NY Post Story on Hunter Biden quickly unraveling.

[Zorro!]

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

The actual science is the more energy dense fuel you use, the less carbon emissions there actually is. The order of energy density goes from (least-greatest) wood, coal, oil, gas, then nuclear (which doesn’t have carbon as a byproduct of the process). Wood is at 16 MJ/kg vs coal (depending on the type) is in the range of 20-30MJ/kg. Due to the laws of physics, it takes around twice the amount of carbon expenditure for wood to boil water (boiling water is the method for basically every large scale power generation) compared to coal. Natural gas is at 40 MJ/m3. So, thanks to Isaac Newton natural gas uses at least 33% less carbon byproduct to boil water. On top of that, with the nature of it being gas, and technology allowing precision amounts of gas to obtain the desired temp, there’s far less wasteful burning of it vs a solid fuel. In other words, a 1/m3 of gas goes a lot further than 1/KG of any solid fuel. Maybe you could achieve the same results with a powdered fuel as you would gas, but to powder it would be a process that requires more energy expenditure than gas in its natural form. Obviously because there is no carbon involved in the nuclear process, it’s superior by far. If you “care” about the climate, and you’re not pushing for nuclear, exit the conversation immediately. We haven’t even scratched the surface of what we can do with nuclear. We’re using 80 year old technology, and even then it’s still the far superior option. All because Jane Fonda, Gov Brown, the Sierra Club, and scores of other elites decided to demonize nuclear. Many of them to profit off of the oil business dealings they had (cough* cough* gov Brown), others because they nonsensically conflated nuclear energy with nuclear bombs during the Cold War (cough* cough* Jane Fonda types). And others (cough* cough* the Sierra club) wanted to continue their exploitation of 3rd world countries, because it’s easier to exploit poor people who remain poor by spending vast amounts of energy and money (and vast amount of environmental damage as well as carbon emissions) to cook their food and heat their homes using wood (set up for my next paragraph). It also helps when the philosophy of your little elite Sierra club is a Malthusian one, so fuck those poor people, amaright?

As I set up in the last paragraph......I mentioned wood even though it’s hardly used in 1st world countries. Not true for 3rd world countries. There’s this crazy idea out there that we can “leap frog” the 3rd world with renewable energies, and bypass coal and gas completely (set up for my 3rd paragraph). Absolutely absurd idea. The 1st world is struggling “renewable energy”. It is not reliable. So what winds up happening in these countries is that people just go back to using wood. Cutting down vast swaths of carbon scrubbing trees, destroying natural habitats, and oh yeah, dumping a hell of a lot more carbon into the atmosphere than they would if we accelerated their development with coal, then to gas, then to nuclear. Obviously I have no problem in helping them develop clean burning coal, clean burning gas, etc. It’s just a simple fact. The more developed your country is, the less emissions there are per person. It also follows that the less resources (physical, time, money, etc) people have to spend producing energy (I.e. cutting down trees, splitting wood, starting and keeping fires) the more time and energy they will have to be productive in other areas and become more prosperous. Having a reliable source of electricity is basically the #1 key on the road to prosperity, and consequently a reduction in carbon emissions.

What people are also not telling you is that not only is solar and wind severely unreliable, the battery/fuel cell tech is not there (never will be until the invention of super conductors), but also the production of fuel cells and panels (which eventually go bad 10 years at best) creates more emissions, and there is NO safe way to dispose of the extremely environmentally hazardous materials used to make them. There simply is no way to get around Isaac Newton’s laws. People think solar panels just sit there and the sun hits them and bam, energy. The sun itself does not boil water on its own (in most areas). Therefore you need to go through an energy costing process in order to get the photons from the sun to be transformed into usable energy. Not only do you need energy to do this, you also need extremely environmentally toxic chemicals to help boost this process. Both fuel cells and the solar panels themselves are made out of extremely toxic materials. Currently the strategy of nations “leading the way with renewable energy” is to pay 3rd world countries to have them take the fuel cell/panel waste to throw in a dump somewhere. And you can bet your bottom dollar they aren’t dumping it in a safe way. Basically, the net energy solar is producing is 2 steps backward to get 3 steps forward, AT BEST, as long as the panels last 10 years WITHOUT the use of fuel cell storage (which also goes bad). You simply cannot get around the laws of physics. Solar/wind is actually way more expensive for citizens. It is so unreliable, no sun, not enough wind, power plants have to stay fully staffed even when shut down, because they will have to continually power up and power back down. Mind you these are plants designed to run continuously, and the constant power-up power-down process is extremely energy inefficient. So, if you live in an area receiving energy from solar panels or wind, you’re paying for the same power plant you’ve been using before plus the solar/wind generators, plus the infrastructure between the renewable generators, plus the costly process (both in carbon emissions and dollars) of powering up and down continuously. As it turns out, our most “renewable” energy is water. Yes it requires energy to boil, but it goes up, comes back down, and we have plenty of it. This is why nuclear is by far the best option. Zero emissions to hear water, a fraction of a percentile of the current waste produced by solar, as well as a very easy and safe way to store it, and oh yeah did mention far less energy and land investment made into building a Nuclear plant. I almost forgot to mention the vast amounts of land needed for solar/wind just produce a fraction of what a standard power plant can produce. You know, land that would otherwise be used by those big green leafy things (the name escapes me) that actually absorb carbon and exhale oxygen. Land that’s also home to the little critters we value so much.

That is a lot of deluded gibberish.


I think I will go with the actual scientists on this one and the consensus is clear, we are warming the planet with carbon emissions.

You do not have to believe it, you do not have to believe in gravity either, but you still have to live with it.

Consensus isn't science, moron. It's politics.

We don't have to live with nutbag proposals to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

It's Fake News. All scientists were not asked a testable question that would support AGW with 97% of all scientists affirming. It's a fake news talking point that means nothing.

 

[Zorro!]

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

The actual science is the more energy dense fuel you use, the less carbon emissions there actually is. The order of energy density goes from (least-greatest) wood, coal, oil, gas, then nuclear (which doesn’t have carbon as a byproduct of the process). Wood is at 16 MJ/kg vs coal (depending on the type) is in the range of 20-30MJ/kg. Due to the laws of physics, it takes around twice the amount of carbon expenditure for wood to boil water (boiling water is the method for basically every large scale power generation) compared to coal. Natural gas is at 40 MJ/m3. So, thanks to Isaac Newton natural gas uses at least 33% less carbon byproduct to boil water. On top of that, with the nature of it being gas, and technology allowing precision amounts of gas to obtain the desired temp, there’s far less wasteful burning of it vs a solid fuel. In other words, a 1/m3 of gas goes a lot further than 1/KG of any solid fuel. Maybe you could achieve the same results with a powdered fuel as you would gas, but to powder it would be a process that requires more energy expenditure than gas in its natural form. Obviously because there is no carbon involved in the nuclear process, it’s superior by far. If you “care” about the climate, and you’re not pushing for nuclear, exit the conversation immediately. We haven’t even scratched the surface of what we can do with nuclear. We’re using 80 year old technology, and even then it’s still the far superior option. All because Jane Fonda, Gov Brown, the Sierra Club, and scores of other elites decided to demonize nuclear. Many of them to profit off of the oil business dealings they had (cough* cough* gov Brown), others because they nonsensically conflated nuclear energy with nuclear bombs during the Cold War (cough* cough* Jane Fonda types). And others (cough* cough* the Sierra club) wanted to continue their exploitation of 3rd world countries, because it’s easier to exploit poor people who remain poor by spending vast amounts of energy and money (and vast amount of environmental damage as well as carbon emissions) to cook their food and heat their homes using wood (set up for my next paragraph). It also helps when the philosophy of your little elite Sierra club is a Malthusian one, so fuck those poor people, amaright?

As I set up in the last paragraph......I mentioned wood even though it’s hardly used in 1st world countries. Not true for 3rd world countries. There’s this crazy idea out there that we can “leap frog” the 3rd world with renewable energies, and bypass coal and gas completely (set up for my 3rd paragraph). Absolutely absurd idea. The 1st world is struggling “renewable energy”. It is not reliable. So what winds up happening in these countries is that people just go back to using wood. Cutting down vast swaths of carbon scrubbing trees, destroying natural habitats, and oh yeah, dumping a hell of a lot more carbon into the atmosphere than they would if we accelerated their development with coal, then to gas, then to nuclear. Obviously I have no problem in helping them develop clean burning coal, clean burning gas, etc. It’s just a simple fact. The more developed your country is, the less emissions there are per person. It also follows that the less resources (physical, time, money, etc) people have to spend producing energy (I.e. cutting down trees, splitting wood, starting and keeping fires) the more time and energy they will have to be productive in other areas and become more prosperous. Having a reliable source of electricity is basically the #1 key on the road to prosperity, and consequently a reduction in carbon emissions.

What people are also not telling you is that not only is solar and wind severely unreliable, the battery/fuel cell tech is not there (never will be until the invention of super conductors), but also the production of fuel cells and panels (which eventually go bad 10 years at best) creates more emissions, and there is NO safe way to dispose of the extremely environmentally hazardous materials used to make them. There simply is no way to get around Isaac Newton’s laws. People think solar panels just sit there and the sun hits them and bam, energy. The sun itself does not boil water on its own (in most areas). Therefore you need to go through an energy costing process in order to get the photons from the sun to be transformed into usable energy. Not only do you need energy to do this, you also need extremely environmentally toxic chemicals to help boost this process. Both fuel cells and the solar panels themselves are made out of extremely toxic materials. Currently the strategy of nations “leading the way with renewable energy” is to pay 3rd world countries to have them take the fuel cell/panel waste to throw in a dump somewhere. And you can bet your bottom dollar they aren’t dumping it in a safe way. Basically, the net energy solar is producing is 2 steps backward to get 3 steps forward, AT BEST, as long as the panels last 10 years WITHOUT the use of fuel cell storage (which also goes bad). You simply cannot get around the laws of physics. Solar/wind is actually way more expensive for citizens. It is so unreliable, no sun, not enough wind, power plants have to stay fully staffed even when shut down, because they will have to continually power up and power back down. Mind you these are plants designed to run continuously, and the constant power-up power-down process is extremely energy inefficient. So, if you live in an area receiving energy from solar panels or wind, you’re paying for the same power plant you’ve been using before plus the solar/wind generators, plus the infrastructure between the renewable generators, plus the costly process (both in carbon emissions and dollars) of powering up and down continuously. As it turns out, our most “renewable” energy is water. Yes it requires energy to boil, but it goes up, comes back down, and we have plenty of it. This is why nuclear is by far the best option. Zero emissions to hear water, a fraction of a percentile of the current waste produced by solar, as well as a very easy and safe way to store it, and oh yeah did mention far less energy and land investment made into building a Nuclear plant. I almost forgot to mention the vast amounts of land needed for solar/wind just produce a fraction of what a standard power plant can produce. You know, land that would otherwise be used by those big green leafy things (the name escapes me) that actually absorb carbon and exhale oxygen. Land that’s also home to the little critters we value so much.

