Removing The Burden Of America’s Original Sin

[Eric Arthur Blair]

In that regard they were no worse than the Europeans. I'd say their respect for individual freedom though was greater.

Except for the people turned into slaves who were on the losing side of tribal wars, of course.
No "individual freedom" there no matter how many times your ignore the subject.

They found grasslands more productive, just ask the buffalo that thrived there. Most European forests are long gone by now, cleared for farms.

Yeah!l No shit after forests were burned to the ground.
And you seem to believe that plains Indians
were interchangeable with coastal and mountain tribes.
Your understanding of North American Indian tribes is "incomplete" to say the least.
The tribes that burned down forests didn't just decide to pack up and live among the tribes of the great plains.

https://kids.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/native-people-of-the-american-great-plains.

You can't just move into a better neighborhood.
There are already lots of people there.

Yet buffalo, elk, moose, and bears did well. I think it was climate change that did the job.

In some cases yes but in most cases it was man hunting a species into extinction.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In that regard they were no worse than the Europeans. I'd say their respect for individual freedom though was greater.


They found grasslands more productive, just ask the buffalo that thrived there. Most European forests are long gone by now, cleared for farms.


Yet buffalo, elk, moose, and bears did well. I think it was climate change that did the job.

The best thing about this fool is that he doesn't mind folks knowing he's a fool.



"... just ask the buffalo that thrived there."


"....American Indians displayed a similar lack of sensitivity to the "complex web of life". The Sioux, as Daniel Guthrie has noted, "showed no qualms about driving a herd of buffalo over a cliff or about starting a range fire to drive the buffalo". And when buffalo were plentiful, often only the choicest parts were eaten, with the rest of the kill being left to rot --Dances with Wolves notwithstanding. " "Primitive man's relationship to nature",Bioscience, volume 21, 1971, page 722.




A favorite Indian device was the ‘jump’, which meant stampeding herds of animalsover a cliff, so that the fall would kill them, described in "Playing God in Yellowstone," by Alston Chase.

"The Vore buffalo jump site in Wyoming...was used five times between 1550 and 1690, and holds the remains of 20,000 buffalo. That means 4,000 or more buffalo were killed each time the jump was used. Other buffalo jumps in the West displaythe remains of as many as 300,000 buffalo. These sites were so numerous, in fact, and held such large deposits of bone, that for many years they were mined as a source of phosphorus for fertilizer!"
Frison, G.C., "Prehistoric Hunters of the High Plains," pp.239-44

Large amounts of meat were left to rot and herds of animals were decimated, and sometimes driven to local extinction. Buffalo and antelope traps killed so many that it took the herds decades to recover.

Kinda like the way Democrats treat unborn human beings.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

The myths of the noble savages living in harmony with nature are all just that.....

Myths.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The myths of the noble savages living in harmony with nature are all just that.....

Myths.

Lies.
The specialty of government school.


. "Chief Seattle’s speech has been quoted and published by environmentalist groups around the world as part of their campaign to persuade us that native peoples know something about protecting the environment which we don’t."
"Wild in Woods: The Myth of the Noble Eco-Savage," by Robert Whelan, p. 43



Here are some quotes from the great chief's speech:


a. " We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man―all belong to the same family.... The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our canoes, and feed our children.... The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.... Man did not weave the web of life; he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."
Center for the Study of the Pacific Northwest


Not to be moved by this would be heartless, or one made of stone. There is no disputing the evangelism of same.



The problem is with the speech as an historical document: it is entirely bogus.



The "speech" is entirely made up propaganda....


" The version of the speech quoted above and so loved and reprinted by environmentalists was written in 1972 by Ted Perry for a film called 'Home,' being produced by the Southern Baptist Radio and Television Commission.

In the film (which I have not seen) the words were apparently read as if they were a letter from Seattle to President Pierce. This mis-attribution and many copies of the text of the Perry speech are available on the web (3).

