Palestinians: 10,000 years ago, since Abraham or since the Mandate for Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

The truth is just the truth all day long. It doesn't change based on political ambitions. You should be more sensitive to such demonization considering Hitler did that to the Jewish people.

Quit Surada, jut Quit.
And how dare you DARE......infer that the Jews are doing to others what the Nazis did to them?

Get a freaking brain.

QUIT already. !!!!

 

[MartyNYC]

Philistia has NOTHING to do with Palestine.. Philistia is referring to the Sea people.

10,000 years ago is long before Abraham or the Akkadian Empire from Arabia or even the Marsh Arabs.

Do you even remember Nasser or the cause of the Suez Crisis?

Palestine and Philistia both refer to Philistines, who were related to Greeks, not Arabs.

 

[surada]

Palestine and Philistia both refer to Philistines, who were related to Greeks, not Arabs.

The Akkadians were Arabs... they preceded the Jews by a thousand years. Are you familiar with the scope of the Akkadian Empire?

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Akkadians were Arabs... they preceded the Jews by a thousand years. Are you familiar with the scope of the Akkadian Empire?

The Akkadians were NOT Arabs.
Arabian Peninsula is too big an area for ALL people to be considered Arabs.

Islam is probably what brought most people, tribes, clans to be known as Arabs, and also because of the Arabic Language.

It would be the same a saying that the Polish, English, Italians were all one people if they happened to be speaking the same language.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Akkadians were Arabs... they preceded the Jews by a thousand years. Are you familiar with the scope of the Akkadian Empire?

And the Akkadians did not precede the inhabitants of Ancient Canaan, some of whom joined with the Jewish Nation and formed Israel.

 

[watchingfromafar]

And the Akkadians did not precede the inhabitants of Ancient Canaan, some of whom joined with the Jewish Nation and formed Israel.

There never was a “Jewish Nation”

The Jews were Shepard’s
(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
..,........
Then there is this----

Sixties Fan, you just do not know what you are talking about.

Please,
You are probably suffering from trumpitest.

For you and your family's sake, consult your doctor or go to the nearest emergency room. There is a cure for trumpitest !!

-

 

[watchingfromafar]

It would be the same a saying that the Polish, English, Italians were all one people if they happened to be speaking the same language.

Polish language, Polish Język Polski, West Slavic language belonging to the Lekhitic subgroup and closely related to Czech, Slovak, and the Sorbian languages of eastern Germany; it is spoken by the majority of the present population of Poland.
Polish language | Britannica

Italian (italiano [itaˈljaːno] (listen) or lingua italiana [ˈliŋɡwa itaˈljaːna]) is a Romance language of the Indo-European language family that evolved from the Vulgar Latin of the Roman Empire. Spoken by about 85 million people (2022),
Italian language - Wikipedia

No, they did not speak English
next -

 

[MartyNYC]

There never was a “Jewish Nation”

The Jews were Shepard’s
(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
..,........
Then there is this----

Sixties Fan, you just do not know what you are talking about.

Please,
You are probably suffering from trumpitest.

For you and your family's sake, consult your doctor or go to the nearest emergency room. There is a cure for trumpitest !!

Renowned Middle East archaeologist William Dever: “Facts matter and some facts matter a great deal. The reality of ancient Israel is such a fact. The ancient Israelites were a real people, in a real time and place.”

Bernard Lewis, “Dean of Middle East historians”: “This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted, often complex identities. But Palestine was not one of them. Even the adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.”

 

[MartyNYC]

There never was a “Jewish Nation”

The Jews were Shepard’s
(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
..,........
Then there is this----

Sixties Fan, you just do not know what you are talking about.

Please,
You are probably suffering from trumpitest.

For you and your family's sake, consult your doctor or go to the nearest emergency room. There is a cure for trumpitest !!

Jews have one of the longest histories, if not the longest, as a distinct people with a continuous identity expressed in language, culture, genealogy, religion. The Hebrews or Israelites survived when others—Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines, Hittites, Babylonians vanished.

 

[watchingfromafar]

The reality of ancient Israel is such a fact. The ancient Israelites were a real people, in a real time and place.”

Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Promised Land
“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the promised land of Israel spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.

Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan running along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King Omri of Israel. Their capital was Dibon, located next to the modern Jordanian town of Dhiban.”
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Moab

From there they moved to Egypt

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph (a Jewish leader)commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:
(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.
(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.
(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.
(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.
Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms, the Jews were nomads who were wanderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.

Then the question that needs to be asked---

Why do the Israelis call the land they live on today their ancestral land?
-

 

[surada]

It is understandable that some posters may confuse or deny the use of the word Palestinians, for a people, with the word Palestine, for a region in Ancient Canaan.

Which is it? Has a Palestinian identity and culture existed since a mass migration to Canaan 10,000 years ago, (was there such a mass migration?) or were they there since the time of Abraham, or are they a more modern creation after the Balfour Declaration, Mandate for PALESTINE, and Israel's Independence in 1948?

Was the identity created by Nasser in 1964 in Moscow with the help of the Soviet KGB? For what reason?

This is the thread to show Palestinian History before the Mandate for Palestine. The Palestinian Museum is rather silent about it.

The Palestinian Museum | The Palestinian Museum

www.palmuseum.org

Palestine, the region:

The word Palestine derives from the Greek word, Philistia, which dates to Ancient Greek writers' descriptions of the region in the 12th century B.C. Since the fall of the Ottoman Empire in World War I to 1948, Palestine typically referred to the geographic region located between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. Arab people who call this territory home have been known as Palestinians since the early 20th century. Much of this land is now considered present-day Israel.