That is a lot of deluded gibberish.


I think I will go with the actual scientists on this one and the consensus is clear, we are warming the planet with carbon emissions.

You do not have to believe it, you do not have to believe in gravity either, but you still have to live with it.

What is the testable statement that 97% of all scientists agreed on?

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

The actual science is the more energy dense fuel you use, the less carbon emissions there actually is. The order of energy density goes from (least-greatest) wood, coal, oil, gas, then nuclear (which doesn’t have carbon as a byproduct of the process). Wood is at 16 MJ/kg vs coal (depending on the type) is in the range of 20-30MJ/kg. Due to the laws of physics, it takes around twice the amount of carbon expenditure for wood to boil water (boiling water is the method for basically every large scale power generation) compared to coal. Natural gas is at 40 MJ/m3. So, thanks to Isaac Newton natural gas uses at least 33% less carbon byproduct to boil water. On top of that, with the nature of it being gas, and technology allowing precision amounts of gas to obtain the desired temp, there’s far less wasteful burning of it vs a solid fuel. In other words, a 1/m3 of gas goes a lot further than 1/KG of any solid fuel. Maybe you could achieve the same results with a powdered fuel as you would gas, but to powder it would be a process that requires more energy expenditure than gas in its natural form. Obviously because there is no carbon involved in the nuclear process, it’s superior by far. If you “care” about the climate, and you’re not pushing for nuclear, exit the conversation immediately. We haven’t even scratched the surface of what we can do with nuclear. We’re using 80 year old technology, and even then it’s still the far superior option. All because Jane Fonda, Gov Brown, the Sierra Club, and scores of other elites decided to demonize nuclear. Many of them to profit off of the oil business dealings they had (cough* cough* gov Brown), others because they nonsensically conflated nuclear energy with nuclear bombs during the Cold War (cough* cough* Jane Fonda types). And others (cough* cough* the Sierra club) wanted to continue their exploitation of 3rd world countries, because it’s easier to exploit poor people who remain poor by spending vast amounts of energy and money (and vast amount of environmental damage as well as carbon emissions) to cook their food and heat their homes using wood (set up for my next paragraph). It also helps when the philosophy of your little elite Sierra club is a Malthusian one, so fuck those poor people, amaright?

As I set up in the last paragraph......I mentioned wood even though it’s hardly used in 1st world countries. Not true for 3rd world countries. There’s this crazy idea out there that we can “leap frog” the 3rd world with renewable energies, and bypass coal and gas completely (set up for my 3rd paragraph). Absolutely absurd idea. The 1st world is struggling “renewable energy”. It is not reliable. So what winds up happening in these countries is that people just go back to using wood. Cutting down vast swaths of carbon scrubbing trees, destroying natural habitats, and oh yeah, dumping a hell of a lot more carbon into the atmosphere than they would if we accelerated their development with coal, then to gas, then to nuclear. Obviously I have no problem in helping them develop clean burning coal, clean burning gas, etc. It’s just a simple fact. The more developed your country is, the less emissions there are per person. It also follows that the less resources (physical, time, money, etc) people have to spend producing energy (I.e. cutting down trees, splitting wood, starting and keeping fires) the more time and energy they will have to be productive in other areas and become more prosperous. Having a reliable source of electricity is basically the #1 key on the road to prosperity, and consequently a reduction in carbon emissions.

What people are also not telling you is that not only is solar and wind severely unreliable, the battery/fuel cell tech is not there (never will be until the invention of super conductors), but also the production of fuel cells and panels (which eventually go bad 10 years at best) creates more emissions, and there is NO safe way to dispose of the extremely environmentally hazardous materials used to make them. There simply is no way to get around Isaac Newton’s laws. People think solar panels just sit there and the sun hits them and bam, energy. The sun itself does not boil water on its own (in most areas). Therefore you need to go through an energy costing process in order to get the photons from the sun to be transformed into usable energy. Not only do you need energy to do this, you also need extremely environmentally toxic chemicals to help boost this process. Both fuel cells and the solar panels themselves are made out of extremely toxic materials. Currently the strategy of nations “leading the way with renewable energy” is to pay 3rd world countries to have them take the fuel cell/panel waste to throw in a dump somewhere. And you can bet your bottom dollar they aren’t dumping it in a safe way. Basically, the net energy solar is producing is 2 steps backward to get 3 steps forward, AT BEST, as long as the panels last 10 years WITHOUT the use of fuel cell storage (which also goes bad). You simply cannot get around the laws of physics. Solar/wind is actually way more expensive for citizens. It is so unreliable, no sun, not enough wind, power plants have to stay fully staffed even when shut down, because they will have to continually power up and power back down. Mind you these are plants designed to run continuously, and the constant power-up power-down process is extremely energy inefficient. So, if you live in an area receiving energy from solar panels or wind, you’re paying for the same power plant you’ve been using before plus the solar/wind generators, plus the infrastructure between the renewable generators, plus the costly process (both in carbon emissions and dollars) of powering up and down continuously. As it turns out, our most “renewable” energy is water. Yes it requires energy to boil, but it goes up, comes back down, and we have plenty of it. This is why nuclear is by far the best option. Zero emissions to hear water, a fraction of a percentile of the current waste produced by solar, as well as a very easy and safe way to store it, and oh yeah did mention far less energy and land investment made into building a Nuclear plant. I almost forgot to mention the vast amounts of land needed for solar/wind just produce a fraction of what a standard power plant can produce. You know, land that would otherwise be used by those big green leafy things (the name escapes me) that actually absorb carbon and exhale oxygen. Land that’s also home to the little critters we value so much.

That is a lot of deluded gibberish.


I think I will go with the actual scientists on this one and the consensus is clear, we are warming the planet with carbon emissions.

You do not have to believe it, you do not have to believe in gravity either, but you still have to live with it.

Consensus isn't science, moron. It's politics.

We don't have to live with nutbag proposals to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Yes, there is a scientific consensus that gravity exists.

Now that is always up for challenge through empirical evidence if one can provide that evidence.

Such evidence does not exist.

The same applies to global warming.

Once again I refer you to actual scientists.

Scientific Consensus - NASA Science

It’s important to remember that scientists always focus on the evidence, not on opinions. Scientific evidence continues to show that human activities (primarily the human burning of fossil fuels) have warmed Earth’s surface and its ocean basins, which in turn have continued to impact Earth’s...

climate.nasa.gov

Sorry, but the argument for the existence of gravity hasn't changed in quite some time and there is no funny money behind it. There is a stark difference. Gravity is settled science, man made global warming is not.

Oh yes every international scientific body in the world is being bribed. Because as with gravity there is a scientific consensus on this issue.

NASA is being bribed.

Probably by the Secret Society of Spaghetti Monsters Against Fossil Fuels and Vaccines.

Fake News.

1. What are the testable statements they affirmed?
2. How was this affirmation communicated?
3. How many directly affirmed the statements in question 1?
4. How many total scientists are their in the world?

You can actually read their methods and papers, that is how science works and it will answer you questions, but you will never consult any source that tells you w

I am worn out, discussing science with you is like trying to discuss quantum physics with a gerbil that just emerged from Elton John's ass.

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

The actual science is the more energy dense fuel you use, the less carbon emissions there actually is. The order of energy density goes from (least-greatest) wood, coal, oil, gas, then nuclear (which doesn’t have carbon as a byproduct of the process). Wood is at 16 MJ/kg vs coal (depending on the type) is in the range of 20-30MJ/kg. Due to the laws of physics, it takes around twice the amount of carbon expenditure for wood to boil water (boiling water is the method for basically every large scale power generation) compared to coal. Natural gas is at 40 MJ/m3. So, thanks to Isaac Newton natural gas uses at least 33% less carbon byproduct to boil water. On top of that, with the nature of it being gas, and technology allowing precision amounts of gas to obtain the desired temp, there’s far less wasteful burning of it vs a solid fuel. In other words, a 1/m3 of gas goes a lot further than 1/KG of any solid fuel. Maybe you could achieve the same results with a powdered fuel as you would gas, but to powder it would be a process that requires more energy expenditure than gas in its natural form. Obviously because there is no carbon involved in the nuclear process, it’s superior by far. If you “care” about the climate, and you’re not pushing for nuclear, exit the conversation immediately. We haven’t even scratched the surface of what we can do with nuclear. We’re using 80 year old technology, and even then it’s still the far superior option. All because Jane Fonda, Gov Brown, the Sierra Club, and scores of other elites decided to demonize nuclear. Many of them to profit off of the oil business dealings they had (cough* cough* gov Brown), others because they nonsensically conflated nuclear energy with nuclear bombs during the Cold War (cough* cough* Jane Fonda types). And others (cough* cough* the Sierra club) wanted to continue their exploitation of 3rd world countries, because it’s easier to exploit poor people who remain poor by spending vast amounts of energy and money (and vast amount of environmental damage as well as carbon emissions) to cook their food and heat their homes using wood (set up for my next paragraph). It also helps when the philosophy of your little elite Sierra club is a Malthusian one, so fuck those poor people, amaright?

As I set up in the last paragraph......I mentioned wood even though it’s hardly used in 1st world countries. Not true for 3rd world countries. There’s this crazy idea out there that we can “leap frog” the 3rd world with renewable energies, and bypass coal and gas completely (set up for my 3rd paragraph). Absolutely absurd idea. The 1st world is struggling “renewable energy”. It is not reliable. So what winds up happening in these countries is that people just go back to using wood. Cutting down vast swaths of carbon scrubbing trees, destroying natural habitats, and oh yeah, dumping a hell of a lot more carbon into the atmosphere than they would if we accelerated their development with coal, then to gas, then to nuclear. Obviously I have no problem in helping them develop clean burning coal, clean burning gas, etc. It’s just a simple fact. The more developed your country is, the less emissions there are per person. It also follows that the less resources (physical, time, money, etc) people have to spend producing energy (I.e. cutting down trees, splitting wood, starting and keeping fires) the more time and energy they will have to be productive in other areas and become more prosperous. Having a reliable source of electricity is basically the #1 key on the road to prosperity, and consequently a reduction in carbon emissions.

