Zone1 Did mankind's spirits exist prior to coming to this earth?

[onefour1]

Your ENTIRE post is based onto "private" - self-written testimonials - that lack any proof whatsoever, so what is the point of your thread???

If you chose to believe onto something that lacks any proof - you can just as well believe anything that suits your personal mindset. Incl. that Trump was send by God and that his soul is unblemished and pure

I take it on faith. You have no proof of your accusations either so I will ignore them.

 

[Libby von H]

Premortal Life​

• See also Beginning; Council in Heaven; Man, Men; War in Heaven

The life before earth life. All men and women lived with God as His spirit children before coming to the earth as mortal beings. This is sometimes called the first estate (Abr. 3:26).

• When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:4–7.
• The spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12:7.
• Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1:4–5.
• We are all his offspring, Acts 17:28.
• God chose us before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:3–4.
• We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.
• The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains, Jude 1:6 (Abr. 3:26).
• The Devil and his angels were cast out, Rev. 12:9.
• They were called and prepared from the foundation of the world, Alma 13:3.
• Christ looked upon the expanse of eternity and hosts of heaven before the world was made, D&C 38:1.
• Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93:29 (Hel. 14:17; D&C 49:17).
• Noble spirits were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church, D&C 138:53–55.
• Many received their first lessons in the world of spirits, D&C 138:56.
• All things were created spiritually before they were on earth, Moses 3:5.
• I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh, Moses 6:51.
• Abraham saw the intelligences that were organized before the world was, Abr. 3:21–24.

NOtice that you deny 3 central concepts of Western Civilization.
Great Chain of Being
The Logos of God, man, and the Unverse
The spritual nature of the soul (De Anima)

Because we must first be a thought to God before He creates us. But we do not exist UNTIL He creates us.
Even Plato said this,on reason alone. God is the Exemplar Cause
The cause that an intelligent being uses as the pattern or model, in the mind, for producing some effect.

 

[onefour1]

NOtice that you deny 3 central concepts of Western Civilization.
Great Chain of Being
The Logos of God, man, and the Unverse
The spritual nature of the soul (De Anima)

Because we must first be a thought to God before He creates us. But we do not exist UNTIL He creates us.
Even Plato said this,on reason alone. God is the Exemplar Cause
The cause that an intelligent being uses as the pattern or model, in the mind, for producing some effect.

Where do you come up with the 3 central concepts of Western Civilization?

Great Chain of Being - I am guessing that this refers to everyone having a progenitor other than God himself. How do you see that I am denying that we have progenitors?

The Logos of God, Man, and the Universe - The Logos actually refers to the Word of God. Jesus is known as the Word of God. What am I denying about the Word of God?

The Spiritual Nature of the Soul (De Anima) - How am I denying that our spirits are not spiritual? I don't look to Aristotle for my spiritual teachings but only unto God.

Of course God thought about creating our spirits before he created them. How do you think that I don't believe God gave this forethought? I do however disagree with the idea that we do not exist until God creates us. My belief, which comes from the revelations of God himself, is that the intelligences of mankind are self-existing and have always existed.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

God took those self-existing intelligences and combined them with self-existing eternal matter to create our spirit bodies through the process of procreation.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

I don't believe God created everything out of nothing. I believe that the intelligences of the universe are eternal and the elements or matter is eternal by nature. They have always existed. God, as a creator, is the great organizer of the universe. I don't believe that God creates anything out of absolute nothingness. God somehow was able to take our self-existing intelligences and matter and through the process of procreation He and His Wife gave birth to our spirits which are in the very image of God Himself. The Apostle Paul taught that we are the very offspring of God.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Paul also taught that God is the Father of our Spirits:

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

To me these are the revelations of God. I do not go by Plato and Aristotle, etc. for my knowledge of God but look at the revelations of God to see what God himself has to say regarding how things really are.

 

[Kruska]

I take it on faith. You have no proof of your accusations either so I will ignore them.

There is abundant proof available (science and archeology) that discounts your Bible-stories in every single aspect.

You however prefer to place superstition and self-written childlike stories above scientific and archeological facts - that is your "personal choice".
But try to refrain from propagating that science and archeology wouldn't prove the Bible, to be totally wrong, aka a made up book for simpletons.

