Revolution in France

[Bonnie]

Reflections on the Revolution in France
By Daniel Pipes (11/08/05)

The rioting by Muslim youth that began Oct. 27 in France to calls of “Allahu Akbar” may be a turning point in European history.

What started in Clichy-sous-Bois, on the outskirts of Paris, by its eleventh night had spread to 300 French cities and towns, as well as to Belgium and Germany. The violence, which has already been called some evocative names – intifada, jihad, guerilla war, insurrection, rebellion, and civil war – prompts several reflections:

End of an era: The time of cultural innocence and political naïveté, when the French could blunder without seeing or feeling the consequences, is closing. As in other European countries (notably Denmark and Spain), a bundle of related issues, all touching on the Muslim presence, has now moved to the top of the policy agenda in France, where it will likely remain for decades.

These issues include a decline of Christian faith and the attendant demographic collapse; a cradle-to-grave welfare system that lures immigrants even as it saps long-term economic viability; an alienation from historic customs in favor of lifestyle experimentation and vapid multiculturalism; an inability to control borders or assimilate immigrants; a pattern of criminality that finds European cities far more violent than American ones; and a surge in Islam and radical Islam.

Not a first: The French insurrection are by no means the first instance of a semi-organized Muslim insurgency in Europe – it was preceded days earlier by one riot in Birmingham, England and was accompanied by another one in Århus, Denmark. France itself has a history of Muslim violence going back to 1979. What is different in the current round is its duration, magnitude, planning, and ferocity.

Media denial: The French press delicately refers to the “urban violence” and presents the rioters as victims of the system. Mainstream media deny that it has to do with Islam and ignore the permeating Islamist ideology, with its vicious anti-French attitudes and its raw ambition to dominate the country and replace its civilization with Islam’s.

Another method of jihad: Indigenous Muslims of northwestern Europe have in the past year deployed three distinct forms of jihad: the crude variety deployed in the United Kingdom, killing random passengers moving around London; the targeted variety in the Netherlands, where individual political and cultural leaders are singled out, threatened, and in some cases attacked; and now the more diffuse violence in France, less specifically murderous but also politically less dismissible. Which of these or other methods will prove most efficacious is yet unclear, but the British variant is clearly counterproductive, so the Dutch and French strategies will probably recur.

Sarkozy vs. Villepin: Two leading French politicians and probable candidates for president in 2007, Nicholas Sarkozy and Dominique de Villepin, have responded to the riots in starkly contrasting ways, with the former adopting a hard line (proclaiming “tolérance zéro” for urban crime) and the latter a soft one (promising an “action plan” to improve urban conditions).

Anti-state: The riots started eight days after Sarkozy declared a new policy of “war without mercy” on urban violence and two days after he called violent youth “scum.” Many rioters see themselves in a power struggle with the state and so focus their attacks on its symbols. A typical report quotes Mohamed, 20, the son of a Moroccan immigrant, asserting that a “Sarko has declared war …, so it’s war he’s going to get.” Representatives of the rioters have demanded that the French police leave the “occupied territories”; in turn, Sarkozy partially blamed the riots on “fundamentalists.”

The French can respond in three ways. They can feel guilty and appease the rioters with prerogatives and the “massive investment plan” some are demanding. Or they can heave a sigh of relief when it ends and, as they did after earlier crises, return to business as usual. Or they can understand this as the opening salvo in a would-be revolution and take the difficult steps to undo the negligence and indulgence of past decades.

I expect a blend of the first two reactions and that, despite Sarkozy’s surge in the polls, Villepin’s appeasing approach will prevail. France must await something larger and more awful to awake it from its somnolence. The long-term prognosis, however, is inescapable: “the sweet dream of universal cultural compatibility has been replaced,” as Theodore Dalrymple puts it, “by the nightmare of permanent conflict.”

http://www.americandaily.com/article/10089

 

[Said1]

They're finally enforcing curfews! Finally, an admission that things are out of control!