What people are also not telling you is that not only is solar and wind severely unreliable, the battery/fuel cell tech is not there (never will be until the invention of super conductors), but also the production of fuel cells and panels (which eventually go bad 10 years at best) creates more emissions, and there is NO safe way to dispose of the extremely environmentally hazardous materials used to make them. There simply is no way to get around Isaac Newton’s laws. People think solar panels just sit there and the sun hits them and bam, energy. The sun itself does not boil water on its own (in most areas). Therefore you need to go through an energy costing process in order to get the photons from the sun to be transformed into usable energy. Not only do you need energy to do this, you also need extremely environmentally toxic chemicals to help boost this process. Both fuel cells and the solar panels themselves are made out of extremely toxic materials. Currently the strategy of nations “leading the way with renewable energy” is to pay 3rd world countries to have them take the fuel cell/panel waste to throw in a dump somewhere. And you can bet your bottom dollar they aren’t dumping it in a safe way. Basically, the net energy solar is producing is 2 steps backward to get 3 steps forward, AT BEST, as long as the panels last 10 years WITHOUT the use of fuel cell storage (which also goes bad). You simply cannot get around the laws of physics. Solar/wind is actually way more expensive for citizens. It is so unreliable, no sun, not enough wind, power plants have to stay fully staffed even when shut down, because they will have to continually power up and power back down. Mind you these are plants designed to run continuously, and the constant power-up power-down process is extremely energy inefficient. So, if you live in an area receiving energy from solar panels or wind, you’re paying for the same power plant you’ve been using before plus the solar/wind generators, plus the infrastructure between the renewable generators, plus the costly process (both in carbon emissions and dollars) of powering up and down continuously. As it turns out, our most “renewable” energy is water. Yes it requires energy to boil, but it goes up, comes back down, and we have plenty of it. This is why nuclear is by far the best option. Zero emissions to hear water, a fraction of a percentile of the current waste produced by solar, as well as a very easy and safe way to store it, and oh yeah did mention far less energy and land investment made into building a Nuclear plant. I almost forgot to mention the vast amounts of land needed for solar/wind just produce a fraction of what a standard power plant can produce. You know, land that would otherwise be used by those big green leafy things (the name escapes me) that actually absorb carbon and exhale oxygen. Land that’s also home to the little critters we value so much.

That is a lot of deluded gibberish.


I think I will go with the actual scientists on this one and the consensus is clear, we are warming the planet with carbon emissions.

You do not have to believe it, you do not have to believe in gravity either, but you still have to live with it.

Consensus isn't science, moron. It's politics.

We don't have to live with nutbag proposals to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Yes, there is a scientific consensus that gravity exists.

Now that is always up for challenge through empirical evidence if one can provide that evidence.

Such evidence does not exist.

The same applies to global warming.

Once again I refer you to actual scientists.

Scientific Consensus - NASA Science

It’s important to remember that scientists always focus on the evidence, not on opinions. Scientific evidence continues to show that human activities (primarily the human burning of fossil fuels) have warmed Earth’s surface and its ocean basins, which in turn have continued to impact Earth’s...

climate.nasa.gov

Sorry, but the argument for the existence of gravity hasn't changed in quite some time and there is no funny money behind it. There is a stark difference. Gravity is settled science, man made global warming is not.

Oh yes every international scientific body in the world is being bribed. Because as with gravity there is a scientific consensus on this issue.

NASA is being bribed.

Probably by the Secret Society of Spaghetti Monsters Against Fossil Fuels and Vaccines.

Fake News.

1. What are the testable statements they affirmed?
2. How was this affirmation communicated?
3. How many directly affirmed the statements in question 1?
4. How many total scientists are their in the world?

I am worn out, discussing science with you is like trying to discuss quantum physics with a gerbil that just emerged from Elton John's ass.

That's because your claim is fake news.

You claim that "97% of Scientists" agree on something, but you have no clue what the testable statement is that they all agree on, or even if the statement they agree on is testable.

You claim that "97%" agree, but you don't now how many scientists were actually asked, and you don't know what they were asked, and you don't know how these affirmative answers were conveyed.

Of course you find this exhausting, you are claiming great certainty about something that you actually have no information on.

Do you think all scientists were actually asked a particular question and then 97% of them gave the same answer? Were they called on the phone? Were they mailed a questionnaire?

These are simple questions and you haven't a clue, because the claim is fake news. I don't think you realized this before you tried to support it, so, you're welcome!

Fake News.

1. What are the testable statements they affirmed?
2. How was this affirmation communicated?
3. How many directly affirmed the statements in question 1?
4. How many total scientists are their in the world?

I am not concerned with googling for you or going down a rabbit hole of your irrational questioning.

Might as well ask how many wizards concur with global warming?

If you ever want to learn about it (and I know you don't) here is one is scientific explanation of the counted consensus.

The 97% consensus on global warming

 

[Zorro!]

Liberty is find, rejected scientific evidence or any source that does not tell you what you want to hear is not intellectual liberty however, it is mental slavery.

So, socialism just killed 120 million. It is by far the most evil idea in human history and yet Democrats embrace it. It that scientific thinking and plain pure stupidity??

Totolitarian communism killed more than that actually.

As raw, unregulated capitalism has mass killed as well. The trans Atlantic slave trade enslaved 10 million to 12 million and there are no reliable figures on how many died. The Irish potato famine occurred largely due to capitalist notions the market should sort it out and the state not provide mass aid. The list could go on and on as capitalist exploitation of global resources led to global colonialism in the 19th century which killed hundreds of million.

Extremes of any economic ideology kills.

Democratic social welfare states such as Norway or Denmark actually proved their people with a better overall standard of living than the USA.

give us an example of when "unregulated capitalism" mass killed.

Slavery is not a feature of capitalism, moron. Capitalism did not cause the Irish Potato famine. It was the British government that prevented the import of grain to Ireland. That has nothing to do with the free market.

You list is full of the typical bogus examples. When Gengis Khan wiped out entire nations, was that capitalism? Can you define precisely what you believe capitalism is?

I just did, slavery was totally based on capitalism, every historian on the planet will tell you that.

The Triangular Trade, which connected capitalist trading connections with the policy of capitalism. Indeed every aspect of capitalism drove the slave trade, from the rise of insurance to cover risk of the voyages and losses of dead slaves to stock markets which floated stocks in slave trading companies to credit extended with slaves as collateral.

Most of Thomas Jefferson's wealth was due to loans based on his slaves as colleterial.

No you didn't give an example, moron. capitalism is not compatible with slavery.

You are dismissed.

The Irish Potato Famine was directly caused by capitalist philosophy. The British government was being flooded with pleas to offer help, they refused because it violated their capitalist ideology government should not intervene in what they saw as a market rather than a humanitarian disaster.

One could go on and on through the evolution of capitalism.

The British government prevented Ireland from importing grain. A famine caused by government is not an example of capitalism.

You're a moron.

The slaughter of the Native American tribes was often driven by capitalist greed for land, either by individuals or capitalist organisations. The Black Hills were taken from the Native Americans not by the government, but by capitalist individuals and mining companies searching for gold against the government's objections for a time.

In the first place, there's no credible argument that native Americans owned the black hills. In the second place, you're blaming capitalism for government policy. Apparently, no matter what the government does, capitalism is to blame. That's a stupid argument.

And now we come to the biggie, global warming, which if we do nothing about it will end up killing hundreds of millions, that is directly caused by capitalist development of fossil fuels and the capitalist idea consumption and economies should ever grow.

Global warming is a hoax, If anything, fewer people will die if the global climate warms.

International Relief Efforts During the Famine - Irish America

The Irish government designated 17 May 2009 as the first National Famine Memorial Day. On that day, Irish people throughout the world remembered and honored the victims of Ireland’s Great […]

irishamerica.com

"Despite the shortages, the British government decided not to interfere in the marketplace to provide food to the poor Irish, but left food import and distribution to free market forces. Moreover, they allowed foodstuffs – vast amounts of foodstuffs – to be exported from Ireland. Merchants made large profits while people starved. "

That's a giant lie. The British government outlawed the import of cheap American grain.

You need to quit reading Marxist propaganda.

It is clear if you actually read historians and not just the voices in your mind, the British government did not provide relief because they believed market forces should sort it out and even allowed capitalist traders to make money exporting food away from Ireland.

They allowed the free market to make all the decisions and it caused mass death.

Now you can call historians liars because they are telling you something you do not want to know, but that does not make it any less a historical fact.

The Black Hills never belonged to the Lakota Souix?

Not according to the Fort Laramie Treaty between the United States and the Sioux Nation unambiguously recognized their ownership of the land. It is just capitalists Americans rushed in and ignored the treaty to get gold, against the wishes of the US government.

Climate Change a hoax.

So is gravity I suppose or the Moon landing?

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

climate change is a hoax in the sense that silly communists and socialists in America are making you believe that if you drive a Prius it will make a difference while China and India are adding tremendously to the net carbon content of the atmosphere every day and will continue to do so for decades to come. If it is real the solution is Geo engineering not battery powered cars.

Yes the moon landing was a hoax and 5G towers will control your mind and vaccines are mind control drugs.

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

You mean some political hacks in NASA believe in it. As a space agency, Nasa political hacks make great climate scientists.

No that is the official position of the agency as well as most scientists (though not all) in the entire world.

I am sure you can find a few meth addles scientists who disagree.

Science doesn't have anything to do with "official positions." That's politics, not science.

Plenty of real scientists disgree. NASA bureaucrats are not scientists.

You do know NASA has scientists in it?

They put a man on the moon, not the PR guy announcing how they did it.

Jesus American education has totally collapsed since I left.

And you have never won a war since I left.

My leaving was a tragedy for America.

Because Australians have been winning wars left and right, and inventing shit left and right... We had to bail your dingo asses out with a crippled navy from the Japanese. while bailing out your brothers across the pond from the nazis, all while bailing out the soviets with weapons and equipment. How many countries are you protecting with your aircraft carriers...oh wait you have none. Y’all can’t even protect your tourist from crocodiles. Oh yeah, let’s not forget, you can count the war against ISIS, the only terrorist organization to take and hold mass swathes of land and operate as a country, as a win for the US. We’re the only ones holding China and Russia at bay The only ones to actually do something when assholes use chemical weapons against civilian pops. Name me something Australia has done or stop talking shit, go back to your stupid island, and get bit by your stupid trap door spiders, and die of priapism

Well America has not been able to win the last two wars, and then there is Vietnam.

