, בְּתוֹכָם. 6 Now it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
ז וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-הַשָּׂטָן, מֵאַיִן תָּבֹא; וַיַּעַן הַשָּׂטָן אֶת-יְהוָה, וַיֹּאמַר, מִשּׁוּט בָּאָרֶץ, וּמֵהִתְהַלֵּךְ בָּהּ.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

You clearly dont know wtf you're talking about. The Doctor is correct: the name is "haSoton", "The Satan".

You are playing games with semantics that involves words with thousands of years of linguistic evolution and transliteration.

You avoid the answering the question about the Book of Job, why? To whom is God speaking? Answer that.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Torah disagrees with you, Satan is clearly a Being, just like I am a Being, and you are a Being. God clearly has a conversation with this Being. You could throw 20,000 pages of Rabbinic literature to the contrary, it doesn't matter.

In Hebrew, the word "satan" is a descriptor, not a proper name.

In English, the word "rose" is a descriptor of a flower, and is also a proper name.

In the Book of Job the word 'satan' is not be used as a descriptor, but the name of a Being having a conversation with God, who has the traits and characteristics of the word 'satan.'

You cannot deny that God has a conversation with a Being, correct? ANd what is that Being's name?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence come thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9.
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?

10.
Hast not you made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he has on every side? you have blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11.
But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse you to thy face.

12.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Are you suggesting that God was having a conversation with nothing?

I think it's hilarious that you're basing your understanding of the Torah on an English translation while I'm discussing the Hebrew language.

The "being" that God conversed with in the Book of Job had the title "ha-Satan", "the adversary". The being's "name" is not given.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The "being" that God conversed with in the Book of Job had the title "ha-Satan", "the adversary". The being's "name" is not given.

I'm looking at it, G-D is having a conversation, so who is He conversing with?

וַיַּעַן הַשָּׂטָן אֶת-יְהוָה, וַיֹּאמַר: הַחִנָּם, יָרֵא אִיּוֹב אֱלֹהִים.​

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The "being" that God conversed with in the Book of Job had the title "ha-Satan", "the adversary". The being's "name" is not given.

I'm looking at it, G-D is having a conversation, so who is He conversing with?

וַיַּעַן הַשָּׂטָן אֶת-יְהוָה, וַיֹּאמַר: הַחִנָּם, יָרֵא אִיּוֹב אֱלֹהִים.​

An angel.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Who is God conversing with in the Book of Job?

Who is God conversing with in the Book of Job?

Who is God conversing with in the Book of Job?

Who is God conversing with in the Book of Job?

Who is God conversing with in the Book of Job?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm looking at it, G-D is having a conversation, so who is He conversing with?

וַיַּעַן הַשָּׂטָן אֶת-יְהוָה, וַיֹּאמַר: הַחִנָּם, יָרֵא אִיּוֹב אֱלֹהִים.​

An angel.

And what is the angel's name?

And what is the angel's name?

And what is the angel's name?

And what is the angel's name?

And what is the angel's name?

The "name" of the angel is not mentioned.

The "name" of the angel is not mentioned.

The "name" of the angel is not mentioned.

The "name" of the angel is not mentioned.

The "name" of the angel is not mentioned.

The "name" of the angel is not mentioned.