 

[Adam's Apple]

Excellent article, Bonnie. I think the Chirac government, in handling this revolt as a police action, is making all the same mistakes the Clinton Administration did in the 1990s by handling the attacks on Americans and American property as police actions.

 

[CSM]

Excellent article, Bonnie. I think the Chirac government, in handling this revolt as a police action, is making all the same mistakes the Clinton Administration did in the 1990s by handling the attacks on Americans and American property as police actions.

Heck, the French considered the invasion of their capitol in WW II by the Germans as a police action!

 

[KarlMarx]

Time for another crusade, this time, instead of getting Jerusalem back from the heathen hoard, let's settle for Paris

BTW...

George W. Bush phoned Jacque Chirac about the situation in his country and said "Ayatollah you so!"

 

[Bonnie]

Time for another crusade, this time, instead of getting Jerusalem back from the heathen hoard, let's settle for Paris

BTW...

George W. Bush phoned Jacque Chirac about the situation in his country and said "Ayatollah you so!"

April in Paris sounds good to me, if there's anything left that is?<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSXXXXXX42US' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_12_1.gif' alt='Arc De Triomphe' border=0></a>

 

[dmp]

I can't believe some people. I was listening to the TV when I heard something like '...and what they need to do is listen to these troubled folks. Maybe if the French government could understand their frustration, they could initiate options for the people - allow them to make better choices.'

Cave? Cave in the face of violence? Why does that not surprise me, coming from the French.

Kill them. Arrest them. Do what it takes.

 

[Bonnie]

I can't believe some people. I was listening to the TV when I heard something like '...and what they need to do is listen to these troubled folks. Maybe if the French government could understand their frustration, they could initiate options for the people - allow them to make better choices.'

Cave? Cave in the face of violence? Why does that not surprise me, coming from the French.

Kill them. Arrest them. Do what it takes.

France's make no waves policy on terrorism is coming back to bite them right on the ass.....

 

[KarlMarx]

April in Paris sounds good to me, if there's anything left that is?<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSXXXXXX42US' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_12_1.gif' alt='Arc De Triomphe' border=0></a>

They ought to do a remake of "American in Paris" but instead of being a musical, it'll be an action picture with Sylvester Stallone, Bruce Willis and Ahhhhnold

France's make no waves policy on terrorism is coming back to bite them right on the ass.....

Are you gloating? Yeah, me too!

 

[Bonnie]

They ought to do a remake of "American in Paris" but instead of being a musical, it'll be an action picture with Sylvester Stallone, Bruce Willis and Ahhhhnold


Are you gloating? Yeah, me too!

Um yeah a bit...Im also concerned they may not get the message. :ali:

 

[KarlMarx]

Um yeah a bit...Im also concerned they may not get the message. :ali:

Oh, and by the way, if you do go to Paris next spring, be sure to pack a burka!

 

[Bonnie]

Oh, and by the way, if you do go to Paris next spring, be sure to pack a burka!

Gee that's a tricky one considering burka's have been banned along with crosses in their attempt to neutralize any religious expression. So I suppose I'll just have to revisit my pictures of Paris and be happy I saw it before it burned

 

[KarlMarx]

Gee that's a tricky one considering burka's have been banned along with crosses in their attempt to neutralize any religious expression. So I suppose I'll just have to revisit my pictures of Paris and be happy I saw it before it burned

Yes, I forgot about that....

well, cheer up, you can always use the burka for a tent if you ever should decide to go camping!

 

[Bonnie]

Yes, I forgot about that....

well, cheer up, you can always use the burka for a tent if you ever should decide to go camping!

As long as it's big enough to make a tent with a floor

 

[KarlMarx]

oh well... but seriously folks.....

I wonder if there's a bright side to all of this.... as in we won't be hearing about how the Patriot Act is "taking away all of our freedoms" and help convince even the looniest Senator that the Patriot Act should be made permanent.

 

[Annie]

Um yeah a bit...Im also concerned they may not get the message. :ali:

They are not getting the message. In another thread PE is in total denial. Something about what they have going on their not as bad as our gang problems. Uh, his post was today. :fifty:

 

[Gunny]

It's pretty sad when the French can't even kick their own asses.