Still we are a small nation, we will never be a global power but we do like our global power of choice to be competent, and America is not at the moment.

As to WWII we were fighting in World War Two while Americans were hiding behind two oceans pretending it had nothing to do with the USA.

Pearl Harbour woke you up from that cowardly dream.

And Australians are the first nation in World War Two to have a victory over Japanese forces in a land battle at Kokoda.

Fake News.

The Japanese had advanced to within sight of Port Moresby but withdrew on 26 September. They had outrun their supply line and had been ordered to withdraw in consequence of reverses suffered at Guadalcanal where US Marines were kicking their asses.

16 November, 1942, two brigades of the Australian 7th Division had crossed the Kumusi River at Wairopi, and advanced on the Japanese beachheads in a joint Australian and United States operation. So you are bad-mouthing us when we were fighting shoulder to shoulder with you and together we were prevailing.

I think you mean fake history.

Of course America was the critical power in that war.

Yes, and we greatly value our fighting Aussie Allies who have fought shoulder to shoulder with us. You do not speak for America, or for the Aussies.

... It is just the present generation of Americans are not up to the level of that Greatest Generation.

You are not even close...

Fake News. We are better. When we entered WWII, Japan was battle hardened and we were not. Much of their equipment was superior and they were better at using it. Today there is no force on the face of the earth that can make that claim about US forces or equipment.

Of course, I speak for myself.


But I live in Australia, a wise nation sees how the are viewed in the world at large.

After going into two disastrous wars with America, Afghanistan and Iraq, the latter which was one of the most incompetently executed in American history, later observing the profanity and gross behaviour of President Trump (polls of Australians reveal most want Biden to win) and witnessing the total incompetence of Americas pandemic response, most Australians do not admire present day America.


Even if they do like the saner, less ever angry, Americans among you.

And yet

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

One of these days, I am going to have to give a fuck about all this.

Sunny I like you.

Word of advise, buy some property at Florida's highest point, Britton Hill.

It will be beach front some day.

Maybe even an island?

The oceans have been rising for 20,000 years, and the current rate of rise is 1/2 the 20,000 year rate. True or False?

Yes here is why.

" Now, however, sea level is on the rise again, rising faster now than it has in the past 6,000 years. The oldest tide gauges and coastal sediment preserved beneath swamps and marshes show that sea level began to rise around 1850, which is right around the time people started burning coal to propel steam engine trains, and it hasn't stopped since. The climate likely started warming as a part of a natural cycle, but the accelerated warming in the last two hundred years or so is due to a rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide. The resulting rise in sea level is likely twice what we would have seen without the increase in greenhouse gasses due to human activities."

Sea Level Rise

ocean.si.edu

.

"

Fake News. We are better. When we entered WWII, Japan was battle hardened and we were not. Much of their equipment was superior and they were better at using it. Today there is no force on the face of the earth that can make that claim about US forces or equipment.

I wouldn't say that on a general basis. We were behind the Japanese in tactics, but our equipment was equal or better than theirs. The Japanese zero was nicknamed the "Ronson" after the cigarette lighter, as the P-47's while unable to out turn them, were faster, packed a bigger punch, and had self sealing gas tanks.

We sure as hell were better after we got up to speed, and our women, manning the war factories, certainly out produced them. They underestimated us, miscalculated, and it was the end of their empire. Same with Germany, USSR, Iraq, ISIS, OBL and Qasem Soleimani.

I can agree with most of that list except Iraq.

That was a disaster,

It was.

... the US ignited a sectarian war with no occupation plans what so ever resulting in much of the world doubting US political-military competence as Iran now has as much influence over that country as US influence fades.

Fake News. Trump's growing Arab/Israeli Axis looks more powerful than the Turkish led faction and/or the Iran led faction.

Iraq needs to make a decision regarding Iran. They have religious ties in that they are both Sunni, but, they also know full well that Persians regard them, Arabs, as 2nd class citizens.

ISIS doesn't doubt our military might. No one with a brain does. Conquering a country and turning them into an Ali is a low percentage game no matter who attempts it. What I found amazing was that so soon after Bush utterly failed in Iraq, Obama and his collection of clowns tried it in Libya, tried to turn Egypt over to the Moslem Brotherhood and never really explained what in the world they were trying to do in Syria, but you seem to cover this all up with smiley faces.

Trump has ISIS whipped, and is bringing our troops home. That seems to be a real problem for the warmongers. You need to pick better friends.

To the the contrary, the goal of the Iraq War was to expel Saddam, that was easy because the Iraqi army largely did not fight to save him and then see a democratic Iraq rise that would be a blueprint for the region.

Instead the lack of US occupational planning, and the disastrous move by Bremmer to disband an Iraqi army that actually approached the US to help with order issues created instant insurgency.

Indeed it created ISIS.

The US created ISIS.

Now defeating ISIS started before Trump came to office with the Obama administration, who were slow on this, giving the Syrian Kurds a lot of military aid and then direct US battle support. That combined with Russia intervening on behalf of Assad and Iran giving ever more aid and even paramilitary units to the Shia dominated Iraqi government saw ISIS start to lose ground.

After ISIS was defeated during the Trump administration what did he do, he betrayed our Kurdish allies which much of the world noticed and left them to the mercy of Turkey, Assad and Russia.

Now after a decade of war and a lot of blood and treasure lost in Iraq the US has little influence.

Obama created ISIS, fool. It didn't exist when Bush was in office.

I love the way you douchebags find a way to blame everything on Republicans.

Trump campaigned on getting our people out of the Middle East, not sending more in.

So what was thiss great atrocity that was inflicted on the Kurds? I don't recall reading anything about it.

Yup. It was all fake news. Kurds are as good as they ever were.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

Liberty is find, rejected scientific evidence or any source that does not tell you what you want to hear is not intellectual liberty however, it is mental slavery.

So, socialism just killed 120 million. It is by far the most evil idea in human history and yet Democrats embrace it. It that scientific thinking and plain pure stupidity??

Totolitarian communism killed more than that actually.

As raw, unregulated capitalism has mass killed as well. The trans Atlantic slave trade enslaved 10 million to 12 million and there are no reliable figures on how many died. The Irish potato famine occurred largely due to capitalist notions the market should sort it out and the state not provide mass aid. The list could go on and on as capitalist exploitation of global resources led to global colonialism in the 19th century which killed hundreds of million.

Extremes of any economic ideology kills.

Democratic social welfare states such as Norway or Denmark actually proved their people with a better overall standard of living than the USA.

give us an example of when "unregulated capitalism" mass killed.

Slavery is not a feature of capitalism, moron. Capitalism did not cause the Irish Potato famine. It was the British government that prevented the import of grain to Ireland. That has nothing to do with the free market.

You list is full of the typical bogus examples. When Gengis Khan wiped out entire nations, was that capitalism? Can you define precisely what you believe capitalism is?

I just did, slavery was totally based on capitalism, every historian on the planet will tell you that.

The Triangular Trade, which connected capitalist trading connections with the policy of capitalism. Indeed every aspect of capitalism drove the slave trade, from the rise of insurance to cover risk of the voyages and losses of dead slaves to stock markets which floated stocks in slave trading companies to credit extended with slaves as collateral.

Most of Thomas Jefferson's wealth was due to loans based on his slaves as colleterial.

No you didn't give an example, moron. capitalism is not compatible with slavery.

You are dismissed.

The Irish Potato Famine was directly caused by capitalist philosophy. The British government was being flooded with pleas to offer help, they refused because it violated their capitalist ideology government should not intervene in what they saw as a market rather than a humanitarian disaster.

One could go on and on through the evolution of capitalism.

The British government prevented Ireland from importing grain. A famine caused by government is not an example of capitalism.

You're a moron.

The slaughter of the Native American tribes was often driven by capitalist greed for land, either by individuals or capitalist organisations. The Black Hills were taken from the Native Americans not by the government, but by capitalist individuals and mining companies searching for gold against the government's objections for a time.

In the first place, there's no credible argument that native Americans owned the black hills. In the second place, you're blaming capitalism for government policy. Apparently, no matter what the government does, capitalism is to blame. That's a stupid argument.

And now we come to the biggie, global warming, which if we do nothing about it will end up killing hundreds of millions, that is directly caused by capitalist development of fossil fuels and the capitalist idea consumption and economies should ever grow.

Global warming is a hoax, If anything, fewer people will die if the global climate warms.

International Relief Efforts During the Famine - Irish America

The Irish government designated 17 May 2009 as the first National Famine Memorial Day. On that day, Irish people throughout the world remembered and honored the victims of Ireland’s Great […]

irishamerica.com

"Despite the shortages, the British government decided not to interfere in the marketplace to provide food to the poor Irish, but left food import and distribution to free market forces. Moreover, they allowed foodstuffs – vast amounts of foodstuffs – to be exported from Ireland. Merchants made large profits while people starved. "

That's a giant lie. The British government outlawed the import of cheap American grain.

You need to quit reading Marxist propaganda.

It is clear if you actually read historians and not just the voices in your mind, the British government did not provide relief because they believed market forces should sort it out and even allowed capitalist traders to make money exporting food away from Ireland.

They allowed the free market to make all the decisions and it caused mass death.

Now you can call historians liars because they are telling you something you do not want to know, but that does not make it any less a historical fact.

The Black Hills never belonged to the Lakota Souix?

Not according to the Fort Laramie Treaty between the United States and the Sioux Nation unambiguously recognized their ownership of the land. It is just capitalists Americans rushed in and ignored the treaty to get gold, against the wishes of the US government.

Climate Change a hoax.

So is gravity I suppose or the Moon landing?

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

climate change is a hoax in the sense that silly communists and socialists in America are making you believe that if you drive a Prius it will make a difference while China and India are adding tremendously to the net carbon content of the atmosphere every day and will continue to do so for decades to come. If it is real the solution is Geo engineering not battery powered cars.

Yes the moon landing was a hoax and 5G towers will control your mind and vaccines are mind control drugs.

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

You mean some political hacks in NASA believe in it. As a space agency, Nasa political hacks make great climate scientists.

No that is the official position of the agency as well as most scientists (though not all) in the entire world.

I am sure you can find a few meth addles scientists who disagree.

Science doesn't have anything to do with "official positions." That's politics, not science.

Plenty of real scientists disgree. NASA bureaucrats are not scientists.

You do know NASA has scientists in it?

They put a man on the moon, not the PR guy announcing how they did it.

Jesus American education has totally collapsed since I left.

And you have never won a war since I left.

