Raise the Minimum Wage

[RKMBrown]

Then we have this:
2014 Job Creation Faster in States that Raised the Minimum Wage
The experience of the 13 states that increased their minimum wage on January 1st of this year might provide some guidance for what to expect here in Washington, DC when the city-wideminimum wage increasesto $9.50 on July 1.
At the beginning of 2014,13 statesincreased their minimum wage. Of these 13 states, four passed legislation raising their minimum wage (Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, and Rhode Island). In the other nine, their minimum wage automatically increased in line with inflation at the beginning of the year (Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state).
As CEPR noted inMarchandAprilposts, economists at Goldman Sachs conducted a simple evaluation of the impact of these state minimum-wage increases. GS compared the employment change between December and January in the 13 states where the minimum wage increased with the changes in the remainder of the states. The GS analysis found that the states where the minimum wage went up had faster employment growth than the states where the minimum wage remained at its 2013 level.
When we updated the GS analysis usingadditional employment data from the BLS, we saw the same pattern: employment growth was higher in states where the minimum wage went up. While this kind of simple exercise can't establish causality, it does provide evidence against theoretical negative employment effects of minimum-wage increases.

Your chart does not say what you say it says.

 

[kiwiman127]

It's NOT what I said, it's what Goldman-Sach and EPI said.
BUT, I agree with you. I went back and looked after your comment. The chart doesn't make sense. I hurried myself when I posted that post as I had a meeting to attend.
Here's the irony, it was my review and I got a nice sized raise. One of the comments was that I consistently did concise presentations. It's a good thing they didn't see that post!

 

[thereisnospoon]

The question is not raising the minimum wage the problem is how much to raise it. I don't object to raising it but I do doubling it to $15.00 a hour.

The problem these bleeding heart libs ignore is if the min wage was increased to somewhere in the 10 to 15 dollar range, a lot of other automatic increases for other workers would kick in.
On another matter, this would adversely affect the bottom line of small and medium sized businesses which no doubt would be forced to do one of two things...Increase prices to offset the increased labor cost or reduce the number of workers to offset the expenses.
And finally, the demand for low or no skill workers would be down to near zero as employers would have to justify the higher labor rates by requiring applicants to have the necessary skills requisite to the pay levels and that they require little if any training.
These liberals and union types never think about this stuff. They just say "pay them more"...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Actually raising the minimum wage helps the working Middle Class by raising the floor of wages.

"Increasing the minimum wage, then, will create a new floor, and wage increases will ripple through the wage distribution. Moreover, a policy that can shore up the middle class will also reduce income inequality and serve as a foundation for job creation. The real reason income inequality has been increasing and the middle class has been shrinking is because of stagnating wages. Increasing the minimum wage would go far toward reversing that trend".
How Raising the Minimum Wage Would Boost the Middle Class

It certainly is time that the working Middle Class gets a break. The deck has been stacked against them for over three decades.
As the Middle Class makes up the largest group by far of the consumer class, strengthening the Middle Class is good for the US economy as we do have an economy that is 70% driven by consumer spending. One of the main reasons that last few recessions have dragged on and on is because of the Middle Class consumer has had less and less expendable income thanks to flat wage growth. It's been going on for over three decades. According the Department of Labor, in Real Dollars (constant dollars sans inflation), a worker in a non-supervisory position is making less now than their counterpart in 1979.
Income gap? There's your reason and it's effect on the economy has certainly been negative.

this ignores the one aspect that makes any kind of mandated wage increase impossible to sustain...
That such increases are inflationary. Anytime the money supply is increased either through federal reserve action or acceleration of the economy in the form of rapidly increasing wage levels, prices rise accordingly. Eventually as the rate of inflation levels out, most of those who benefitted in the short term are right back where they started in terms of buying power.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The question is not raising the minimum wage the problem is how much to raise it. I don't object to raising it but I do doubling it to $15.00 a hour.

As long as it was gradual, it would work. To keep up with inflation, the wage would have to be 15.00

Yes over a period of no less than 10 years

 

[thereisnospoon]

As long as the FED is devaluing the currency, this is an idiotic move. Stop the FED from making everything cost more, and this would be an unnecessary move.

I read a report on CNBC,com that the dollar is gainng value vs the BPS and the Euro to the extent that this may cut European Tourism spending in New York City alone by 30%

 

[The Rabbi]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Actually raising the minimum wage helps the working Middle Class by raising the floor of wages.