 

[Bonnie]

They are not getting the message. In another thread PE is in total denial. Something about what they have going on their not as bad as our gang problems. Uh, his post was today. :fifty:

Observing the riots in the suburbs of Paris, an American is tempted to rejoice. Are not the French getting their just desserts for their arrogance, opposition and condescension toward the United States and for their observation that the predominantly poor victims of Hurricane Katrina revealed an ugly underside of America that they happily condemned?

Unfortunately, laughing at the French dilemma is a luxury we can only briefly afford, because what is happening in France among many of their Muslim immigrants is the immediate future for all of Europe and a probable future for the United States, if the West does not immediately and effectively confront this spreading threat.

France thought it could import millions of people who do not share its tolerant and laissez-faire philosophy and not pay a price. The Muslim population in France is now estimated at about 5 million (compared to a total French population of about 60 million).

This is only an estimate, because French law forbids census questions related to one's religion. It is believed that there could be as many as 8 million Muslims in France. This compares to estimates between 12 to 20 million in all of the European Union.


High fertility rates among France's Muslim population, coupled with low fertility rates among the native-born French (the government is offering cash incentives to middle-class French women to have more babies), and increasing Muslim immigration from North Africa, contribute to the undermining of French culture and social and political stability.

Anti-Semitism has been on the rise in France for years, as incidents ranging from graffiti to violence against Jews become almost daily occurrences.

France is experiencing what other Western nations are, or will soon, experience: millions of Muslim youth who identify with the larger and borderless "Muslim World" and less, or not at all, with their host countries. Mosques erected in these countries are growing as rapidly as Starbucks or McDonald's franchises. The same is true in the United States. According to the Hartford Institute for Religion Research's recent Faith Communities Today study, the total number of mosques in the United States increased 42 percent between 1990 and 2000, second only to the growth of Christian "mega churches." Many of these mosques are built with the help of Saudi Arabia, which adheres to the Wahhabi sect of Islam, the religion's most puritanical and violent wing. In some cases, the mosques are connected to schools that teach separation from American values and hatred of Jews and Christians.

France will be America's future, if we don't stop denying that this invasion is deliberate and purposeful. If we don't end the proliferation of radical Muslims, it would not be out of the question to predict a terrorist plot to blow up American cities, if the U.S. government fails to bow to fanatical demands to abandon Israel. What would the government do if weapons of mass destruction were placed in our cities and it was announced that unless Washington met their demands, millions of Americans would be annihilated? Before you start accusing me of bigotry, on what basis - other than your wishful thinking and refusal to confront this threat - do you base your position?

This is not going to be pleasant for countries and cultures that have believed in the "melting pot," but radical surgery on a growing cancer is what is needed when early warning signs have been ignored. France must deport the most dangerous and violent radicals whose goal is to turn the country into an Islamic state dominated by Sharia law. The message should be: if you engage in or promote violence, you're gone from the country.

In the United States, a concerted effort is being made to convert more of us to Islam, especially in prisons. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, in September 2003, some 5.5 percent of the federal inmate population (172,785 on Oct. 6, 2003) were some form of Muslim. Why shouldn't we fight back by reaching out to them with our religious and political doctrines? I know Muslims who have been converted and now live peaceful and productive lives among us. We shouldn't passively allow them to proceed with their conversion agenda with no response. Let's peacefully and lovingly share our far better religious and cultural message with them.

France has reached its limit. It must not allow more immigrants of the type who are rioting in the country and it must deport the troublemakers within its borders. There is no other way. Have the French learned their lesson? Will the United States learn from France?

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/calthomas/2005/11/09/174879.html

 

[Said1]

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/calthomas/2005/11/09/174879.html

So much for the Enlightenment's legacy of "Liberty, Equality and Fraternity".

 

[Hobbit]

France has had more regimes than a banana republic. Another revolution shouldn't be much of a surprise.