My leaving was a tragedy for America.

Because Australians have been winning wars left and right, and inventing shit left and right... We had to bail your dingo asses out with a crippled navy from the Japanese. while bailing out your brothers across the pond from the nazis, all while bailing out the soviets with weapons and equipment. How many countries are you protecting with your aircraft carriers...oh wait you have none. Y’all can’t even protect your tourist from crocodiles. Oh yeah, let’s not forget, you can count the war against ISIS, the only terrorist organization to take and hold mass swathes of land and operate as a country, as a win for the US. We’re the only ones holding China and Russia at bay The only ones to actually do something when assholes use chemical weapons against civilian pops. Name me something Australia has done or stop talking shit, go back to your stupid island, and get bit by your stupid trap door spiders, and die of priapism

Well America has not been able to win the last two wars, and then there is Vietnam.

Still we are a small nation, we will never be a global power but we do like our global power of choice to be competent, and America is not at the moment.

As to WWII we were fighting in World War Two while Americans were hiding behind two oceans pretending it had nothing to do with the USA.

Pearl Harbour woke you up from that cowardly dream.

And Australians are the first nation in World War Two to have a victory over Japanese forces in a land battle at Kokoda.

Fake News.

The Japanese had advanced to within sight of Port Moresby but withdrew on 26 September. They had outrun their supply line and had been ordered to withdraw in consequence of reverses suffered at Guadalcanal where US Marines were kicking their asses.

16 November, 1942, two brigades of the Australian 7th Division had crossed the Kumusi River at Wairopi, and advanced on the Japanese beachheads in a joint Australian and United States operation. So you are bad-mouthing us when we were fighting shoulder to shoulder with you and together we were prevailing.

I think you mean fake history.

Of course America was the critical power in that war.

Yes, and we greatly value our fighting Aussie Allies who have fought shoulder to shoulder with us. You do not speak for America, or for the Aussies.

... It is just the present generation of Americans are not up to the level of that Greatest Generation.

You are not even close...

Fake News. We are better. When we entered WWII, Japan was battle hardened and we were not. Much of their equipment was superior and they were better at using it. Today there is no force on the face of the earth that can make that claim about US forces or equipment.

Of course, I speak for myself.


But I live in Australia, a wise nation sees how the are viewed in the world at large.

After going into two disastrous wars with America, Afghanistan and Iraq, the latter which was one of the most incompetently executed in American history, later observing the profanity and gross behaviour of President Trump (polls of Australians reveal most want Biden to win) and witnessing the total incompetence of Americas pandemic response, most Australians do not admire present day America.


Even if they do like the saner, less ever angry, Americans among you.

And yet

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

One of these days, I am going to have to give a fuck about all this.

Sunny I like you.

Word of advise, buy some property at Florida's highest point, Britton Hill.

It will be beach front some day.

Maybe even an island?

The oceans have been rising for 20,000 years, and the current rate of rise is 1/2 the 20,000 year rate. True or False?

Yes here is why.

" Now, however, sea level is on the rise again, rising faster now than it has in the past 6,000 years. The oldest tide gauges and coastal sediment preserved beneath swamps and marshes show that sea level began to rise around 1850, which is right around the time people started burning coal to propel steam engine trains, and it hasn't stopped since. The climate likely started warming as a part of a natural cycle, but the accelerated warming in the last two hundred years or so is due to a rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide. The resulting rise in sea level is likely twice what we would have seen without the increase in greenhouse gasses due to human activities."

Sea Level Rise

ocean.si.edu

.

"

Fake News. We are better. When we entered WWII, Japan was battle hardened and we were not. Much of their equipment was superior and they were better at using it. Today there is no force on the face of the earth that can make that claim about US forces or equipment.

I wouldn't say that on a general basis. We were behind the Japanese in tactics, but our equipment was equal or better than theirs. The Japanese zero was nicknamed the "Ronson" after the cigarette lighter, as the P-47's while unable to out turn them, were faster, packed a bigger punch, and had self sealing gas tanks.

We sure as hell were better after we got up to speed, and our women, manning the war factories, certainly out produced them. They underestimated us, miscalculated, and it was the end of their empire. Same with Germany, USSR, Iraq, ISIS, OBL and Qasem Soleimani.

I can agree with most of that list except Iraq.

That was a disaster,

It was.

... the US ignited a sectarian war with no occupation plans what so ever resulting in much of the world doubting US political-military competence as Iran now has as much influence over that country as US influence fades.

Fake News. Trump's growing Arab/Israeli Axis looks more powerful than the Turkish led faction and/or the Iran led faction.

Iraq needs to make a decision regarding Iran. They have religious ties in that they are both Sunni, but, they also know full well that Persians regard them, Arabs, as 2nd class citizens.

ISIS doesn't doubt our military might. No one with a brain does. Conquering a country and turning them into an Ali is a low percentage game no matter who attempts it. What I found amazing was that so soon after Bush utterly failed in Iraq, Obama and his collection of clowns tried it in Libya, tried to turn Egypt over to the Moslem Brotherhood and never really explained what in the world they were trying to do in Syria, but you seem to cover this all up with smiley faces.

Trump has ISIS whipped, and is bringing our troops home. That seems to be a real problem for the warmongers. You need to pick better friends.

To the the contrary, the goal of the Iraq War was to expel Saddam, that was easy because the Iraqi army largely did not fight to save him and then see a democratic Iraq rise that would be a blueprint for the region.

Instead the lack of US occupational planning, and the disastrous move by Bremmer to disband an Iraqi army that actually approached the US to help with order issues created instant insurgency.

Indeed it created ISIS.

The US created ISIS.

Now defeating ISIS started before Trump came to office with the Obama administration, who were slow on this, giving the Syrian Kurds a lot of military aid and then direct US battle support. That combined with Russia intervening on behalf of Assad and Iran giving ever more aid and even paramilitary units to the Shia dominated Iraqi government saw ISIS start to lose ground.

After ISIS was defeated during the Trump administration what did he do, he betrayed our Kurdish allies which much of the world noticed and left them to the mercy of Turkey, Assad and Russia.

Now after a decade of war and a lot of blood and treasure lost in Iraq the US has little influence.

Obama created ISIS, fool. It didn't exist when Bush was in office.

I love the way you douchebags find a way to blame everything on Republicans.

Trump campaigned on getting our people out of the Middle East, not sending more in.

So what was thiss great atrocity that was inflicted on the Kurds? I don't recall reading anything about it.

Yup. It was all fake news. Kurds are as good as they ever were.

You really need to expand your vocabulary.

Chanting "fake news" is not making a point.

As for the Syrian Kurds, I will take their word for how they feel about Trump's betrayal over yours.

Most of all over Trump's as he probably does not even know who the Kurds are.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

Liberty is find, rejected scientific evidence or any source that does not tell you what you want to hear is not intellectual liberty however, it is mental slavery.

So, socialism just killed 120 million. It is by far the most evil idea in human history and yet Democrats embrace it. It that scientific thinking and plain pure stupidity??

Totolitarian communism killed more than that actually.

As raw, unregulated capitalism has mass killed as well. The trans Atlantic slave trade enslaved 10 million to 12 million and there are no reliable figures on how many died. The Irish potato famine occurred largely due to capitalist notions the market should sort it out and the state not provide mass aid. The list could go on and on as capitalist exploitation of global resources led to global colonialism in the 19th century which killed hundreds of million.

Extremes of any economic ideology kills.

Democratic social welfare states such as Norway or Denmark actually proved their people with a better overall standard of living than the USA.

give us an example of when "unregulated capitalism" mass killed.

Slavery is not a feature of capitalism, moron. Capitalism did not cause the Irish Potato famine. It was the British government that prevented the import of grain to Ireland. That has nothing to do with the free market.

You list is full of the typical bogus examples. When Gengis Khan wiped out entire nations, was that capitalism? Can you define precisely what you believe capitalism is?

I just did, slavery was totally based on capitalism, every historian on the planet will tell you that.

The Triangular Trade, which connected capitalist trading connections with the policy of capitalism. Indeed every aspect of capitalism drove the slave trade, from the rise of insurance to cover risk of the voyages and losses of dead slaves to stock markets which floated stocks in slave trading companies to credit extended with slaves as collateral.

Most of Thomas Jefferson's wealth was due to loans based on his slaves as colleterial.

No you didn't give an example, moron. capitalism is not compatible with slavery.

You are dismissed.

The Irish Potato Famine was directly caused by capitalist philosophy. The British government was being flooded with pleas to offer help, they refused because it violated their capitalist ideology government should not intervene in what they saw as a market rather than a humanitarian disaster.

One could go on and on through the evolution of capitalism.

The British government prevented Ireland from importing grain. A famine caused by government is not an example of capitalism.

You're a moron.

The slaughter of the Native American tribes was often driven by capitalist greed for land, either by individuals or capitalist organisations. The Black Hills were taken from the Native Americans not by the government, but by capitalist individuals and mining companies searching for gold against the government's objections for a time.

In the first place, there's no credible argument that native Americans owned the black hills. In the second place, you're blaming capitalism for government policy. Apparently, no matter what the government does, capitalism is to blame. That's a stupid argument.

And now we come to the biggie, global warming, which if we do nothing about it will end up killing hundreds of millions, that is directly caused by capitalist development of fossil fuels and the capitalist idea consumption and economies should ever grow.

Global warming is a hoax, If anything, fewer people will die if the global climate warms.

International Relief Efforts During the Famine - Irish America

The Irish government designated 17 May 2009 as the first National Famine Memorial Day. On that day, Irish people throughout the world remembered and honored the victims of Ireland’s Great […]

irishamerica.com

"Despite the shortages, the British government decided not to interfere in the marketplace to provide food to the poor Irish, but left food import and distribution to free market forces. Moreover, they allowed foodstuffs – vast amounts of foodstuffs – to be exported from Ireland. Merchants made large profits while people starved. "

That's a giant lie. The British government outlawed the import of cheap American grain.

You need to quit reading Marxist propaganda.

It is clear if you actually read historians and not just the voices in your mind, the British government did not provide relief because they believed market forces should sort it out and even allowed capitalist traders to make money exporting food away from Ireland.

They allowed the free market to make all the decisions and it caused mass death.

Now you can call historians liars because they are telling you something you do not want to know, but that does not make it any less a historical fact.

The Black Hills never belonged to the Lakota Souix?

Not according to the Fort Laramie Treaty between the United States and the Sioux Nation unambiguously recognized their ownership of the land. It is just capitalists Americans rushed in and ignored the treaty to get gold, against the wishes of the US government.

