Zone1 Satan

[TNHarley]

That is precisely what the Bible tries to tell us, that God is beyond our understanding.

No and no.

Apparently so

 

[norwegen]

Idolatry was God’s arch enemy, the Satan (or the Hebrew sâtân) who opposed and plotted against Him. These people crawled on their bellies because they worshipped idols. They were snakes. They would eventually form a political party they called the Pharisees.

In the New Testament, Jesus confronted this deceit. Since then, not only would Israelite remnants walk with God, but all who entered the fold would walk with Him.

 

[onefour1]

Below are some of the verses in scripture that teach us about Satan:

Doctrine and Covenants 76:25-39
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

Abraham 3:22-28
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Moses 4:1-6
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
5 And now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made.
6 And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Basically I believe that Satan was previously called Lucifer and was a messenger of God (angel) who was also one of his children who rebelled against the Father and his plan of salvation and in his rebellion he convinced 1/3 of the hosts of heaven (other children of God) to side with him and they became his angels (messengers) spreading his false message. Lucifer then had his name changed to Perdition and Satan and was cast out of heaven with all his angels into the earth I believe that all angels are mankind. Before the days of Jesus all angels were disembodied spirit who belong to this earth unless they were translated beings. A translated being is one who's life is extended for longer than a normal life. After the resurrection of Jesus, those who have come to earth and received bodies could be resurrected and serve as angels also. Isaiah 14:16 tells us that Lucifer is a man even though he was an angel. Lucifer was a fallen son of God who rebelled against God in heaven. All of Satan's angels were sons of God who sided with Lucifer and did not keep their first estate which is their belief in God in the premortal existence. Now that we have come to this earth, we have enter our second estate. This is what Abraham 3:26 above is speaking of and what Jude 1:6 is telling us:

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[HaShev]

So the only punishment Satan ever got from God, was banishment. Which is weird because God created him and knew this would happen.. anyway..
There is no other punishment for Satan, if you even call that a punishment.
But this loving God will punish his creation, that he supposedly loves, while not punishing Satan? He punished the tempted, not the tempter...
Doesnt that seem a bit messed up to you?
Can anyone explain this?

Satan meaning Adversary was Babylon then Rome, the fallen imposter was only an image of a man(Ezekiel 28) created by Babylon then lifted high by Rome as a mask for it's political authority, so mythological figures aren't punished, but the kingdoms which used the lies to control steal and kill through have fallen.

 

[forkintheroad7]

So the only punishment Satan ever got from God, was banishment. Which is weird because God created him and knew this would happen.. anyway..
There is no other punishment for Satan, if you even call that a punishment.
But this loving God will punish his creation, that he supposedly loves, while not punishing Satan? He punished the tempted, not the tempter...
Doesnt that seem a bit messed up to you?
Can anyone explain this?

It's a valid sounding point.

But really, Satan was not just banished, he was banished from God's holy Presence and ultimately, he will be banished forever to Hell. I say he is on the earth at this time, but that's just me. I don't know what the Catholic Church officially teaches about where Satan abides.

In any case, to lose God is a horrible, horrible sentence. When you lose God, you lose all the good things He created. . summer days... the ocean... trees... kittens ----

 

[forkintheroad7]

He will be thrown into the pit of hell.


St. Augustine described Satan perfectly:
He has refused to accept reality and in his arrogant pride presumes to counterfeit an unreality.

St Augustine seems to describe some people I know (used to know)

We all probably know a few

 

[forkintheroad7]

I suspect that he asked God for too many favors.

No, he didn't like how God was doing things. I believe specifically, he didn't believe that "the Word [should] become flesh and dwell among us" schmucky humans who are sinners. But I am not speaking for the Catholic Church here... just things I've read on the topic

 

[HaShev]

It's a valid sounding point.

But really, Satan was not just banished, he was banished from God's holy Presence and ultimately, he will be banished forever to Hell. I say he is on the earth at this time, but that's just me. I don't know what the Catholic Church officially teaches about where Satan abides.

