Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power

[Crick]

You're not getting it Todd. It doesn't matter if it WAS a magic carpet and if it was TOTALLY responsible for every advance ever made in human history. We just CANNOT use it anymore because it's killing us. Open the eyes Todd... open the eyes.

 

[Crick]

Abu Afak is worried about how many dead and you want to know how many are still alive. Since we are very likely to be able to say any choice will accomplish both, you need to compare the numbers saved to the numbers lost for every option. It was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion to step away from the histrionics and weigh cost/benefits for these choices in a more grounded, pragmatic and objective manner.

That reminds me, when Moses was disputing with Pharaoh's magician-lawyers Jannes and Jambres in court -- Exodus 9:3-6 -- somehow Israel must have obtained a restitution of cattle for cattle, living for dead, from the Egyptians, for all the cattle that died in the murrain for which the Egyptians were held responsible because of the general conditions of filth exemplified by plagues of flies, lice, frogs, nasty boils on the skin, etc., etc.

The New World Order's government-mandated proprietary “vaccinations” -- from Italian «vacca» for “cow” -- for COVID-19® and the involuntary treatment of people as cattle for purposes of “herd immunity” and such -- do not inspire our confidence in the medical establishment’s respect for human rights -- let alone their competency in matters of veterinary care.

???

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We just CANNOT use it anymore because it's killing us.

Hilarious!

How much more land do we need to grow our food without manufactured fertilizer?
50% more? I guess we could eat Soylent Green.

Just make it with solar. DURR.

 

[boedicca]

Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power
Peter R. Orszag
Bloomberg
September 22, 2020

Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power

(Bloomberg Opinion) -- As the harm from climate change becomes increasingly manifest, there is some good news: The estimated cost of reducing carbon emissions is falling rapidly. One dramatic example is an analysis by Geoffrey Heal of Columbia University showing that it would cost only $6...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

"...Geoffrey Heal of Columbia University showing that it would cost only $6 billion a year for the U.S. to move to carbon-free electricity generation by 2050.​

​

Even if the precise numbers are off, Heal is right to emphasize that the transition to cleaner energy is much less costly today than it used to be. Three forces are changing the math.​

​

First, renewable power costs are dropping so fast, both utility-scale solar and onshore wind power have become cheaper than natural gas or coal power, as Lazard’s levelized-cost-of-energy estimates from 2019 show. As I wrote when these numbers came out, multiple forces have driven costs down, including ongoing improvements in technology and lower capital costs. (In November, Lazard will have updated estimates of the cost of various energy technologies.)​

​

Second, the cost of storing renewable energy is also falling. The challenge with wind and solar energy is that they are intermittent, so they require either supplemental conventional power, such as combined-cycle natural gas, or enough storage to smooth the variation relative to demand. As storage becomes more affordable than supplementation, the share of energy production based solely on renewable power can expand.​

.....​

Third, and crucially, many power plants are nearing the end of their useful lives and need to be replaced one way or another. That means the cost of building new facilities is a given, and shouldn’t be counted as a cost of the transition to lower-carbon electricity. ...​

[......]​

​

​

`​

The Economic Illiteracy and Intellectual Vacuity in this post are truly wonders to behold.

 

[boedicca]

We just CANNOT use it anymore because it's killing us.

Hilarious!

How much more land do we need to grow our food without manufactured fertilizer?
50% more? I guess we could eat Soylent Green.

Just make it with solar. DURR.

Soylent Green is definitely on the menu of the future.

 

[HenryBHough]

America's collective sleep deficit would certainly be reduced were all fossil fuel use outlawed and electricity priced according to actual cost - with no "green" subsidies.

It might be Hell on trees,though. Until the air pollution from using them to keep warm was also prohibited as it is in some counties these days.

If the process were sufficiently elongated would not evolution kick in?

Wount not the sheeple quickly evolve to bear fleece rather than simply being fleeced?

 

[Crick]

We just CANNOT use it anymore because it's killing us.

Hilarious!

How much more land do we need to grow our food without manufactured fertilizer?
50% more? I guess we could eat Soylent Green.