Climate Change a hoax.

So is gravity I suppose or the Moon landing?

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

climate change is a hoax in the sense that silly communists and socialists in America are making you believe that if you drive a Prius it will make a difference while China and India are adding tremendously to the net carbon content of the atmosphere every day and will continue to do so for decades to come. If it is real the solution is Geo engineering not battery powered cars.

Yes the moon landing was a hoax and 5G towers will control your mind and vaccines are mind control drugs.

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

You mean some political hacks in NASA believe in it. As a space agency, Nasa political hacks make great climate scientists.

No that is the official position of the agency as well as most scientists (though not all) in the entire world.

I am sure you can find a few meth addles scientists who disagree.

Science doesn't have anything to do with "official positions." That's politics, not science.

Plenty of real scientists disgree. NASA bureaucrats are not scientists.

You do know NASA has scientists in it?

They put a man on the moon, not the PR guy announcing how they did it.

Jesus American education has totally collapsed since I left.

And you have never won a war since I left.

My leaving was a tragedy for America.

Because Australians have been winning wars left and right, and inventing shit left and right... We had to bail your dingo asses out with a crippled navy from the Japanese. while bailing out your brothers across the pond from the nazis, all while bailing out the soviets with weapons and equipment. How many countries are you protecting with your aircraft carriers...oh wait you have none. Y’all can’t even protect your tourist from crocodiles. Oh yeah, let’s not forget, you can count the war against ISIS, the only terrorist organization to take and hold mass swathes of land and operate as a country, as a win for the US. We’re the only ones holding China and Russia at bay The only ones to actually do something when assholes use chemical weapons against civilian pops. Name me something Australia has done or stop talking shit, go back to your stupid island, and get bit by your stupid trap door spiders, and die of priapism

Well America has not been able to win the last two wars, and then there is Vietnam.

Still we are a small nation, we will never be a global power but we do like our global power of choice to be competent, and America is not at the moment.

As to WWII we were fighting in World War Two while Americans were hiding behind two oceans pretending it had nothing to do with the USA.

Pearl Harbour woke you up from that cowardly dream.

And Australians are the first nation in World War Two to have a victory over Japanese forces in a land battle at Kokoda.

Fake News.

The Japanese had advanced to within sight of Port Moresby but withdrew on 26 September. They had outrun their supply line and had been ordered to withdraw in consequence of reverses suffered at Guadalcanal where US Marines were kicking their asses.

16 November, 1942, two brigades of the Australian 7th Division had crossed the Kumusi River at Wairopi, and advanced on the Japanese beachheads in a joint Australian and United States operation. So you are bad-mouthing us when we were fighting shoulder to shoulder with you and together we were prevailing.

I think you mean fake history.

Of course America was the critical power in that war.

Yes, and we greatly value our fighting Aussie Allies who have fought shoulder to shoulder with us. You do not speak for America, or for the Aussies.

... It is just the present generation of Americans are not up to the level of that Greatest Generation.

You are not even close...

Fake News. We are better. When we entered WWII, Japan was battle hardened and we were not. Much of their equipment was superior and they were better at using it. Today there is no force on the face of the earth that can make that claim about US forces or equipment.

Of course, I speak for myself.


But I live in Australia, a wise nation sees how the are viewed in the world at large.

After going into two disastrous wars with America, Afghanistan and Iraq, the latter which was one of the most incompetently executed in American history, later observing the profanity and gross behaviour of President Trump (polls of Australians reveal most want Biden to win) and witnessing the total incompetence of Americas pandemic response, most Australians do not admire present day America.


Even if they do like the saner, less ever angry, Americans among you.

And yet

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Facts? The only thing you threw out was Vox bullshit.

I understand, the cult of Trump only believes anything Trump says, nothing else.

All cults work this way.

You sound as if you are involved in the cult of the bubble.
A real true believer.

Though only thing I believe in is scientific method, blue skies and cold Australian beer, the rest is just an opinion.

You believe in global warming, so you don't believe in the scientific method.

Yes I do and so does NASA.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in a long term cooling trend for 6,000 years, True or False?

The Holocene climate was warming and actually proves our current warming in large part iscaused by humans. The warming 6,000 years ago was caused by Earth orbital changes which are currently not occurring or causing such rapid warming.

This is actually more evidence of human caused global warming in our time.

Mid-Holocene Warm Period – About 6,000 Years Ago | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

Paleoclimatologists have long suspected that the "middle Holocene," roughly from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, was warmer than the present day.

www.ncdc.noaa.gov

" Moreover, we clearly know the cause of this natural warming, and we know without doubt that this proven "astronomical" climate forcing mechanism cannot be responsible for the warming over the last 100 years."

Here is a basic primer on why previous climate changes are not proof this climate change is not man made, rather proof it is.



"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD. But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions."

What does past climate change tell us about global warming?

Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...

skepticalscience.com

That's pure bunk. We have no idea what temperature fluctuations were like 6000 years ago. The granularity of our records is measured in hundreds of years. You can't legitimately claim our temperatures have departed from anything. There is nothing unusual about our current warming.

I quote the link below again.

"The Earth was indeed cooling over the last 6,000 years due to Earth's orbit, heading into the next glacial phase scheduled for about the year 3500 AD....

Fake news. There was no "scheduled date" for the next glacial advance.

... But all that changed when we got to the industrial era. Global temperatures departed from that cooling trend, and instead rose parallel with our greenhouse gas emissions. "...

Fake News, temperatures began recovering at the end of the little ice age, and with warming temperatures, we get rising CO^2 levels, and earth's processes convert some of the excess CO^2 into living cells.

... We should be in a cooling period...

We are cooler than we were 5,000 years ago.

... denilist cheery....

No. The last interglacial lasted about 15,000 years, and we are pacing fairly consistently with that. Everything is as expected.

... Climate change denial has all the hallmarks of faith or religion, it only sees what it wants to see....

You are the one promoting a Doomsday Cult, I'm just pointing out that the evidence doesn't support your claims, which is the way with doomsday cults. They point to a date when the world is supposed to end, and then they are disappointed when the date passes uneventfully.

Your fake news is faker than the fake news you think is fake news.

The science is clear if you could understand it, the oribital causes of climate change was seeing us going into a cooling period well into the next thousand years but the carbon released from the industrial revolution changed all that.


I think I will trust the majority of climate scientists and NASA before I will trust a cult member always chanting "fake news" when confronted with scientific information they simply do not want to believe.

One of these days, I am going to have to give a fuck about all this.

Sunny I like you.

Word of advise, buy some property at Florida's highest point, Britton Hill.

It will be beach front some day.

Maybe even an island?

The oceans have been rising for 20,000 years, and the current rate of rise is 1/2 the 20,000 year rate. True or False?

Yes here is why.

" Now, however, sea level is on the rise again, rising faster now than it has in the past 6,000 years. The oldest tide gauges and coastal sediment preserved beneath swamps and marshes show that sea level began to rise around 1850, which is right around the time people started burning coal to propel steam engine trains, and it hasn't stopped since. The climate likely started warming as a part of a natural cycle, but the accelerated warming in the last two hundred years or so is due to a rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide. The resulting rise in sea level is likely twice what we would have seen without the increase in greenhouse gasses due to human activities."

Sea Level Rise

ocean.si.edu

.

"

Fake News. We are better. When we entered WWII, Japan was battle hardened and we were not. Much of their equipment was superior and they were better at using it. Today there is no force on the face of the earth that can make that claim about US forces or equipment.

I wouldn't say that on a general basis. We were behind the Japanese in tactics, but our equipment was equal or better than theirs. The Japanese zero was nicknamed the "Ronson" after the cigarette lighter, as the P-47's while unable to out turn them, were faster, packed a bigger punch, and had self sealing gas tanks.

We sure as hell were better after we got up to speed, and our women, manning the war factories, certainly out produced them. They underestimated us, miscalculated, and it was the end of their empire. Same with Germany, USSR, Iraq, ISIS, OBL and Qasem Soleimani.

I can agree with most of that list except Iraq.

That was a disaster,

It was.

... the US ignited a sectarian war with no occupation plans what so ever resulting in much of the world doubting US political-military competence as Iran now has as much influence over that country as US influence fades.

Fake News. Trump's growing Arab/Israeli Axis looks more powerful than the Turkish led faction and/or the Iran led faction.

Iraq needs to make a decision regarding Iran. They have religious ties in that they are both Sunni, but, they also know full well that Persians regard them, Arabs, as 2nd class citizens.

ISIS doesn't doubt our military might. No one with a brain does. Conquering a country and turning them into an Ali is a low percentage game no matter who attempts it. What I found amazing was that so soon after Bush utterly failed in Iraq, Obama and his collection of clowns tried it in Libya, tried to turn Egypt over to the Moslem Brotherhood and never really explained what in the world they were trying to do in Syria, but you seem to cover this all up with smiley faces.

Trump has ISIS whipped, and is bringing our troops home. That seems to be a real problem for the warmongers. You need to pick better friends.

To the the contrary, the goal of the Iraq War was to expel Saddam, that was easy because the Iraqi army largely did not fight to save him and then see a democratic Iraq rise that would be a blueprint for the region.

Instead the lack of US occupational planning, and the disastrous move by Bremmer to disband an Iraqi army that actually approached the US to help with order issues created instant insurgency.

Indeed it created ISIS.

The US created ISIS.

Now defeating ISIS started before Trump came to office with the Obama administration, who were slow on this, giving the Syrian Kurds a lot of military aid and then direct US battle support. That combined with Russia intervening on behalf of Assad and Iran giving ever more aid and even paramilitary units to the Shia dominated Iraqi government saw ISIS start to lose ground.

After ISIS was defeated during the Trump administration what did he do, he betrayed our Kurdish allies which much of the world noticed and left them to the mercy of Turkey, Assad and Russia.

Now after a decade of war and a lot of blood and treasure lost in Iraq the US has little influence.

Obama created ISIS, fool. It didn't exist when Bush was in office.

I love the way you douchebags find a way to blame everything on Republicans.

Trump campaigned on getting our people out of the Middle East, not sending more in.

So what was thiss great atrocity that was inflicted on the Kurds? I don't recall reading anything about it.

Yup. It was all fake news. Kurds are as good as they ever were.

You really need to expand your vocabulary.

Chanting "fake news" is not making a point.

As for the Syrian Kurds, I will take their word for how they feel about Trump's betrayal over yours.

Most of all over Trump's as he probably does not even know who the Kurds are.