In any case, to lose God is a horrible, horrible sentence. When you lose God, you lose all the good things He created. . summer days... the ocean... trees... kittens ----

to be banished from the world to come (Olam Habah) means in the age of information, the future (world to come) the image of a man is exposed for the iniquities this image caused us (Ezekiel 28:14-15) -the fall of the one claimed a god(son of perdition), claimed an anointed(christ) guardian (cherub) and perfect.

 

[BackAgain]

So the only punishment Satan ever got from God, was banishment. Which is weird because God created him and knew this would happen.. anyway..
There is no other punishment for Satan, if you even call that a punishment.
But this loving God will punish his creation, that he supposedly loves, while not punishing Satan? He punished the tempted, not the tempter...
Doesnt that seem a bit messed up to you?
Can anyone explain this?

If Heaven is perfect, what was the discord all about? Why would any angels have fallen?

Our stories about Heaven come from humans who tried to make some sense of things with basically no information by which to do so.

Another reason why, although I do believe in God, I find it impossible to believe that God could ever believe in religion.

 

[forkintheroad7]

to be banished from the world to come (Olam Habah) means in the age of information, the future (world to come) the image of a man is exposed for the iniquities this image caused us (Ezekiel 28:14-15) -the fall of the one claimed a god(son of perdition), claimed an anointed(christ) guardian (cherub) and perfect.

I didn't understand this so can't comment

 

[forkintheroad7]

If Heaven is perfect, what was the discord all about? Why would any angels have fallen?

Our stories about Heaven come from humans who tried to make some sense of things with basically no information by which to do so.

Another reason why, although I do believe in God, I find it impossible to believe that God could ever believe in religion.

You haven't read the Old Testament, apparently. Or maybe you think that was all made up by humans also?

Well, I can't prove otherwise and won't try to.

But in the Old T it says that God told the Israelites to do things thus and so (when building the Ark of the Covenant, etc) and then told them that only the Levites could carry the Ark. When someone else who was not a Levite (priest) touched it, that person died. This is history and no one is going to record such an event (a death) unless it happened (presumably). And there are numerous other examples of God speaking to man and telling him how he wanted things done. Today, no one even thinks of listening to God, it seems... The ones who try to are called fanatics and crazies. In the Old days, that was also the case. They killed the prophets who spoke for God. Then they killed Jesus. So yeh... why would anyone write down all the history of the Jews and risk also being killed---unless it were the truth ?

 

[BackAgain]

You haven't read the Old Testament, apparently. Or maybe you think that was all made up by humans also?

Well, I can't prove otherwise and won't try to.

But in the Old T it says that God told the Israelites to do things thus and so (when building the Ark of the Covenant, etc) and then told them that only the Levites could carry the Ark. When someone else who was not a Levite (priest) touched it, that person died. This is history and no one is going to record such an event (a death) unless it happened (presumably). And there are numerous other examples of God speaking to man and telling him how he wanted things done. Today, no one even thinks of listening to God, it seems... The ones who try to are called fanatics and crazies. In the Old days, that was also the case. They killed the prophets who spoke for God. Then they killed Jesus. So yeh... why would anyone write down all the history of the Jews and risk also being killed---unless it were the truth ?

I don’t put any stock in the Old Testament.

I have no quarrel with those who do.

 

[HaShev]

I didn't understand this so can't comment

banished from the future just as Dagon lost favor then his son baal was no longer favored, now it's Baal's son the morning star which Christians complain is being banished in todays society.
-Rev 12:16

 

[shimon]

banished from the future just as Dagon lost favor then his son baal was no longer favored, now it's Baal's son the morning star which Christians complain is being banished in todays society.
-Rev 12:16

The morning/ mourning Star… The one they mourn for and long for… It is interesting how long this fiasco has continued… Words can be broken down into baser meaning or hidden ones in plain sight… Any who hold onto the idol will be “ Ban(ned) ISH( is a Hebrew word that means MAN) from partaking in the future perfected earth..Meaning that that generation will die out in the wilderness and will not see or partake of the “ promised land” Just like the generation of idol worshipping Israelites were not allowed to partake of it either only their offspring that were untainted were allowed too…