Just make it with solar. DURR.

I'm not opposed to using petroleum to make fertilizer. Did you not see my comment about petroleum as a materials resource. I just don't want to burn it.

 

[Grumblenuts]

But at least the wood and dung was / is carbon neutral. My problem is ignoring tons of idiots here, then forgetting some may have responded in between others.. I see justinacolmena thinks I'm wealthy, hilarious! No, I still burn wood occasionally and run the old oil furnace, but mostly I'm loving how the new pellet stove I installed last summer saves my back and legs from much of the old pain and strain for roughly the same cost as the oil and annual professional maintenance alone.

See, turns out you need a decent little soot vacuum with a pellet stove, so I'll just be using that to keep the oil heater reasonably clean from now on instead of paying some other fat slob to make a stinky mess of things for like $400 above the "blue plan" or whatever bullshit they call it now. I really don't think I'll have any trouble getting heating oil delivered on an as needed basis every two or three years perhaps. Talk about entitled, you'd probably be amazed by how stunned and stubbornly my heating oil company refused to believe I was dumping them. They demanded to know who I had switched to, lol!

Keeping the little chimney clean is also cake compared to wire brushing the creosote loose from the big, old SS chimney liner. The pellet "ash" collected from the entire winter amounts to and weighs practically nothing, which can then just be tossed around the lawn or garden for fertilizer. But, like burning wood, it does tend to stink up the neighborhood at times. Plus it's made a fine mess of my siding which I'll have to start dealing with soon..

Hell, I was even burning coal last winter, no longer able to process the four to five cords of wood required to keep the oil man crying. I found I could stretch the firewood a lot by adding coal. But that was really gross. I'm happy to move on and hopefully burn nothing at all in another 5 to 10 years..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm not opposed to using petroleum to make fertilizer. Did you not see my comment about petroleum as a materials resource.

You want to make ammonia out of petroleum?
You should stop, seriously.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But at least the wood and dung was / is carbon neutral. My problem is ignoring tons of idiots here, then forgetting some may have responded in between others.. I see justinacolmena thinks I'm wealthy, hilarious! No, I still burn wood occasionally and run the old oil furnace, but mostly I'm loving how the new pellet stove I installed last summer saves my back and legs from much of the old pain and strain for roughly the same cost as the oil and annual professional maintenance alone.

See, turns out you need a decent little soot vacuum with a pellet stove, so I'll just be using that to keep the oil heater reasonably clean from now on instead of paying some other fat slob to make a stinky mess of things for like $400 above the "blue plan" or whatever bullshit they call it now. I really don't think I'll have any trouble getting heating oil delivered on an as needed basis every two or three years perhaps. Talk about entitled, you'd probably be amazed by how stunned and stubbornly my heating oil company refused to believe I was dumping them. They demanded to know who I had switched to, lol!

Keeping the little chimney clean is also cake compared to wire brushing the creosote loose from the big, old SS chimney liner. The pellet "ash" collected from the entire winter amounts to and weighs practically nothing, which can then just be tossed around the lawn or garden for fertilizer. But, like burning wood, it does tend to stink up the neighborhood at times. Plus it's made a fine mess of my siding which I'll have to start dealing with soon..

Hell, I was even burning coal last winter, no longer able to process the four to five cords of wood required to keep the oil man crying. I found I could stretch the firewood a lot by adding coal. But that was really gross. I'm happy to move on and hopefully burn nothing at all in another 5 to 10 years..

But at least the wood and dung was / is carbon neutral.

A lot rougher on the lungs.....not to mention a lot less efficient.

 

[Crick]

Wood is only carbon neutral if you burn it no faster than it grows. When it was a primary fuel, that was not the case. Large swaths of the world's forests have been razed for firewood.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Indeed. What we're learning (better than ever) now is how no till farming practices combined with regular additions of surface organic mulch (just leaves, grass, stalks, etc. and no fossil fertilizers / pesticides) gradually builds thick topsoil that can capture and hold tons of greenhouse gases instead of continuing to rely upon commercial farming practices that only add to the problem.

