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Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power

jc456

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Sounds a lot like you want people to believe you've somehow been billed for your wind and/or sunlight usage. Actually, I pay a flat rate for what I generate with my Tesla panels. Still no idea whose weird idea that was? I'll begin to care the moment I'm paying more than I would be otherwise.
I've been paying less and less.. :spinner:
what did you spend for the panels and batteries including installation?
 

flacaltenn

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Sounds a lot like you want people to believe you've somehow been billed for your wind and/or sunlight usage. Actually, I pay a flat rate for what I generate with my Tesla panels. Still no idea whose weird idea that was? I'll begin to care the moment I'm paying more than I would be otherwise.
I've been paying less and less.. :spinner:

THere's a big diff in economics and decisions between YOU going into the "energy biz" by putting up PV solar panels on your HOUSE and an incompetent government CLAIMING that "alternatives" can REPLACE fossil fuel totally on the grid. YOUR individual outcome might be slightly above break even since the government will SCREW you gradually with higher NIGHTTIME electricity prices, but keep the payments level for what you "OVER" generate during the day and put back on the grid -- if anything.

And like an energy company -- you're taking some risk. The risk of hail/storm damage, insurance to cover that -- having to remove and reinstall if roof needs repair, ect. IN MANY PLACES -- you can no longer GET insurance for those panels on your home.
 

flacaltenn

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Why was King Oil Texas the largest adder of Renewables last year.. Tripling what California put into service?
You know it must be because of Gov Abbott's subsidies.

Simple math. Energy DEMAND has plateaued in recent years. There's only a need to replace "aged-out" plants. So there's no OVERALL big building of ADDITIONAL capacity.

So by the theory of fractions -- being the LARGEST addition to a VERY SMALL NUMBER -- is only a factoid you'd read on some solar/wind fanboy site.

And it's not the state of Texas. COmpanies from EVERYWHERE are building them in Texas because wind still has REALLY LARGE SUBSIDIES.


Lower natural gas prices in 2019 led to declines in wholesale electricity prices in most areas of the country. This was not the case in Texas, where day-ahead, around-the-clock wholesale electricity prices averaged $38 per megawatt-hour (MWh), up 13% from their 2018 average.

Download Report PDF
The root cause of this cost increase were the massive distortions in Texas’ wholesale electricity market caused by renewable energy subsidies. Since 2006, wind- and solar-power generators in Texas have received about $19.4 billion in subsidies from federal, state, and local governments. In 2019, renewable subsidies totaled almost $2.4 billion.

Not only did Texans have to pay $3.1 billion for the electricity generated from renewable sources last year, they had to cover most of the cost of $2.4 billion in renewable energy subsidies that generators received. That equals about $67.9 per MWh for the 81.1 million MWhs generated by wind and solar generators last year. These costs show up on tax bills as well as electricity bills.

Key Points
Texas wholesale electricity prices jumped 13% in 2019, compared to drops from 15% to 30% in other markets

Retail electric prices in Texas increased by 6.8% last year, more than the 1.3% increase in U.S. retail prices

Renewable energy subsides in Texas last year cost $2.4 billion, and have totaled $19.4 billion since 2006

Wind and solar generation have increased this year by 5,432,001 MWh. Natural gas, which has increased only 2,352,049, and coal has decreased by 7,351,523 Meh


The all-in cost of wind and solar generation in Texas was $67.9 per MWh

------------------------------------------------


Why NOT take those subsidies? Taxpayers are footing the bill. And these subsidies aren't the BIGGEST "HIDDEN" cost of wind and solar. THAT would be the FACT that for EVERY MWatt of either that you BUILD -- You need to BUILD ANOTHER GENERATION to back that up -- when the "sun dont shine or the wind dont blow". And as AN INVESTOR in a Texas wind boom -- THAT is not YOUR problem at all. It's somebody else's.
 
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abu afak

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Simple math. Energy DEMAND has plateaued in recent years. There's only a need to replace "aged-out" plants. So there's no OVERALL big building of ADDITIONAL capacity.

So by the theory of fractions -- being the LARGEST addition to a VERY SMALL NUMBER -- is only a factoid you'd read on some solar/wind fanboy site.
I don't agree, but for arguments sake.. who cares?
The much huger issue you just unwittingly admitted.
All these clowns incl you, say it will cost, ie, "$100 Trillion to replace."
It costs NOTHING as they are 'replacing' something that has it's own cost to rebuild, and it is less efficient and ls polluting. And in fact that is happening at many sites. Coal plants replaced.