 

[Woodznutz]

There is abundant proof available (science and archeology) that discounts your Bible-stories in every single aspect.

You however prefer to place superstition and self-written childlike stories above scientific and archeological facts - that is your "personal choice".
But try to refrain from propagating that science and archeology wouldn't prove the Bible, to be totally wrong, aka a made up book for simpletons.

Science is the study of God's creation. Sadly, most scientists are unaware of this fact.

 

[onefour1]

There is abundant proof available (science and archeology) that discounts your Bible-stories in every single aspect.

You however prefer to place superstition and self-written childlike stories above scientific and archeological facts - that is your "personal choice".
But try to refrain from propagating that science and archeology wouldn't prove the Bible, to be totally wrong, aka a made up book for simpletons.

Ok, well give me your proof through science and archeology that God does not exist.

 

[Kruska]

I take it on faith. You have no proof of your accusations either so I will ignore them.

On the contra - anyone who really knows about the Bibles contents and FACTUAL archeological "proven" research - has all the proof one needs to discount the Desert Religions, aka their belief. Starting right off with Adam&Eve.

Therefore as I stated numerous times in "religious threads" - a Desert Religion believer can believe whatever he wants, (and that is exactly as to what they do). However he has no proof nor can he discount the facts, that proof these "teachings" to be wrong and fake.

 

[Kruska]

Science is the study of God's creation. Sadly, most scientists are unaware of this fact.

There is no such thing as a God - so how can science and archeology be the study of God's creation???

Either you proof the existence of God (which you can't) - or you simply chose to believe into a self-written story book, made for simplistic minds some 3000 years ago. You are also free to adhere to stone-age believes that e.g. the sun is God, who goes to sleep at average for 10 hours per day.

 

[onefour1]

On the contra - anyone who really knows about the Bibles contents and FACTUAL archeological "proven" research - has all the proof one needs to discount the Desert Religions, aka their belief. Starting right off with Adam&Eve.

Therefore as I stated numerous times in "religious threads" - a Desert Religion believer can believe whatever he wants, (and that is exactly as to what they do). However he has no proof nor can he discount the facts, that proof these "teachings" to be wrong and fake.

State the actual proof.

 

[Kruska]

State the actual proof.

I see - you don't even know about the totally fantasized content and thus false and errant statements of your Book.

But do tell me; do you believe in what is written in the Bible in it's entirety - or you just pick out those parts you personally like and that suit your individual belief? aka YOU (a puny insignificant human - aka Gods creature) chooses which part of "God's words" are true and which ones are not.

 

[onefour1]

I see - you don't even know about the totally fantasized content and thus false and errant statements of your Book.

But do tell me; do you believe in what is written in the Bible in it's entirety - or you just pick out those parts you personally like and that suit your individual belief? aka YOU (a puny insignificant human - aka Gods creature) chooses which part of "God's words" are true and which ones are not.

Still waiting for your proof!

 

[Kruska]

Still waiting for your proof!

Cute try - YOU are the one who propagates the contents of a book for simpletons, to be supposed Facts. !!

So do show me a proof for this kiddo Adam&Eve story. That according to your own Bibles genealogical account - supposedly happened at around 4000 B.C.
Whilst any one who went to school and "paid attention" knows that todays humans already existed 20,000 years PRIOR.
And therefore you knowingly opted to ignore my question:

But do tell me; do you believe in what is written in the Bible in it's entirety - or you just pick out those parts you personally like and that suit your individual belief? aka YOU (a puny insignificant human - aka Gods creature) chooses which part of "God's words" are true and which ones are not.

 

[onefour1]

Cute try - YOU are the one who propagates the contents of a book for simpletons, to be supposed Facts. !!

So do show me a proof for this kiddo Adam&Eve story. That according to your own Bibles genealogical account - supposedly happened at around 4000 B.C.
Whilst any one who went to school and "paid attention" knows that todays humans already existed 20,000 years PRIOR.
And therefore you knowingly opted to ignore my question:

But do tell me; do you believe in what is written in the Bible in it's entirety - or you just pick out those parts you personally like and that suit your individual belief? aka YOU (a puny insignificant human - aka Gods creature) chooses which part of "God's words" are true and which ones are not.

