Question

[Papageorgio]

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

 

[OldLady]

Simple solution to get a viable 3rd party option: tiered voting.

My first choice for President is _________.
If my first choice is eliminated, then my second choice for President is ________.

Unfortunately, we can hardly manage a regular voting system without an abundance of issues. Oh well.

Maine is using it now because we often have a strong Independent candidate. When there are three competing "candidates," a binary system doesn't work. However, the tiered system doesn't create a third party--the third party created the need for the ranked choice voting.

 

[HappyJoy]

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

 

[OldLady]

I think a viable 3rd party would solve a lot of issues.

viable!

?

Show me any success with any party other than R or D.
99% of people don't even know what their platforms are.

I agree that they've been ineffective and unsuccessful.

Hence why I specified viable 3rd party.

It's interesting to me how some countries elect candidates from several parties and then they form coalitions. Considering that both the R's and the D's now have split messages within their own parties, thanks to extremes on both ends, there could easily without any thought, be four at least. I don't know anything about how those systems work, but it makes sense to me. People are afraid to vote for a third party right now because it is always a "wasted" vote, whether it is a righteous thing to do or not. In our sytem, either the R's or the D's will win, and whichever one you dislike the most has a better chance of winning if you give your vote to anyone but the other major party.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Simple solution to get a viable 3rd party option: tiered voting.

My first choice for President is _________.
If my first choice is eliminated, then my second choice for President is ________.

Unfortunately, we can hardly manage a regular voting system without an abundance of issues. Oh well.

Maine is using it now because we often have a strong Independent candidate. When there are three competing "candidates," a binary system doesn't work. However, the tiered system doesn't create a third party--the third party created the need for the ranked choice voting.

I think the tiered system would create the third party.

Plenty of people aren't happy with their options but don't want to throw away their vote either. Take 2016 for example.

I didn't like Hillary Clinton and I hated Donald Trump. I voted for Hillary Clinton because I was voting against Donald Trump. If I had a 3rd option that wouldn't waste my vote against Trump, I very easily could have gone that route.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I think a viable 3rd party would solve a lot of issues.

viable!

?

Show me any success with any party other than R or D.
99% of people don't even know what their platforms are.

I agree that they've been ineffective and unsuccessful.

Hence why I specified viable 3rd party.

It's interesting to me how some countries elect candidates from several parties and then they form coalitions. Considering that both the R's and the D's now have split messages within their own parties, thanks to extremes on both ends, there could easily without any thought, be four at least. I don't know anything about how those systems work, but it makes sense to me. People are afraid to vote for a third party right now because it is always a "wasted" vote, whether it is a righteous thing to do or not. In our sytem, either the R's or the D's will win, and whichever one you dislike the most has a better chance of winning if you give your vote to anyone but the other major party.

Yea exactly. You vote for the candidate you dislike least.

Some people choose to vote 3rd party for this reason, knowing that their candidate can't win. I know where they're coming from but I can't do that. It just seems wasteful to me.

A tiered system would eliminate that. You would actually get to vote for who you LIKE without the consequence of wasting your vote. It would help get better people in office in my opinion.

 

[OldLady]

Trump is a Republican. That's not a 3rd party.

Actually he is a moderate democrat. He only became magically "Republican" for the 2016 election.

If I had a 3rd option that wouldn't waste my vote against Trump,

I still don't see how ranked choice voting creates that third option. It would strengthen that third option, agreed. All ranked choice voting does is give the vote of the one who got the least to the voter's second choice. It's inherent that there have to be at least three candidates in order for ranked choice voting to make sense.

 

[anynameyouwish]

I’m hoping for some real meaningful dialogue in this thread (perhaps I’m being naive). I’m completely dissatisfied with both the Republican and Democrat parties so I guess I would consider myself an independent. This has left me feeling out on an island politically.

So anyway as I look at myself wanting a legitimate 3rd party this thought has crossed my mind.

What if as long as we have a partisan two-party system there never can be racial reconciliation? Because it doesn’t really benefit either side and then prevents coalitions around a similar issue.

