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Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power

Mac1958

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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.

CrusaderFrank

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Grumblenuts

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DUDE!!! It may be cheapest during 7 to 9 hours of full solar insolation, but it aint gonna produce a whit at night or when the sun is low on the horizon or in wintry/rainy areas or high latitudes.

Doesn't include the cost of the OTHER GENERATOR that has to fill those gaps. OR the price of the land you sacrifice to install it on. Or all the VERY COSTLY and environmentally dangerous brain farts about batteries backing up solar.

Solar is a PEAKING generator to reduce the peak demand that USUALLY occurs about mid-day. Not an "alternative". And if the POLITICAL mental midgets designing this hell shift the entire TRANSPORT FLEET to the grid by MANDATES -- there WONT BE A predictable daily peak demand unless you outlaw charging vehicles when the solar fields are not pumping.
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Don't have a cow.. Let's have a think:
 

jc456

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Don't have a cow.. Let's have a think:
how much to make them, install them, run the lines and maintain them, battery back up as well, how much?
 

flacaltenn

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Don't have a cow.. Let's have a think:

Oh I love "a think" but it makes me nappy. Especially that guy who seems to end up in more posts in this enviro forum than most GW scientists.

There's a lot of false trade-offs that he offers.. NEVER a choice between "GDP and the destruction of the Earth" The choice is between making ENERGY PLENTIFUL AND CHEAP -- versus RARE and EXPENSIVE. That way you COULD design a system that DOESN'T lower GDP AND meets the PRIMARY GOAL of an advanced industrial nation that requires plentiful and cheap energy. But the deluded idea that wind and solar IS the plan -- is really a non-starter and YET -- That's where 100s of $Billions of your tax bucks just went.

MAKING THAT "Cheap and Plentiful" is gonna be harder and orders of magnitude more expensive than the moon landing. MUCH HARDER.

Like Hansen and the other Enviro scientists that teamed up to MAKE this point, when you play out the Rube Goldberg bandaids that you NEED to ATTEMPT use wind and solar for fossil fuel replacement -- WITHOUT A NUCLEAR backbone -- you WILL rape and pillage the Earth and MAYBE start wars over the rare components that have to be mined to create a perpetual TOXIC waste stream of dead or recycled batteries.

That's where you LOSE real environmentalists like me and Hansen and his buds.
 

Orangecat

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I'm happy with whatever energy costs the least.
 

Grumblenuts

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a system that DOESN'T lower GDP AND meets the PRIMARY GOAL of an advanced industrial nation that requires plentiful and cheap energy. But the deluded idea that wind and solar IS the plan -- is really a non-starter and YET -- That's where 100s of $Billions of your tax bucks just went.

MAKING THAT "Cheap and Plentiful" is gonna be harder and orders of magnitude more expensive than the moon landing. MUCH HARDER.
I had 100s of $Billions of tax bucks? Damn skippy, why'd no one ever tell me?

If you calm down I'll let you in on a little secret.. You listening? Ya Ready?
Nukes remain prohibitively expensive. "Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power"
 
OP
abu afak

abu afak

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BTW -- in the course of writing that article about the battery Armageddon the politicos are designing -- I discovered that the Cali State legislature gave their SUPER neat battery storage facility COVER by allowing them NOT TO PUBLICLY DISCLOSE COST or contract information until YEARS after the facility opens.

If "renewables" are gonna save us and SOME folks think "they are so cheap -- that NOBODY can whine" -- WHY is the leading "renewable" state HIDING COSTS??????
Why was King Oil Texas the largest adder of Renewables last year.. Tripling what California put into service?
You know it must be because of Gov Abbott's subsidies.
Yeah, that's it!
In fact, Abbott signed a bill protecting NG from adding-Renewables-only municipalities.

You still think warming stopped in 2008?

YOU write F****** articles?
Did SunsetTommy get you a spot on WTFUWT?
You CLOWN!
`
 
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jc456

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Toddsterpatriot

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If you calm down I'll let you in on a little secret.. You listening? Ya Ready?
Nukes remain prohibitively expensive. "Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power"

But it's for the children!
To save the planet!!
How many new nuke plants should we build?
Or is reliable power no longer needed?
 

jc456

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Why was King Oil Texas the largest adder of Renewables last year.. Tripling what California put into service?
You know it must be because of Gov Abbott's subsidies.
Yeah, that's it!
In fact, Abbott signed a bill protecting NG from adding-Renewables-only municipalities.

You still think warming stopped in 2008?