"Increasing the minimum wage, then, will create a new floor, and wage increases will ripple through the wage distribution. Moreover, a policy that can shore up the middle class will also reduce income inequality and serve as a foundation for job creation. The real reason income inequality has been increasing and the middle class has been shrinking is because of stagnating wages. Increasing the minimum wage would go far toward reversing that trend".
How Raising the Minimum Wage Would Boost the Middle Class

It certainly is time that the working Middle Class gets a break. The deck has been stacked against them for over three decades.
As the Middle Class makes up the largest group by far of the consumer class, strengthening the Middle Class is good for the US economy as we do have an economy that is 70% driven by consumer spending. One of the main reasons that last few recessions have dragged on and on is because of the Middle Class consumer has had less and less expendable income thanks to flat wage growth. It's been going on for over three decades. According the Department of Labor, in Real Dollars (constant dollars sans inflation), a worker in a non-supervisory position is making less now than their counterpart in 1979.
Income gap? There's your reason and it's effect on the economy has certainly been negative.

this ignores the one aspect that makes any kind of mandated wage increase impossible to sustain...
That such increases are inflationary. Anytime the money supply is increased either through federal reserve action or acceleration of the economy in the form of rapidly increasing wage levels, prices rise accordingly. Eventually as the rate of inflation levels out, most of those who benefitted in the short term are right back where they started in terms of buying power.

I dont believe thats really correct.
First off, min wage affects a relatively small number of workers. Yes, a rise will also affect others whose base wage is tied to the min wage but I dont know how pervasive that is.
Second, it will not increase the money supply. The money paid out in extra wages will have to come from somewhere else. Cuts will be made either in benefits to workers, or for R&D or in some other area to balance out higher costs with no resulting increase in sales or producitivity.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Bullshit. How completely ridiculous!

Not ridiculous. It is FACT.....Despite the increases in the min wage poverty has increased.
And more people than ever have found their way to social programs.
The problem is not the min wage. The problem is that the state and federal welfare giveaway systems have made not working too comfortable.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

But it sure does jack the prices up on food, huh?

Gasoline prices raise the price of food more than any other thing out there, year after year after year...once every 10 years minimum wage hike does jack to the price of food compared to fuel prices....

We can talk about gas prices all damn day if you want. Its a totally separate thread topic though.

These things are in no way mutually exclusive. Energy prices drive consumer prices. That's pretty basic stuff.

 

[The Rabbi]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Bullshit. How completely ridiculous!

Not ridiculous. It is FACT.....Despite the increases in the min wage poverty has increased.
And more people than ever have found their way to social programs.
The problem is not the min wage. The problem is that the state and federal welfare giveaway systems have made not working too comfortable.

The min wage keeps many people from entering the job market to start with. Higher min wage, fewer people entering. Ergo more poverty.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Actually raising the minimum wage helps the working Middle Class by raising the floor of wages.

"Increasing the minimum wage, then, will create a new floor, and wage increases will ripple through the wage distribution. Moreover, a policy that can shore up the middle class will also reduce income inequality and serve as a foundation for job creation. The real reason income inequality has been increasing and the middle class has been shrinking is because of stagnating wages. Increasing the minimum wage would go far toward reversing that trend".
How Raising the Minimum Wage Would Boost the Middle Class

It certainly is time that the working Middle Class gets a break. The deck has been stacked against them for over three decades.
As the Middle Class makes up the largest group by far of the consumer class, strengthening the Middle Class is good for the US economy as we do have an economy that is 70% driven by consumer spending. One of the main reasons that last few recessions have dragged on and on is because of the Middle Class consumer has had less and less expendable income thanks to flat wage growth. It's been going on for over three decades. According the Department of Labor, in Real Dollars (constant dollars sans inflation), a worker in a non-supervisory position is making less now than their counterpart in 1979.
Income gap? There's your reason and it's effect on the economy has certainly been negative.

this ignores the one aspect that makes any kind of mandated wage increase impossible to sustain...
That such increases are inflationary. Anytime the money supply is increased either through federal reserve action or acceleration of the economy in the form of rapidly increasing wage levels, prices rise accordingly. Eventually as the rate of inflation levels out, most of those who benefitted in the short term are right back where they started in terms of buying power.