For example African-Americans for the past 50-60 years have traditionally voted for the Democratic Party. So it doesnt really benefit the Democrats for there to be real racial reconciliation because they wouldn’t be able to point to the GOP as racist and keep the loyalty of the black vote.

Then as a Republican if you take up the cause of racial reconciliation you get screamed at for being a leftist socialist, anti-police, and a marxists.

I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation.

" I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation. "


I would think so.

most people are moderates anyway

most of us cringe when we hear left wingers and right wingers engage in their deranged and hateful rhetoric.

 

[Indeependent]

I think a viable 3rd party would solve a lot of issues.

viable!

?

Show me any success with any party other than R or D.
99% of people don't even know what their platforms are.

I agree that they've been ineffective and unsuccessful.

Hence why I specified viable 3rd party.

It's interesting to me how some countries elect candidates from several parties and then they form coalitions. Considering that both the R's and the D's now have split messages within their own parties, thanks to extremes on both ends, there could easily without any thought, be four at least. I don't know anything about how those systems work, but it makes sense to me. People are afraid to vote for a third party right now because it is always a "wasted" vote, whether it is a righteous thing to do or not. In our sytem, either the R's or the D's will win, and whichever one you dislike the most has a better chance of winning if you give your vote to anyone but the other major party.

Those coalitions are equally chaotic to what we have.
The word Coalition defines a group of non-cooperative people/groups "working" together.

 

[OldLady]

I’m hoping for some real meaningful dialogue in this thread (perhaps I’m being naive). I’m completely dissatisfied with both the Republican and Democrat parties so I guess I would consider myself an independent. This has left me feeling out on an island politically.

So anyway as I look at myself wanting a legitimate 3rd party this thought has crossed my mind.

What if as long as we have a partisan two-party system there never can be racial reconciliation? Because it doesn’t really benefit either side and then prevents coalitions around a similar issue.

For example African-Americans for the past 50-60 years have traditionally voted for the Democratic Party. So it doesnt really benefit the Democrats for there to be real racial reconciliation because they wouldn’t be able to point to the GOP as racist and keep the loyalty of the black vote.

Then as a Republican if you take up the cause of racial reconciliation you get screamed at for being a leftist socialist, anti-police, and a marxists.

I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation.

" I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation. "


I would think so.

most people are moderates anyway

most of us cringe when we hear left wingers and right wingers engage in their deranged and hateful rhetoric.

I think we already have two basically moderate parties; what needs to happen is that the progressives and the regressives form their own parties and let the sensible folks stay where they are.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I still don't see how ranked choice voting creates that third option. It would strengthen that third option, agreed. All ranked choice voting does is give the vote of the one who got the least to the voter's second choice. It's inherent that there have to be at least three candidates in order for ranked choice voting to make sense.

Maybe I misunderstood you. I think we're saying the same thing, mostly.

You're right - it wouldn't create the 3rd party. It would just make it a viable option for people who aren't crazy about their two options.

 

[anynameyouwish]

I’m hoping for some real meaningful dialogue in this thread (perhaps I’m being naive). I’m completely dissatisfied with both the Republican and Democrat parties so I guess I would consider myself an independent. This has left me feeling out on an island politically.

So anyway as I look at myself wanting a legitimate 3rd party this thought has crossed my mind.

What if as long as we have a partisan two-party system there never can be racial reconciliation? Because it doesn’t really benefit either side and then prevents coalitions around a similar issue.

For example African-Americans for the past 50-60 years have traditionally voted for the Democratic Party. So it doesnt really benefit the Democrats for there to be real racial reconciliation because they wouldn’t be able to point to the GOP as racist and keep the loyalty of the black vote.

Then as a Republican if you take up the cause of racial reconciliation you get screamed at for being a leftist socialist, anti-police, and a marxists.

I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation.

I set up at a couple of antique flea markets

flea markets are a microcosm of the country;

dealers and customers are;
gay, straight, white, black, democrat, republican, independent, liberal, conservative, foreign, domestic....


one of my best friends who show up every week has a bit of a foreign accent...

don't know where he came from

nice guy!

always enjoy it when he shows up and we chat

I know many of the dealers, from all political perspectives....and we all get along fine...

there's no arguing
no fighting

it can be done!