Perry was writing an entirely fictional speech and did not intend for the words to be attributed to Seattle rather than to the Seattle character in the film, but the film's producers failed to mention Perry's authorship in the credits (7). Thus, the legend was born."
All things are connected

 

[alang1216]

The best thing about this fool is that he doesn't mind folks knowing he's a fool.



"... just ask the buffalo that thrived there."


"....American Indians displayed a similar lack of sensitivity to the "complex web of life". The Sioux, as Daniel Guthrie has noted, "showed no qualms about driving a herd of buffalo over a cliff or about starting a range fire to drive the buffalo". And when buffalo were plentiful, often only the choicest parts were eaten, with the rest of the kill being left to rot --Dances with Wolves notwithstanding. " "Primitive man's relationship to nature",Bioscience, volume 21, 1971, page 722.




A favorite Indian device was the ‘jump’, which meant stampeding herds of animalsover a cliff, so that the fall would kill them, described in "Playing God in Yellowstone," by Alston Chase.

"The Vore buffalo jump site in Wyoming...was used five times between 1550 and 1690, and holds the remains of 20,000 buffalo. That means 4,000 or more buffalo were killed each time the jump was used. Other buffalo jumps in the West displaythe remains of as many as 300,000 buffalo. These sites were so numerous, in fact, and held such large deposits of bone, that for many years they were mined as a source of phosphorus for fertilizer!"
Frison, G.C., "Prehistoric Hunters of the High Plains," pp.239-44

Large amounts of meat were left to rot and herds of animals were decimated, and sometimes driven to local extinction. Buffalo and antelope traps killed so many that it took the herds decades to recover.

Yet for all that there were millions of buffalo when the Europeans arrived to hunt them almost to extinction.

The Western artist George Catlin estimated in 1841 that two to three million bison had been slaughtered for their hides -- sent to Eastern markets -- in the first 30 years of the 19th century alone.

View attachment 572126

Nice painting. You know of course that there were no horses before the Europeans arrived so all the hunting took place on foot.

 

[alang1216]

Except for the people turned into slaves who were on the losing side of tribal wars, of course.
No "individual freedom" there no matter how many times your ignore the subject.

Western society was built on slavery. Later it was based on serfs tied to the land. I'd say the level of freedom was no better in Europe.

In some cases yes but in most cases it was man hunting a species into extinction.

Really? The issue is still being debated in the scientific community so I wonder how you know this?

 

[PoliticalChic]

13. Not only did the settlers not commit genocide, nor steal any Indian land.....but they tried to bring the stone-age savages into the 17th century.
It was the doctrines and religion that they taught the Indians, including capitalism, that led to private property, ownership, and prosperity.


Here, an example:

In his article “Towards a theory of property rights” Harold Demsetz shows by a historic example of the Montagnes Indians the impact of private property. It demonstrates the different behaviours in cases with and without private property rights, how private property solves negative externalities and the role of coordination by changing individuals’ behaviour.

The Montagnes Indians had no restrictions on hunting (=> open-access common property good).

… when the colonists started to acquire beaver furs from the Indians, the value of the beaver increased to such an extent, that the onset of intensification of hunting led to a decline in the beaver population (= negative externality).

Everyone hunted as much as he could and nobody cared about the sustainability of the beaver population. The benefit/revenue of each animal was individual for the hunter, but the costs of the stock decline had the community as a whole (= tragedy of the commons).

The Montagnes Indians successfully solved the problem by the allocation of individual territories on the families (= exactly defined property right), so that individual incentives appeared to plan for the long term under consideration of the beaver population. Consequently the negative externality was remedied and the individuals’ behavior purposely changed by property rights (Demsetz, 1967: 351 – 354).”
Property rights


Changes in knowledge result in changes in production functions, market values, and aspirations. Thanks to those white pioneers.
Did they teach that in government school?????

 

[alang1216]

Changes in knowledge result in changes in production functions, market values, and aspirations. Thanks to those white pioneers.
Did they teach that in government school?????