And it's not the state of Texas. COmpanies from EVERYWHERE are building them in Texas because wind still has REALLY LARGE SUBSIDIES.


Lower natural gas prices in 2019 led to declines in wholesale electricity prices in most areas of the country. This was not the case in Texas, where day-ahead, around-the-clock wholesale electricity prices averaged $38 per megawatt-hour (MWh), up 13% from their 2018 average.

Download Report PDF
The root cause of this cost increase were the massive distortions in Texas’ wholesale electricity market caused by renewable energy subsidies. Since 2006, wind- and solar-power generators in Texas have received about $19.4 billion in subsidies from federal, state, and local governments. In 2019, renewable subsidies totaled almost $2.4 billion.

Not only did Texans have to pay $3.1 billion for the electricity generated from renewable sources last year, they had to cover most of the cost of $2.4 billion in renewable energy subsidies that generators received. That equals about $67.9 per MWh for the 81.1 million MWhs generated by wind and solar generators last year. These costs show up on tax bills as well as electricity bills.

Key Points
Texas wholesale electricity prices jumped 13% in 2019, compared to drops from 15% to 30% in other markets

Retail electric prices in Texas increased by 6.8% last year, more than the 1.3% increase in U.S. retail prices

Renewable energy subsides in Texas last year cost $2.4 billion, and have totaled $19.4 billion since 2006

Wind and solar generation have increased this year by 5,432,001 MWh. Natural gas, which has increased only 2,352,049, and coal has decreased by 7,351,523 Meh


The all-in cost of wind and solar generation in Texas was $67.9 per MWh

The Fossil grid failed Texas.
All the wide open states are going Wind HUGE.
SD is # in renewable percent additions I believe.
Oil Oklahoma, Iowa, Kansas, etc.. going gangbusters wind.
Makes sense.
Not only costs less, it enriches ranchers and farmers many Billions, not in your who-knows-where-from (no doubt cherry-picked/selecta numbers) accounting.

BTW I am not against NG and don't think anything near 100% renewable is achievable.
I started a thread "What percent...." to try and knock it around.
`
 
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flacaltenn

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All these clowns incl you, say it will cost, ie, "$100 Trillion to replace."
It costs NOTHING as they are 'replacing' something that has it's own cost to rebuild, and it is less efficient and ls polluting. And in fact that is happening at many sites. Coal plants replaced.

You haven't replaced ANYTHING.. Still need a 2nd generator for wind/solar capacity because they dont SOURCE electricity all the time. Especially wind that can functionally take DAYS OFF at a time. All your unicorn fart economics from the fairies for renewables -- never MENTION THIS.

What's the cost of solar at sundown? What's the cost of wind when it's there for an hour and gone for next 4 hours?
 
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flacaltenn

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The Fossil grid failed Texas.

BECAUSE there wasn't enough of it when peak demand went off the charts.. Not enough NGas that Texas depends on to MAKE certain that when renewables dont produce -- the grid doesn't die.

Because EVERYBODY wants those subsidies, and NOBODY wants to build another nat gas plant when NORMAL peak demand is already covered.

I doubt you'll recognize that problem as a DANGEROUS situation -- but Europe right now is several years ahead of us. THEY are SCROUNGING for energy. So much so -- that Germany is UPPING COAL PRODUCTION to balance their grid against the OVERAGE of wind/solar that they installed, And UK is starving so bad everytime the French takes a nuclear plant down for maintenance that THEY are planning nuclear projects.

Not to mention the Putin Problem Europe has with GETTING NGas at all.
 

MisterBeale

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I don't agree, but for arguments sake.. who cares?
The much huger issue you just unwittingly admitted.
All these clowns incl you, say it will cost, ie, "$100 Trillion to replace."
It costs NOTHING as they are 'replacing' something that has it's own cost to rebuild, and it is less efficient and ls polluting. And in fact that is happening at many sites. Coal plants replaced.
Just a small sample of how foolish the propaganda and kool-aid you are drinking.
1664598599113.png


1664598718454.png
 

Grumblenuts

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THere's a big diff in economics and decisions between YOU going into the "energy biz" by putting up PV solar panels on your HOUSE and an incompetent government CLAIMING that "alternatives" can REPLACE fossil fuel totally on the grid. YOUR individual outcome might be slightly above break even since the government will SCREW you gradually with higher NIGHTTIME electricity prices, but keep the payments level for what you "OVER" generate during the day and put back on the grid -- if anything.