 

[Papageorgio]

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

You brought up I shouldn’t vote for Trump, then said I voted libertarian, so apparently you think it is your concern.

My vote and anyone else that votes 3rd Party does impact the election. At least I don’t vote for the lesser of two evils. Lol!

 

[Shelzin]

You don't know where your best friend is from?

 

[Papageorgio]

I’m hoping for some real meaningful dialogue in this thread (perhaps I’m being naive). I’m completely dissatisfied with both the Republican and Democrat parties so I guess I would consider myself an independent. This has left me feeling out on an island politically.

So anyway as I look at myself wanting a legitimate 3rd party this thought has crossed my mind.

What if as long as we have a partisan two-party system there never can be racial reconciliation? Because it doesn’t really benefit either side and then prevents coalitions around a similar issue.

For example African-Americans for the past 50-60 years have traditionally voted for the Democratic Party. So it doesnt really benefit the Democrats for there to be real racial reconciliation because they wouldn’t be able to point to the GOP as racist and keep the loyalty of the black vote.

Then as a Republican if you take up the cause of racial reconciliation you get screamed at for being a leftist socialist, anti-police, and a marxists.

I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation.

" I just wonder if we had a real 3rd moderate party if it would help bring real racial reconciliation. "


I would think so.

most people are moderates anyway

most of us cringe when we hear left wingers and right wingers engage in their deranged and hateful rhetoric.

I think we already have two basically moderate parties; what needs to happen is that the progressives and the regressives form their own parties and let the sensible folks stay where they are.

Regressives are those that are left wing people that claim to be Progressive however are not in thought. There are Progressives, Conservatives, moderates and many who cover all three sides.

 

[HappyJoy]

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

You brought up I shouldn’t vote for Trump, then said I voted libertarian, so apparently you think it is your concern.

My vote and anyone else that votes 3rd Party does impact the election. At least I don’t vote for the lesser of two evils. Lol!

It's a political forum, we tend to talk about this shit.

 

[georgephillip]

For example African-Americans for the past 50-60 years have traditionally voted for the Democratic Party. So it doesnt really benefit the Democrats for there to be real racial reconciliation because they wouldn’t be able to point to the GOP as racist and keep the loyalty of the black vote.

There's at least one more reason why African-Americans have supported Democrats over the last half-century, and that's because Nixon's Southern Strategy produced a new Republican base that was composed of 30% of white bigots as Kevin Phillips pointed out 54 years ago:

Nixon's Southern strategy

"'...From now on, the Re publicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 per cent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that . . . but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Dem ocrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and be come Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrange ment with the local Demo crats.'"

If Trump loses big next November, it's possible the GOP will come apart at the seams, and, perhaps, the two-party charade will end?

 

[Papageorgio]

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

The Democratic party has actual black people in it. Like a lot. The Democratic Party is actually the melting pot that America is supposed to be, no tokenism needed. GOP, not so much.

The Democrats are too far left and the Republicans are too far right. Neither party really cares for working class Americans nor do they care about minorities. I find them totally self serving and all about power.

Most of America isn’t served by either party.

Great, then don't vote for either. Trump certainly doesn't care about you.

I didn’t and I won’t. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils, that is really stupid. I’m for demanding better candidates and not being a sheeple. I think about who would best serve our country.

If you've ever voted for the Libertarian candidate then trust me, you've compromised. Not exactly a stellar bunch of candidates.

I didn’t the last three election cycles, not that my vote is your business. Anybody that voted third party is a lot more honest about caring for this country than a D or an R.

No they're not. They literally have zero impact.

And if who you vote for is not of my concern then stop telling me who you vote or don't vote for.

You brought up I shouldn’t vote for Trump, then said I voted libertarian, so apparently you think it is your concern.

My vote and anyone else that votes 3rd Party does impact the election. At least I don’t vote for the lesser of two evils. Lol!

It's a political forum, we tend to talk about this shit.

You’re an idiot, thanks for letting all of know.