No, they didn't teach us about socialism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No, they didn't teach us about socialism.

You are a moron, of course....and proudly so.

But I must admit having you as the foil to reveal the abject stupidity, as well as dishonesty, of the typical Democrat voter relieves me of the burden of finding another political punching bag.

You should look at the bright side: some people suffer with a cerebral disease; you’ll never have to worry about that.

 

[alang1216]

You are a moron, of course....and proudly so.

But I must admit having you as the foil to reveal the abject stupidity, as well as dishonesty, of the typical Democrat voter relieves me of the burden of finding another political punching bag.

You should look at the bright side: some people suffer with a cerebral disease; you’ll never have to worry about that.

A moron you can't refute. I wonder where that places you?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A moron you can't refute. I wonder where that places you?

You're serious????


There are the folks who know, and the folks who don’t know, but you belong to the third group: the ones who don’t know, and don’t know they don’t know.

 

[JoeB131]

"....American Indians displayed a similar lack of sensitivity to the "complex web of life". The Sioux, as Daniel Guthrie has noted, "showed no qualms about driving a herd of buffalo over a cliff or about starting a range fire to drive the buffalo". And when buffalo were plentiful, often only the choicest parts were eaten, with the rest of the kill being left to rot --Dances with Wolves notwithstanding. " "Primitive man's relationship to nature",Bioscience, volume 21, 1971, page 722.

Yet it is white people who drove the Buffalo into near extinction in an attempt to starve out the Plains Indians.

 

[alang1216]

You're serious????


There are the folks who know, and the folks who don’t know, but you belong to the third group: the ones who don’t know, and don’t know they don’t know.

Plagiarizing Donald Rumsfeld? Really?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Plagiarizing Donald Rumsfeld? Really?

I never plagiarize.

Post Rumsfeld's quote and admit you lied again.

 

[alang1216]

I never plagiarize.

Post Rumsfeld's quote and admit you lied again.

“There are known knowns — there are things we know we know,” Rumsfeld said in February 2002, when asked for evidence that Saddam Hussein tried to supply weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups. “We also know there are known unknowns — that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Western society was built on slavery.

This seems like a real over statement. The world was built on slavery. So what is the point?
How much "freedom" is there in taking prisoners of war and making slaves out of them?

Later it was based on serfs tied to the land. I'd say the level of freedom was no better in Europe.

Yes. Serfs were tied to their land lords. White tenant farmers worked at the same time as slaves,
slaves in practice if not in name, only a small step up from actual slaves.

Really? The issue is still being debated in the scientific community so I wonder how you know this?

I wonder why you doubt this? What evidence do you have to the contrary?

New Study Says Ancient Humans Hunted Big Mammals To Extinction

As humans spread around the globe, other big mammals vanished. Researchers believe it's because they were tasty.

www.npr.org

I look forward to your apology. I really do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So the British seizing America from the locals was a good thing?

The British did the same to Ireland and India. Was that good too?

How do you think "the locals" got it?

 

[Lesh]

How do you think "the locals" got it?

When Native Americans arrived in the North America there WERE NO people here.

 

[IM2]

Another idiot thread from PC.

Go buy some skin bleach if you want to be white so bad. Every claim you make is debunked by documented fact.

The Indian Removal Act was signed into law by President Andrew Jackson on May 28, 1830, authorizing the president to grant lands west of the Mississippi in exchange for Indian lands within existing state borders. A few tribes went peacefully, but many resisted the relocation policy. During the fall and winter of 1838 and 1839, the Cherokees were forcibly moved west by the United States government. Approximately 4,000 Cherokees died on this forced march, which became known as the "Trail of Tears."

A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875

Now do what you always do after I stick my foot up your eongdeongi,, hangmun, or whater the word is you use for ass, and post those silly questions you copied from Townhal.

 

[IM2]

How do you think "the locals" got it?

Stop making excuses.