And like an energy company -- you're taking some risk. The risk of hail/storm damage, insurance to cover that -- having to remove and reinstall if roof needs repair, ect. IN MANY PLACES -- you can no longer GET insurance for those panels on your home.
Jesus. You would not do well. As I've told you before, the contract I signed was flat rate so I hope the price does go up. I'll still be paying what I've been per KWH, year after year. And, sorry, it's a rental deal. The entire works. No insurance. No maintenance. But nice try for clearly having no clue as to wtf you're talking about.

Funny though, you going on about insurance while continuing to promote nuke stuff that no private insurer has ever touched without public backing.
 
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abu afak

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You haven't replaced ANYTHING.. Still need a 2nd generator for wind/solar capacity because they dont SOURCE electricity all the time. Especially wind that can functionally take DAYS OFF at a time. All your unicorn fart economics from the fairies for renewables -- never MENTION THIS.

What's the cost of solar at sundown? What's the cost of wind when it's there for an hour and gone for next 4 hours?
All the calculations for solar include the fact they don't operate at night... OF COURSE!
Wind does blow at night.
Battery tech and the above two sources get better every year.
Solar has gotten 85% more efficient since 2010. It really doesn't need incentives any more except to offset the influence of Big Oil.
That's what has enabled the Green Revolution we are seeing.

Oil, as we see right now, is controlled by the worst possible countries. OPEC+Ru.
Thus a good part of our current inflation.
Solar, wind, battery, will never go to $150 a barrel. On the contrary, they will get more efficient yet. (somewhat like Moore's Law)

`
 
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Lastamender

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I have not looked at this thread because the title is a lie. Just saying.
 
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abu afak

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Which calculation for solar includes the cost of the nat gas backup needed at night? Link?
You Cheap little scvmbag. Always picking a phrase out of a coherent larger thought.. because you can't respond in kind: coherently or with elaboration.

But to answer/PORK you for the LAST TIME EVER.
The decision whether or not to build the solar plant!! Duh!

Goodbye forever except for the Negs you will receive.
(I would put your worthless one-line quips/baits on Ignore but alas this POS MB it's only blinds the user, not both posters.)

`
 
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Toddsterpatriot

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You Cheap little scvmbag. Always picking a phrase out of a coherent larger thought.. because you can't respond in kind: coherently or with elaboration.

But to answer/PORK you for the LAST TIME EVER.
The decision whether or not to build the solar plant!! Duh!

Goodbye forever except for the Negs you will receive.
(I would put your worthless one-line quips/baits on Ignore but alas this POS MB it's only blinds the user, not both posters.)

`

Poor little Sandy. So sensitive.
 

iamwhatiseem

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Cost has always been the key, and the only excuse the nutters have. It was inevitable that costs would come down.

Exciting news. Hopefully this country really HAS hit rock bottom and we're about to reverse course.

Excuse???
really?
America would not be the country it is without cheap energy.
Cheap energy is what made America a superpower. It is the absolute backbone of our economy.
It is how people in poverty can still have both heat and air conditioning... and afford it.
Excuse??
I challenge you to inform yourself about what has happened in France/Germany/Norway and throughout South America as they are being crippled by high energy cost BEFORE Russia invaded Ukraine.
Excuse??
What do you think will happen to poor people when their electric bill goes form $210/mo to $350???

At minimum 90% of conservative would be VERY glad to get off of fossil fuels WHEN there is an alternative that is equally as reliable and cost effective as fossil fuel. What we are not willing to do is crush half the population to switch to an unreliable energy source that is 5 times the cost.

Excuse... Jesus Christ
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Excuse???
really?
America would not be the country it is without cheap energy.
Cheap energy is what made America a superpower. It is the absolute backbone of our economy.
It is how people in poverty can still have both heat and air conditioning... and afford it.
Excuse??
I challenge you to inform yourself about what has happened in France/Germany/Norway and throughout South America as they are being crippled by high energy cost BEFORE Russia invaded Ukraine.
Excuse??
What do you think will happen to poor people when their electric bill goes form $210/mo to $350???

At minimum 90% of conservative would be VERY glad to get off of fossil fuels WHEN there is an alternative that is equally as reliable and cost effective as fossil fuel. What we are not willing to do is crush half the population to switch to an unreliable energy source that is 5 times the cost.

Excuse... Jesus Christ

The only thing liberals are worse at than math is economics.
 

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