I don't profess to have proof for the things I have faith in. Yes, I do believe they are true but I have not claimed that I have proof but simply have faith that the world of God is true. However, here is one of your quotes above:

"There is abundant proof available (science and archeology) that discounts your Bible-stories in every single aspect."

I am simply asking you to provide your proof that you so boldly claim. But I am starting to believe that you don't have any! You keep avoiding my request like the plague.

 

[Woodznutz]

There is no such thing as a God - so how can science and archeology be the study of God's creation???

Either you proof the existence of God (which you can't) - or you simply chose to believe into a self-written story book, made for simplistic minds some 3000 years ago. You are also free to adhere to stone-age believes that e.g. the sun is God, who goes to sleep at average for 10 hours per day.

The preponderance of evidence suggests a supreme being.

 

[Cougarbear]

I see - you don't even know about the totally fantasized content and thus false and errant statements of your Book.

But do tell me; do you believe in what is written in the Bible in it's entirety - or you just pick out those parts you personally like and that suit your individual belief? aka YOU (a puny insignificant human - aka Gods creature) chooses which part of "God's words" are true and which ones are not.

Can’t answer? Why not? You are hiding something.

 

[Kruska]

The preponderance of evidence suggests a supreme being.

What evidence? that self-written book?

 

[Woodznutz]

What evidence? that self-written book?

The creation.

 

[Kruska]

The creation.

Planet Earth EVOLVED over a period of around 4.5 billion years, it wasn't created, nor made habitable for humans by some fictive God - and certainly not some 6000 years ago. (see your self-composed Bible).

Again you are citing a self-written book (written and fantasized upon by numerous humans who didn't posses any scientific knowledge nor background) who at the time even propagated that the Sun rotates around the Earth (even though e.g. the Egyptians knew that to be wrong a 1000-2000 years before those kiddo books OT and NT were written) and that Earth was flat, etc. etc.

Even the Maya's and Aztecs in the 14th century AD, were far more advanced in regards to astronomy - then these backward and clueless Christians.

Any Religion is simply about imposing their respective moral standards - since humans do not accept any standards that aren't imposed onto them via a recognized or repressive authority - those story writers came up with "inventing" an indisputable authority, aka GOD and those religious institutions spend thousands of years to indoctrinate, suppress, and kill anyone who objected towards their invented authority and their false teachings.

You and any other religious person, is simply the product/result of thousands of years of indoctrination and suppression. aka people who can't or are too lazy to think for themselves.

Therefore keep your kiddo books teachings to yourself - and simply enjoy your religious believes by yourself and amongst those other believers.

 

[Woodznutz]

Planet Earth EVOLVED over a period of around 4.5 billion years, it wasn't created, nor made habitable for humans by some fictive God - and certainly not some 6000 years ago. (see your self-composed Bible).

Again you are citing a self-written book (written and fantasized upon by numerous humans who didn't posses any scientific knowledge nor background) who at the time even propagated that the Sun rotates around the Earth (even though e.g. the Egyptians knew that to be wrong a 1000-2000 years before those kiddo books OT and NT were written) and that Earth was flat, etc. etc.

Even the Maya's and Aztecs in the 14th century AD, were far more advanced in regards to astronomy - then these backward and clueless Christians.

Any Religion is simply about imposing their respective moral standards - since humans do not accept any standards that aren't imposed onto them via a recognized or repressive authority - those story writers came up with "inventing" an indisputable authority, aka GOD and those religious institutions spend thousands of years to indoctrinate, suppress, and kill anyone who objected towards their invented authority and their false teachings.

You and any other religious person, is simply the product/result of thousands of years of indoctrination and suppression. aka people who can't or are too lazy to think for themselves.

Therefore keep your kiddo books teachings to yourself - and simply enjoy your religious believes by yourself and amongst those other believers.

This is the "Religion and Ethics forum, cowbird. Your post is neither.

 

[Woodznutz]

There is no such thing as a God - so how can science and archeology be the study of God's creation???

Either you proof the existence of God (which you can't) - or you simply chose to believe into a self-written story book, made for simplistic minds some 3000 years ago. You are also free to adhere to stone-age believes that e.g. the sun is God, who goes to sleep at average for 10 hours per day.

Works for me.