 

[badger2]

#66:’ using them to keep warm...’ In Wisconsin, we went from 1 Ap 2020 to 1 Ap 2021 not spending one red cent for heat while sleeping. Fuck You, Petroleum Pimp.

 

[abu afak]

elektra said:

I see no link in response to my post.​

You make big claims with zero proof.​

And again, quit trolling. You just had another chance to refute what I say but as always you do not.​

See this?
elektra get electrocuted.
He blatantly makes false claims and Lies.
`

 

[Grumblenuts]

Don't you think there's a little more to it than just fossil fuels? Agricultural science, plant breeding, medicine, transportation, food preservation, refrigeration, soil science, biology, nutrition science, etc, etc, etc. I'm not denying that the energy available from fossil fuels helped a lot, but it wasn't a magic carpet to food-for-all. And now it's time to move on. We can get energy by other means; means that aren't going to catastrophically alter the planet's climate over the next several centuries. There is no more reason to hold on to fossil fuels than there was to hold on to that wood and dung.

Thanks for that excellent rebuttal.

 

[Grumblenuts]

blah blah blah!

In April 2020, the average price of electricity in California — across all sectors — jumped by 7.7% over April 2019 numbers. Residential electricity costs jumped even more. In April 2020, residential consumers in California were paying 20.47 cents per kilowatt-hour, an increase of 13.4% over April 2019 prices.Jul 8, 2020

blaa, blaa indeed. A 13.4% change in Enron land is nothing new and nothing close to "3 x" anything. Go fish until you can manage to get a "3 x" in the boat. Glad I haven't been holding my breath..

 

[ding]

Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power
Peter R. Orszag
Bloomberg
September 22, 2020

Price Is No Longer an Obstacle to Clean Power

(Bloomberg Opinion) -- As the harm from climate change becomes increasingly manifest, there is some good news: The estimated cost of reducing carbon emissions is falling rapidly. One dramatic example is an analysis by Geoffrey Heal of Columbia University showing that it would cost only $6...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

"...Geoffrey Heal of Columbia University showing that it would cost only $6 billion a year for the U.S. to move to carbon-free electricity generation by 2050.​

​

Even if the precise numbers are off, Heal is right to emphasize that the transition to cleaner energy is much less costly today than it used to be. Three forces are changing the math.​

​

First, renewable power costs are dropping so fast, both utility-scale solar and onshore wind power have become cheaper than natural gas or coal power, as Lazard’s levelized-cost-of-energy estimates from 2019 show. As I wrote when these numbers came out, multiple forces have driven costs down, including ongoing improvements in technology and lower capital costs. (In November, Lazard will have updated estimates of the cost of various energy technologies.)​

​

Second, the cost of storing renewable energy is also falling. The challenge with wind and solar energy is that they are intermittent, so they require either supplemental conventional power, such as combined-cycle natural gas, or enough storage to smooth the variation relative to demand. As storage becomes more affordable than supplementation, the share of energy production based solely on renewable power can expand.​

.....​

Third, and crucially, many power plants are nearing the end of their useful lives and need to be replaced one way or another. That means the cost of building new facilities is a given, and shouldn’t be counted as a cost of the transition to lower-carbon electricity. ...​

[......]​

​

​

`​

Not if you include the cost of battery backup which is what will be required if solar and wind are to replace fossil fuels. If you include those costs it will be two to three times more.

 

[Flash]

"Clean power"? You mean Unicorn farts?

 

[jc456]

Cost has always been the key, and the only excuse the nutters have. It was inevitable that costs would come down.

Exciting news. Hopefully this country really HAS hit rock bottom and we're about to reverse course.

what costs came down? Ask Germany!!!

Germany's 'Green' Energy Disaster Is A Warning To The United States

Germany’s energy problems are self-inflicted. Ours will be, as well, if we follow its lead in pursuing 'green' energy.

thefederalist.com

 

[jc456]

And they will ignore the degree to which the fossil fuel industry is subsidized.

because they aren't. There's that.