YOU write F****** articles?
Did SunsetTommy get you a spot on WTFUWT?
You CLOWN!
`
I want you to show us it was cheaper.
 

jc456

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I had 100s of $Billions of tax bucks? Damn skippy, why'd no one ever tell me?

If you calm down I'll let you in on a little secret.. You listening? Ya Ready?
Nukes remain prohibitively expensive. "Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power"
I just want you to say how it's cheaper and as reliable?
 

flacaltenn

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I had 100s of $Billions of tax bucks? Damn skippy, why'd no one ever tell me?

If you calm down I'll let you in on a little secret.. You listening? Ya Ready?
Nukes remain prohibitively expensive. "Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power"

The NEW generation nukes are very cost effective. SOME on a "medium" scale can be put into ground and lightly monitored for 12 or 16 years and then recycled. They no longer LOOK like coal plants with cooling stacks because they dont have to be in the image of a big power plant.

The ones we built in 60s and 70s are still churning out power. With the average home consuming just about 0.8 OZ of nuclear fuel per year -- about a AA battery size. But the NEW 3rd and 4th gen plants will run with much less employees and much less downtime for re-fueling. And waste in a form that much more easily recycled.

Anything that's advertised as "free" -- such as sun power and wind power -- come with disappointment when you eval them.
 

Blues Man

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The NEW generation nukes are very cost effective. SOME on a "medium" scale can be put into ground and lightly monitored for 12 or 16 years and then recycled. They no longer LOOK like coal plants with cooling stacks because they dont have to be in the image of a big power plant.

The ones we built in 60s and 70s are still churning out power. With the average home consuming just about 0.8 OZ of nuclear fuel per year -- about a AA battery size. But the NEW 3rd and 4th gen plants will run with much less employees and much less downtime for re-fueling. And waste in a form that much more easily recycled.

Anything that's advertised as "free" -- such as sun power and wind power -- come with disappointment when you eval them.
We can just repurpose all the coal and NG plants we have now and use smaller modular molten salt reactors in series .
 

flacaltenn

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We can just repurpose all the coal and NG plants we have now and use smaller modular molten salt reactors in series .

Coal for certain. NGas is another story. If we over-build wind and solar -- you need a generator that can be brought up and down in less than 15 minutes without wasting fuel. And nat gas turbines can do that.

China is a decade ahead of us on Small Modular Reactors (SMR) and are already fielding them. You could easily power a steel factory or a mid-size town that requires little monitoring and maintenance.

 

Grumblenuts

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Now that you've heard all that happy talk jive, here's a little reminder of the cold reality:
Will nuclear power ever generate enough revenue to cover its costs? Historical data covering capital, fuel, operations, maintenance, decommissioning, and waste disposal costs, and generation and revenue figures during the period 1953 through 1991 were analyzed and compared. The analysis shows that nuclear power is currently nowhere near meeting its costs. Scenarios projecting future costs and revenues were developed. Analysis of these projections suggests that even under the most optimistic conditions (where costs are cut considerably and revenues climb substantially), the current generation of the nuclear option over its lifetime may be best be economically marginal.
"Too cheap to meter!"
It is generally assumed that Strauss’ forecast was wrong and that nuclear power has never become “too cheap to meter.” But looking at it from a
happy talk perspective.. sure, the entire industry can just keep repeating that lie till the cows come home.. AND BEYOND!.. People just want to believe it so very badly. Go ahead, now. Have that cow!
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Now that you've heard all that happy talk jive, here's a little reminder of the cold reality:

"Too cheap to meter!"

happy talk perspective.. sure, the entire industry can just keep repeating that lie till the cows come home.. AND BEYOND!.. People just want to believe it so very badly. Go ahead, now. Have that cow!

"Too cheap to meter!"

Sounds a little bit like, "Look at all the free wind and solar energy"
 

Grumblenuts

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"Too cheap to meter!"

Sounds a little bit like, "Look at all the free wind and solar energy"
Sounds a lot like you want people to believe you've somehow been billed for your wind and/or sunlight usage. Actually, I pay a flat rate for what I generate with my Tesla panels. Still no idea whose weird idea that was? I'll begin to care the moment I'm paying more than I would be otherwise.
I've been paying less and less.. :spinner:
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Sounds a lot like you want people to believe you've somehow been billed for your wind and/or sunlight usage. Actually, I pay a flat rate for what I generate with my Tesla panels. Still no idea whose weird idea that was? I'll begin to care the moment I'm paying more than I would be otherwise.
I've been paying less and less.. :spinner:

Why would you be billed for wind or solar? Free fuel, right?
That's the most important thing.

I've been paying less and less..

Germany and California too, eh?
 

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