I dont believe thats really correct.
First off, min wage affects a relatively small number of workers. Yes, a rise will also affect others whose base wage is tied to the min wage but I dont know how pervasive that is.
Second, it will not increase the money supply. The money paid out in extra wages will have to come from somewhere else. Cuts will be made either in benefits to workers, or for R&D or in some other area to balance out higher costs with no resulting increase in sales or producitivity.

Don't forget now that wages of other workers, especially unionized workers are indexed to the minimum wage. So for example, a warehouse worker making is $11 per hour which is $3.75 above the min wage and the min wage is increased to say $10 per hour, the employer is not going to have very many warehouse workers who are happy with making just above min wage when at one time they were about 30% above.
Therefore the employer will have to increase all of his other hourly people proportionately.
This is especially true with those working under union contracts. Their wages are indexed to the min wage as well. And of course wages for those workers are mandated by the contract.
In the past, when wages have risen due to low unemployment and other factors, the result is an economy that heats up which eventually results in inflation.

 

[SixFoot]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

But it sure does jack the prices up on food, huh?

Gasoline prices raise the price of food more than any other thing out there, year after year after year...once every 10 years minimum wage hike does jack to the price of food compared to fuel prices....

We can talk about gas prices all damn day if you want. Its a totally separate thread topic though.

These things are in no way mutually exclusive. Energy prices drive consumer prices. That's pretty basic stuff.

I was working retail when minimum wage went up to $7.25 an hour. Food prices went up. Not so much when gas prices went up to over $4/gal around the same time frame.

I was also making $7.20 an hour at the time ($2.05 more than min wage) and got a 5 cent raise to the bottom of the earnings barrel. Two years of work to earn minimum wage once again. It was awesome. All I did was get poorer.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Bullshit. How completely ridiculous!

If it's completely ridiculous bullshit you should certainly have no problem providing evidence to the contrary.

Supporters argue that a higher minimum wage is an effective anti-poverty tool. If businesses must pay their low-wage employees more, then those workers should earn more and fewer of them should live in poverty. Common sense says a higher minimum wage should fight poverty.

The facts, however, show otherwise. Many economists have examined the evidence and come to the surprising conclusion that the minimum wage does not reduce poverty. Ohio University economists Richard Vedder and Lowell Gallaway examined the effect that increases in the minimum wage had on the overall poverty rate in the United States and on the poverty rates for groups like minorities and teenagers that might especially benefit from higher minimum wages.[1] They found that the minimum wage had no statistically detectable effect on poverty rates.

[1] See Richard K. Vedder and Lowell E. Gallaway, "Does the Minimum Wage Reduce Poverty?" Employment Policies Institute, June 2001, at www.epionline.org/studies/vedder_06-2001.pdf(December 28, 2006).

Raising the Minimum Wage Will Not Reduce Poverty

You need evidence? Really? Okay, let's say you get a one week pay check that amounts to $240, or you could get a pay check that amounts to $500 for the week. Which pay check do you think will keep you out of poverty?

Well that was easy. LOL!

Its not that simple. And to think that a $500 per week paycheck should be the minimum is ABSURD..
Tell ya what.....Let's see you walk the walk.....Open your own business. Lets say a convenience store or a retail shop of any kind. Then pay your employees $15 per hour.
Don't adjust your prices according to your labor costs. See how long your business lasts.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Let's break it down...when you raise the minimum wage, here's what could happen:
A. Unemployment could go up or down or stay the same.
B. Employment could go up or down or stay the same.
C. Prices could go up or down or stay the same.
D Any combination of A, B, and C.

Anyone who tells you that anything for sure will happen is talking out of their ass.
Well,OK...average hourly wages will go up. Average weekly wages could go up, down or stay the same.

and this is precisely why reactionary federal policies invariably result in economic disaster.
Doing stuff and hoping a bad outcome will not be the result.

 

[thereisnospoon]

No, it doesn't. It hurts the middle class. The only people who get a wage bump when the minimum wage is raised are the people who were making less than the new minimum wage. The rest of us don't get the same increase, but we do pay the higher costs of goods and services as a result of the increase.

Didn't read the link, huh? And to top it off, we get the every ever favorite "but, but prices will go up!" Why not do some research, Historical facts don't back you up at all.
I bet a huge majority of those who don't want to see the Minimum Wage raised would benefit from raising it, via the ripple effect that has happened, every single time. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot.
Oh and over 70% of the public wants to see the Minimum Wage raised, but fuck them too, your masters have spoken.