Scholars believe the name “Palestine” originally comes from the word “Philistia,” which refers to the Philistines who occupied part of the region in the 12th century B.C.

Throughout history, Palestine has been ruled by numerous groups, including the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Fatimids, Seljuk Turks, Crusaders, Egyptians and Mamelukes.

From about 1517 to 1917, the Ottoman Empire ruled much of the region.

Palestine | HISTORY , Religion & Conflicts | HISTORY

Palestine is a small region of land in the eastern Mediterranean region that includes parts of modern Israel and the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. It has played a prominent role in the ancient and modern history of the Middle East and has been marked by frequent...

www.history.com

Palestinians, the People:

The Formation of Palestinian Collective Identities: The Ottoman and Mandatory Periods on JSTOR

Baruch Kimmerling, The Formation of Palestinian Collective Identities: The Ottoman and Mandatory Periods, Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 36, No. 2 (Apr., 2000), pp. 48-81

www.jstor.org

PIJ.ORG: Reflections on Writing the History of Palestinian Identity By Issam Nassar

An independent publication, with an often critical voice, the Palestine-Israel Journal provides background material and in-depth analysis of various aspects of the conflict from the perspective of both sides, thus helping to shed light on the complex issues dividing Israelis and Palestinians and...

pij.org

Palestinians: Invented People

Both historically and in contemporary times, the Arabs living in the area now known as Palestine were regarded both by outsiders and by their own spokespeople as members of the greater Arab population

besacenter.org

Was there a Palestinian “national identity” prior to 1964?

From the blog of Alan Meyer at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

I cannot find one invader or visitor to the area who identified any of the population present as Palestinian. Any Arabs, Bedouin or Druze who might have called themselves or would be identified by that national identity by any of those invaders, visitors or inhabitants.

The Ottoman Census of 1831 to 1917 divides the population of the region as such:

https://psi424.cankaya.edu.tr/uploads/files/Shaw,%20Ott%20Census%20System%20and%20Pop,%201831-1914%20(1978).pdf

Thanks to all who join this conversation

The population of Palestine was quite small throughout history even before the Ottoman Empire.

Jerusalem was 10 acres and 1000 people.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[surada]

Jews have one of the longest histories, if not the longest, as a distinct people with a continuous identity expressed in language, culture, genealogy, religion. The Hebrews or Israelites survived when others—Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines, Hittites, Babylonians vanished.

They didn't vanish. They lived and died.. intermarried, raised families.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

The population of Palestine was quite small throughout history even before the Ottoman Empire.

Jerusalem was 10 acres and 1000 people.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

QUIT already. !!!!

 

[surada]

QUIT already. !!!!

Israel has some of the finest scholars and archaeologists in the world and you dismiss them.

The Population of Jerusalem Through History - Dr. Andrew Jackson

Jerusalem's population through history.

www.drandrewjackson.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel has some of the finest scholars and archaeologists in the world and you dismiss them.

The Population of Jerusalem Through History - Dr. Andrew Jackson

Jerusalem's population through history.

www.drandrewjackson.com

The question of this thread is about Arabs alleging being in Canaan 10,000 years ago. Or from the time of Abraham.

That is what you kept alleging.

You have bore no fruit of evidence that Arab Palestinians have been in Canaan from time immemorial, 10,000 years ago, etc. That THEY are part of the Canaanite people.

How long is long enough for you to play this game and than stop because you are NEVER going to find any evidence for the simple reason that NONE exists.

 

[surada]

The question of this thread is about Arabs alleging being in Canaan 10,000 years ago. Or from the time of Abraham.

That is what you kept alleging.

You have bore no fruit of evidence that Arab Palestinians have been in Canaan from time immemorial, 10,000 years ago, etc. That THEY are part of the Canaanite people.

How long is long enough for you to play this game and than stop because you are NEVER going to find any evidence for the simple reason that NONE exists.

The Akkadians were from the Arabian peninsula and they were in Mesopotamia and the Levant before Judaism. Sargon was an Arab. Moses and Abraham had Arab wives. Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria around 500 BC.. the Elamites, Amorites and Midianites were Arabs. They probably are related to the Canaanites. Abraham was from south eastern Turkey. See Ugarit texts from Ras Shamra. That's where Psalms and the flood myth came from.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The question of this thread is about Arabs alleging being in Canaan 10,000 years ago. Or from the time of Abraham.

That is what you kept alleging.

You have bore no fruit of evidence that Arab Palestinians have been in Canaan from time immemorial, 10,000 years ago, etc. That THEY are part of the Canaanite people.

How long is long enough for you to play this game and than stop because you are NEVER going to find any evidence for the simple reason that NONE exists.

You have bore no fruit of evidence that Arab Palestinians have been in Canaan from time immemorial, 10,000 years ago, etc. That THEY are part of the Canaanite people.

There is no evidence that the entire population ever moved out and a hole new people moved in. For the most part, the people are the same people who have lived there forever.

 

[rylah]

There is no evidence that the entire population ever moved out and a hole new people moved in. For the most part, the people are the same people who have lived there forever.

That's a colonialist argument.

No need for evidence of expulsion of the whole population to see the Arab majority
who can't even pronounce 'P - alestine', and occupy most Middle East countries,
are the non- indigenous majority.

 

[MartyNYC]

They didn't vanish. They lived and died.. intermarried, raised families.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Historian James Parkes: “Through the centuries, the region called Palestine became a national home for the Jews, and for no other definable people.”

 

[MartyNYC]

There is no evidence that the entire population ever moved out and a hole new people moved in. For the most part, the people are the same people who have lived there forever.

Historian James Parkes: “Through the centuries, the region called Palestine became a national home for the Jews, and for no other definable people.”