 

[HaShev]

The morning/ mourning Star… The one they mourn for and long for… It is interesting how long this fiasco has continued… Words can be broken down into baser meaning or hidden ones in plain sight… Any who hold onto the idol will be “ Ban(ned) ISH( is a Hebrew word that means MAN) from partaking in the future perfected earth..Meaning that that generation will die out in the wilderness and will not see or partake of the “ promised land” Just like the generation of idol worshipping Israelites were not allowed to partake of it either only their offspring that were untainted were allowed too…

because their reliance is in the idol instead of the things it takes to create the paradise to live in.
Furthermore in making the paradise in death, the fallen idol brings society to death worship instead of seeing the potential paradise in life and working to create that stable progressed state of being. In teaching that free get out of sin card in the idol, they allow sins to flourish and with the false sense of auto paradise in death, they create the opposite in life then have the nerve to ask why is life so unstable cruel and evil, well it's the worship of this falken idol and it's maek of death (the cross) with the false promise of eternity (in death) not in life(creators creation).

 

[shimon]

because their reliance is in the idol instead of the things it takes to create the paradise to live in.
Furthermore in making the paradise in death, the fallen idol brings society to death worship instead of seeing the potential paradise in life and working to create that stable progressed state of being. In teaching that free get out of sin card in the idol, they allow sins to flourish and with the false sense of auto paradise in death, they create the opposite in life then have the nerve to ask why is life so unstable cruel and evil, well it's the worship of this falken idol and it's maek of death (the cross) with the false promise of eternity (in death) not in life(creators creation).
because their reliance is in the idol instead of the things it takes to create the paradise to live in.
Furthermore in making the paradise in death, the fallen idol brings society to death worship instead of seeing the potential paradise in life and working to create that stable progressed state of being. In teaching that free get out of sin card in the idol, they allow sins to flourish and with the false sense of auto paradise in death, they create the opposite in life then have the nerve to ask why is life so unstable cruel and evil, well it's the worship of this falken idol and it's maek of death (the cross) with the false promise of eternity (in death) not in life(creators creation).

Just so there is no confusion by others not us…lol.. I am going to paraphrase some of your past words and mine if you don’t min…. Please feel free to comment if I missed anything here….. Worshipping Jesus as a substitute for the gd of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is the idol worshipping we are talking about ..



The prophets (including Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel) were spokesmen for God to the people and to their leaders: they often disagreed with the men in power and had no fear of expressing their messages from God -- generally directing against the idolatry and "false gods." Jeremiah warned the people not to use idols such as totem-pole-like "gods"
Idols: it has Imigrated into Men’s minds from the dogma’s of the churches philosophies, also from the wrong path of the Hierarchy that imposes the control. It is in the way they bow to the cross, burn candles, kiss medalions and worship a Prophet as God Himself in place of God. One of the things that G0D forbids is idols, worship using images gods or even of G0D himself (Exodus 20:4 and Leviticus 26:1). Man, as it is written, was created as an image of G0D (Genesis 1:27). And, so, worshipping a man as G0D is idolatry.
After all, G0D himself says that "G0D is not a man" (in Isaiah 2:22, 14:13, I Samuel 15:29, Numbers 23:19, and Hosea 11:9).


In Isiah44;9 It states they that make a graven image are all of them vanity and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses;(christians) they see not; nor know; that they may be ashamed. Still confused well here is some more.
Isaiah44;13 The carpenter
( was Jesus not considered a carpenter?) strecheth out his rule(over the world)he marketh it out with a line;he fitteth it with planes and he marketh it out with a compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man(JESUS);according to the beauty of a man;that it mat remain in the house(Maybe over your bed?) One more passage Isiah44;17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god(JESUS)Even his graven image(AGAIN JESUS);He falleth down unto it and worshippeth it. and prayeth unto it and saith Deliver me; for this art my god(JESUS).