70% of WHAT public? Those 110 people who were stupid enough to not know how to get off the phone and/or felt obligated to answer some dopey survey?
You mean those same 1100 people who were most likely out of work and were thrilled to hear their chances at making fifteen bucks an hour just to show up and clock in and out?
Gee I wonder if anyone who answered the questions in these polls actually OWNS a small business.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And that's why wage growth has been flat for three decades.
Take a look at historical wages (in Real Dollars) for non-supervisory workers. Productivity has been on a steady rise but not wages. These numbers are based on the Department of Labor who measures wage growth in Real Dollars as do economists, no matter what political stripe.

Wage growth has been flat because the government has been determining the compensation that businesses should pay?

No, businesses have. The Minimum Wage is so far behind the inflation rate it isn't funny. (Well to some it is)[/QUOTE]
Then open your own business and pay what you deem appropriate. If you can ignore market forces, pay people above the market rate wage and be a successful business, have at it.
Until you own a business you have no say in the matter because you have no skin in the game.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I haven't made the minimum wage since I was 16 years old. If you're an adult making the minimum wage you're a fucking loser. Simple as that.

or you are retired and don't give a shit. You just want a couple extra walkin around bucks

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the minimum wage historically has done absolutely nothing to help the poor or raise people out of poverty.

Bullshit. How completely ridiculous!

If it's completely ridiculous bullshit you should certainly have no problem providing evidence to the contrary.

Supporters argue that a higher minimum wage is an effective anti-poverty tool. If businesses must pay their low-wage employees more, then those workers should earn more and fewer of them should live in poverty. Common sense says a higher minimum wage should fight poverty.

The facts, however, show otherwise. Many economists have examined the evidence and come to the surprising conclusion that the minimum wage does not reduce poverty. Ohio University economists Richard Vedder and Lowell Gallaway examined the effect that increases in the minimum wage had on the overall poverty rate in the United States and on the poverty rates for groups like minorities and teenagers that might especially benefit from higher minimum wages.[1] They found that the minimum wage had no statistically detectable effect on poverty rates.

[1] See Richard K. Vedder and Lowell E. Gallaway, "Does the Minimum Wage Reduce Poverty?" Employment Policies Institute, June 2001, at www.epionline.org/studies/vedder_06-2001.pdf(December 28, 2006).

Raising the Minimum Wage Will Not Reduce Poverty

You need evidence? Really? Okay, let's say you get a one week pay check that amounts to $240, or you could get a pay check that amounts to $500 for the week. Which pay check do you think will keep you out of poverty?

Well that was easy. LOL!

Perfect.
Except that isnt the choice. The choice is between a paycheck for 240/week and no paycheck at all because your job got eliminated.
Now which one is going to keep you out of poverty?
That was easy!

Right, that's the only solution....

the natural gas or oil bill goes up, you fire your worker who you need in order to have any business at all....

The electric bill goes up and you fire your worker who your business needs to operate...

fuel prices go up, shipping goes up...so you fire your worker


yeah yeah, I got it....

What's your point?
Businesses have to make decisions based on costs all the time.
The bottom line is the business owner is going to do whatever he or she has to do to protect their investment.
Get this straight the business owner is taking ALL of the risk. HIS money.
The worker is free to go explore other opportunities any time he or she wishes. If the business at which that person is employed fails, he or she fills up a cardboard box and moves on with life. The business owner might lose his house.
The business that cuts back on employees obviously does not NEED those people to stay in business.
Remember , labor is a commodity. And if a commodity becomes too costly....one stops buying the commodity.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it's be $10.86/hour now.

Only reason it's being kept down is most minimum wage earners are ethinic minorities and we can't have more affluent ******* and spics moving in to white neighborhoods. Keep them in the po' side of town where they belong. Not with us good white folk.

That's the anti-raise arguement, they just don't say it out loud but I can read minds.

Did you get that by use of an inflation calculator?

 

[the_human_being]

Since it's illegal to buy votes, the next best way is give people a raise.

28 million working Americans would benefit. 28 million votes swinging for whoever got them that raise...I'm not a political operative but this doesn't sound very complicated to me.

Wouldn't it be easier just to go get a job that paid more? That's what I always did.