And it was not just the Syrian Kurds furious over Trump's cowardly betrayal, even many Republicans were.

Republicans Are Actually Furious Over Trump Abandoning Kurds in Syria

Turkey will be deploying troops to Syria—and there just so happens to be a Trump Tower in Istanbul.

www.gq.com

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Yes 97% of the world's climate scientists are being bribed.

Agreed! The bribes are called "funding" from universities, government agencies and NGOs.

And if you contradict the approved "wisdom" they represent you will wind up like Galileo, who disagreed with the Pope and the consensus of "experts" of his day when Galileo said we live in a solar-centric universe (not earth-centric) and the Pope called that heresy.
Galileo had his funding pulled.



,

 

[charwin95]

O

And that of course would be the case through out the world, so we can still rationally compare outcomes and Germany's outcome is much better than America's.

NO. That is NOT the case throughout the world unless the CDC is now managing the health of the entire planet.
The subject is how the CDC inflated deaths in the US by attributing all deaths to the Chinese originated
covid virus if the virus was present at all. So much so that the CDC was pressured into changing that policy.

Nevertheless that policy was in place for months and the US death toll remains inflated and uncorrected
and you remain disingenuous.

All countries are using that methodology, they have an "excess death mythology" as defined as " A range of estimates for the number of excess deaths was calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound threshold), by week and jurisdiction. Negative values, where the observed count fell below the threshold, were set to zero."

And the method of if one did not have a prognosis of death within the year and contracted COVID it is counted across the globe as a Covid related death.

There is no world health body, or American for that matter, which believes the USA is doing well in this pandemic.

Just wishing Americans were not dropping like flies by playing semantics with the numbers is not going to save any American lives.

America is far from the worst record when it comes to covid deaths and far from the best.
I know it serves your agenda to state otherwise, however. Saying we are "dropping like flies" is disingenuous and misleading and it won't win Joe the election you so desperately want.
Nothing will including all the post election chaos and disorder the left has planned.


As things stand right now we will have a covid vaccine soon and society will begin to come out of
politicized lockdown box leftist swine has tried to keep us in.

Joe Biden and all the Karens can wear their little masks all day long, if it thrills them to do so.

Only Spain in Europe has a worse death per 100K rate right now.

As in the chart I have provided in this thread many times.

Just to be clear....

There are other countries...just not in Europe....that have worse rates.

Also, we pay our hospitals more for treating COVID, so anyone who dies, that has COVID is listed as a "COVID" death, whereas in most countries unless COVID is actually what caused your death, your cause of death is not listed as COVID. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Medical stats from country to country are NEVER an apples-to-apples comparison, because they don't compile ANY medical stats the same way we do. How many times have we heard the canard that infant mortality in the US is so much worse than the rest of the world, only to find out that it's largely because other countries simply don't count children who die in the first week of life as ever having existed at all?

On COVID the death rates per 100k most developed nations are using the same method, indeed it is the USA that most world health bodies are concerned are vastly under reporting due to your fragment health care system run by 50 different states. Some estimates are that the USA is under reporting by 33%.

You mean our health care system that bodies the DHSC for legit life threatening diseases like cancer. Our health care system where you can actually get the surgery you need within a week. Our healthcare system that the rest of the world, except Switzerland, has been leaching off of our innovation and the tens of billions we drop into R+D every year. That healthcare system? Y’all treat the healthy for dumb shit like broken arms and infections, while taxing the fuck out of your citizens and pretend like you’re hero’s for doing so. Meanwhile Canada sends all their cancer patients TO ME, to get the very best treatment that WE develop, and then pay for it. Your nurses and doctors are garbage. When y’all can start actually saving your cancer patients and stop sending them to me, and actually preform surgeries on things like joint replacements that aren’t outdated 30 years, when your hospitals have as many top of the line critical care beds as ours do, when you actually do your part in the world and start developing drugs, procedures, and technologies...then you can lecture us on our healthcare.

Me and my wife both work in one of the largest hospitals right next to the covid epicenter. We’re over reporting. 100%. Notice how the flu has effectively disappeared? In this current “spike”, we have 6 covid patients who are actually suffering from covid, among other things.

Australia has similar wait times as the USA, in fact shorter wait times for GP visits, yet gets far better results in every macro category except breast cancer treatment, and even there we are just behind the USA.

All at much cheaper cost.

BECUASE YOU SEND YOUR WORST CANCER PATIENTS TO US TO FIX. Ipso facto, y’all fucks don’t take the hit in death rates. We take on the worst cases, and still have a better death rate than all of y’all. Turns out, it’s pretty easy to take care of healthy people. In Europe they go to Switzerland. What’s the last medical innovation that came out of Australia? At least the French have Sanofi. Stop fucking swimming in our wake. We’re basically subsidizing the entire globes R+D. We’ve been subsidizing NATOs defense spending for decades. We just invented a goddamn missile that goes Mach 45. Why? Because y’all made incredibly stupid deals with China and now you’re having buyers remorse. And now we’re gonna have to arm you once again. What have you done recently for me Australia? The fucking gall of you foreigners who come here and lecture us about our politics while we’re the ones putting in the elbow grease to make YOUR lives better, healthier, and safer.

No we do not actually.

Australia has the best cancer treatment survival rates in the world.

Australia leads global cancer survival rates – but more can be done

An international study shows Australians have the best chance of survival for seven types of cancers.

www1.racgp.org.au

Here is a good article about Australian heath care and why over all it gets better outcomes than the USA at much lower cost.

What Australia can teach America about health care

Why the Australian system might represent a realistic path forward for the US.

www.vox.com

Nobody cares about your healthcare system....especially the spin from America hating Vox idiots.

You don't have to care.

You can continue to naval gaze as many Americans love to do.

I am just throwing the facts out there for the intelligent minority of Americans to consider.

Intelligent people learn from the rest of the world, both good and bad.

Anyone voting for Biden is proving they are idiots.

I have said it elsewhere, a lot of my old Yank relatives and friends are not really thrilled about Biden, they are simply voting against Trump given the titanic failure of his pandemic response.

One is former military shipmate of mine, she is now a nurse and has seen the carnage first hand.

There is no titanic failure.

Your friends have rings through their noses and are being led around.

Carnage......bullshit.

Oh you poorly little thing. Apparently a poorly informed ignorant Trump supporters like you don’t know anything what is going on. El Paso, Texas with Republican governor and republican mayor.... Are on curfew, and shutting down other venues due to upswing infections. Did you even watch news at all? they are making hospital rooms outside to accommodate the surge..... That’s how bad it is....
Maybe if you stop watching Hannity and watch something else you might learn something new from your double TDS ignorance.
Miami Dade county is also on curfew under republican mayor.

El Paso County’s judge has ordered nonessential businesses to close to slow coronavirus spread. The Texas attorney general says he can’t do that.

The county is experiencing a record-breaking rise of COVID-19 cases that have overwhelmed hospitals.

www.texastribune.org

Amid COVID-19 Upswing, El Paso, Texas, Doctor Says ICU Is 'Surreal' And 'Strange'

Dr. Ogechika Alozie, chief medical officer of the Del Sol Medical Center in El Paso, talks about how the Texas city is handling the surge in COVID-19 cases.

www.npr.org

A dramatic upswing in COVID-19 cases and positivity rates in El Paso, Texas, has led officials to ask residents to stay at home for two weeks and to impose a mandatory countywide curfew.

Does this mean Biden is not in bed with Chinese and is 100% incapable of representing us in the ongoing economic battle against the Chinese economy?

No he is not and was never..... You got that information from a tabloid right? Stop reading tabloid magazine its not good to your health.


But your Donnie and Ivanka products are made in a China. So what are you talking about Dude?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

And it was not just the Syrian Kurds furious over Trump's cowardly betrayal, even many Republicans were.

You prefer we get drawn into a protracted conflict against Russia and Turkey?
You sound like a neo-con dumb fuck whose interests are motivated by your sick loser political biases.

The Kurds happen to be in an area controlled by Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq. We could be stuck in a
quagmire that makes Viet Nam look like a holiday guaranteeing the security of the Kurds.
Your talking points are bullshit. If we want to do something for them we should remove the Kurds
from their shitty neighborhood.

Resettle them in New Mexico, perhaps.

 

[charwin95]

Yeah...anymore...wanting liberty makes you a cult member.

Yes. liberty is the basic concept of America and the concept that made America great but liberals simply lack the IQ to understand it and so to be real Americans. If America falls it will be because of this. Being so slow, they turn to the govt as Santa Claus attitude or the Nancy Pelosi "we feed them" concept of government.

If America falls??? Where do you think we are right now son?

Millions of millions of Americans are facing evictions, mortgages payments, food on the table, lost of health coverages, credit cards max, jobs, unemployments, business closures, uncertain future, financial crisis, health crisis...... Trump has failed this country big time.

We deserves better.

 

[charwin95]

Trump has no relationship to the concept of limited government.

But you're a Dim so how would you know? Trump is cutting taxes and regulations and appointing huge conservatives to court, and is openly capitalist while Dims are openly huge govt socialists. Now you've been defeated once again . Time to run away and make an excuse for yourself as you run out the door. Sorry.

Trump tax cu only benefitted the few. Links below.

NAME me a single policy of Trump regulations that created jobs.

After 2 Years, Trump Tax Cuts Have Failed To Deliver On GOP's Promises

The president said it would be "rocket fuel for our economy," but the Republican tax cut passed in 2017 did not pay for itself as promised — nor did it deliver a sustained boost to growth.

www.npr.org

 

[charwin95]

Oh please!

the whole October Surprise stinks of rotten eggs!

First, Giuliani has had the laptop since July of 2019....
Why didn't he give it to AG Barr? That is what a law abiding citizen would do.

And Barr is in the bag for Trump, so there would be no reason not to do this...

And then, why in the hell would this computer shop owner, decide to give this lap top to Giuliani.... of all people??? Seriously!!!


Come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!


And then you have the impeachment, with Giuliani head deep in the shenanigans back in the late summer and fall of 2019....while he had the laptop already? And didn't come to the defense of Trump, in the impeachment nor the impeachment trial????

come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!! wake up!

And then we have the year long investigation in the Senate on it..... and the R Senate investigation in to the Hunter/Joe thingy and they supposedly have the lap top, and then clear Joe Biden of any wrong doing, though lots of negative on Hunter?

and this shop owner is allegedly legally blind so he doesn't know who dropped the laptop off, yet he says he called the person to come pick it up, and another yet, is he claims he saw something disturbing so he gave a copy to the FBI, but when questioned about child porn on the lapto this guy claims "He saw NONE of that..."?

So why did he give the laptop copy to the FBI?

And what was he doing snooping through Hunter Biden's lap top in the first place? That's NOT part of retrieving a hard drive.....? So what was it specifically that made him give a copy to the FBI and then out of the blue, choose Rudy Giuliani to give it to?

And this guy did not see child porn, and is legally blind, additionally an excuse for not knowing who dropped off the laptop, yet he sees well enough to read Hunter's emails and see something to make him want to turn the coPy of the laptop to the FBI?

Then Giuliani holds on to ALL OF THIS INFO, letting the alleged child sex abuse continue on and on and on and on, while he holds on to the laptop for over a year's time, without giving it to AG BARR,

only to drop the laptop in to the new National Enquirer helper for Trump, the New York Post tabloid, to drop the story two weeks out from the election.... and Giuliani says he gave it to the tabloid because he was afraid a legitimate news paper would be required to check the sources BEFORE printing the story,and 'this would be too late'..... too late to serve HIS PURPOSE of an October surprise.....

Come onnnnnnnnnnnn again!

Sorry, this stinks to high heaven of trumpery!

Your timeline is wrong. Want to try to not spin nonsense?

The FBI was given the hard drive in December after they subpoened it---------which means Barr would have or should have been informed then---but the clinton corrupt FBI sat on and hid this evidence even though Trump was being impeached over Burisma and the computer held evidence that was pertinent to the hearing. Guilliani wasn't informed of the computer till this year-------after the FBI had the computer.

Nope! That's all fake news dear one! The shop owner said he gave the laptop to the FBI after Hunter did not show up to pick it up..... that was early summer 2019? so is the story changing?

And then the subpoena that is showing by the GatewayPundit as a subpoena for Hunter Biden to show up at a grand jury, DOES NOT HAVE HUNTER'S NAME ON IT..... whomever was being subpoenaed...the name was blacked out.... the one that is claimed to have some agent named Wilson bled thru on it ....who works on child sex trafficking.....does not name Biden as the person being subpoenaed, and does not say that the person being subpoenaed has to bring any electronic data with him, as claimed by the GatewayPundit......

Snowflakes are being snowed!

NONSENSE---you desperately spinning bS.

April of 2019...computers (3) were brought in for repair. ONly one of the computers was left. AFTER the repairs, the owner of the computer have 45 days after being notified to come get their computer minimum by law. Most computer repair shops give longer periods to try to get their money. Once the owners do not show up--then the computer becomes the repairman---so you are talking atleast JUNE before the repair guy could even go through the computer's private emails/photos etc. "AFTER HUNTER DID not show up to pick up the computer" means MONTHS LATER,

According to the repairman, he then contacts a friend about what he found--and the friend contacted the FBI....who then in DECEMBER subpoened the computer.

Meet the computer repairman at the center of New York Post's Hunter Biden laptop story

A computer repairman who reportedly gave a copy of Hunter Biden's hard drive to Rudy Giuliani’s attorney spoke cryptically about his arrangement with the Republican operative.

www.delawareonline.com

The only problem with your post is you skip Guilliani who has been digging dirt against Biden working with Russian agents Derkach and Tekizhenko who just get banned from entering US by the state department.

Guilliani has a very long and good relationship with Fox News. It’s shocking and wondering why Fox News didn’t take this emails scandals against Biden? Instead he went to a NY Post a tabloid. Then stupid enough to admit that a legitimate news media will question him.

Maybe Guilliani knew something at the POST or maybe given all the smears by libs about Fox---he thought that it would have more impact coming from them instead of Fox. Or it could be that maybe the reporter as able to get information that guilliani wasn't and hence wrote his own story. This is a question that Guilliani should be asked though-------

But he went to less credible tabloid media. He even admitted he will get less question or less challenges using NYP tabloid.
All these doesn’t make sense.

Libs have smeared Fox as Faux so going for the POST does make sense ---because the libs aren't sure how to attack this. Plus it is likely that Guilliani knows someone at the post who makes him feel more comfortable.

TURTLE...... Why are you blaming the libs of an action that was done by your Russian assets Giuliani? We didn’t tell him to go to New York post or anywhere. We have nothing to do with any of that but let me update you just incase you don’t know what is going on.

He went NY Post because it’s a lot less scrutiny and it’s the only outlet that takes this story.

But even Fox News turned it down the story of Giuliani because of credibility and not properly vetted. Here’s the link.


Fox News passed on Hunter Biden email story amid credibility concerns

Fox News reportedly declined the chance to run Rudy Giuliani’s Hunter Biden emails story amid reported concerns on its credibility.

The Rupert Murdoch-owned news channel was offered the story by Donald Trump’s personal lawyer but refused it until it could be properly vetted, according to political news site mediaite.com.

Another braindead Liberal holding on by his fingernails.



"...the e-mail showing that Hunter and Jim Biden, Joe’s brother, were part of a group trying to set up a partnership with Chinese individuals, involving energy projects and perhaps American infrastructure. Millions of dollars were being discussed, making the deal a windfall for the Bidens and a propaganda coup for China.


The e-mail, sent from one of the American partners to Hunter and two others, detailed large cash payments to the partners as well as eventual equity stakes. Hunter, referred to as “H,” was to get 20 percent, and the deal listed “10 Jim” and “10 held by H for the big guy?”

Sources have confirmed to Fox News that the “big guy” was Joe Biden. I have been told by another person with knowledge of the arrangement that there are documents and other proof of Joe Biden’s involvement."

Hey, Joe Biden, what did you know about Hunter’s dirty deals?: Goodwin
Now that some secrets of the Biden family business are no longer secrets, it’s easy to imagine Joe Biden asking the same question Robert Redford asked in the 1972 film “The Candidate.” After winnin…

nypost.com

Not......what was that about "unraveling"??????

First 2 sentences alone is just a waste of my time reading the rest of your post. Your post has NOTHING to do what I was talking about ............ why that Russian assets Giuliani went to NY post instead of Fox News. Go back and TRY AGAIN.

Everyone knows it's true, and proof of what was revealed months back.


Now....what is it that makes Hunter Biden, crack-addict, ne'er-do-well, with no experience in gas or oil, kicked out of the Navy, never visited the Ukraine....worth millions and billions?



Interesting that when Biden was VP, he and his son Hunter went to deal with China, and Hunter came away with $millions.....

But Trump is immune to the bribes.


"The troubling reason why Biden is so soft on China
In 2013, then-Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden flew aboard Air Force Two to China. Less than two weeks later, Hunter Biden’s firm inked a $1 billion private equity deal with a subsidiary of the Chinese government’s Bank of China. The deal was later expanded to $1.5 billion. In short, the Chinese government funded a business that it co-owned along with the son of a sitting vice president."
The troubling reason why Biden is so soft on China


Sounds a lot like the $145 million Putin gave the Clintons.




The irony is astounding.....for years it was the lie that Trump was a Russian asset.....



......now we have proof......PROOF......that the Democrat candidate is a Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese employee.

Try again.

Again?

Sure...

From Hunter's laptop:

View attachment 404846

Game, set, match!

charwin95 turn off the lights when you leave

Why? Your gf keeps giving me a different rebuttal way off from what was I talking about with Turtlesoup. But you can try.

Putin and Xi are arguing over sharing custody of the Bidens

Nah?
Both Xi and Putin cut the Balls of Trump in the UN against Iran embargo by Xi and Putin.
Your boy Donnie has not said a single word against Putin despite the US bounty head in Afghanistan, interfering again in 2020 election, 14 times this year Russian jets was intercepted off Alaskan coast. That weakling Donnie has not said a single word against Putin.
Biden the true leader warned the Russians of consequences.

US jets intercept Russian bombers off Alaskan coast for 14th time this year

F-22 Raptor stealth fighter jets scrambled late Monday to intercept Russian long-range bombers and fighters flying off Alaska’s coast, the North American Aerospace Defense Command said Tuesday.

www.stripes.com

The bounty claim has already been discredited. As for the rest, it's no different than any other year.

Bounty head was discredited by who? When Kamala mentioned that during the debate with ....Pence. He didn’t say anything. Trump will pay dearly with the military voters this year. Guarantee.

You are an absolute idiot
President Trump and the military love and respect each other.

Idiot? Why in the world you PEOPLE can not have a normal discussion.

Obviously a moron ignorant like you don’t have a fucking clue of what you are saying. That MORON has trashed the military, Putin puppet a traitor, insults the general, trashed heroes that are caught as prisoners, attacked dead people, conspiracies, losers and suckers, US bounty head.....TRAITORS.

Here’s 3 links for you to update your ignorance. Trump is in very big trouble.
Robert O’Neill who killed Osama BL just trashed Trump.
Admiral William McRaven just trashed Trump endorsed Biden.


22 Retired 4-Stars Join Nearly 500 NatSec Leaders in Letter Endorsing Joe Biden

Trump Is Now 'America's No. 1 Traitor,' Says Veterans Group

"Benedict Arnold can step aside," VoteVets says in its latest anti-Trump attack ad.

m.huffpost.com

Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

The latest Military Times poll shows a continued decline in active-duty service members’ views of President Donald Trumpand a slight but significant preference for former Vice President Joe Biden in the upcoming November election among troops surveyed.

Do you ever stop lying?

Nah! TRUTH HURTS . Those are straight facts and reality. Instead of your usual one liner lousy rebuttal. Why not try to debunked my post see if you are capable?

Why would anyone waster their time debunking your posts? Everyone who's seen them knows they are pure horseshit.

Nah! Meaning you can’t because those are real. What is there to debunked?

I did not even include the LBQT + friends & families plus the Women March.. Those are HUUUGE numbers.

They will dwarf all of Trump rallies. I strongly believed that the record numbers of voting that we are witnessing are for Biden.

Voting for this?

The Democrat Party is now running on full-blown anti-white racism, socialism, infanticide, opposition to free speech, substituting illegal alien voters for the American citizenry, support for rioters, arsonists, murderers, and anarchists, and anti-Semitism… the knuckle-dragging, atavistic pagan party.



Which is your favorite part?

You created that your own. So it’s not a choice. Go get me sometin more interesting.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

Yes 97% of the world's climate scientists are being bribed.

Agreed! The bribes are called "funding" from universities, government agencies and NGOs.

And if you contradict the approved "wisdom" they represent you will wind up like Galileo, who disagreed with the Pope and the consensus of "experts" of his day when Galileo said we live in a solar-centric universe (not earth-centric) and the Pope called that heresy.
Galileo had his funding pulled.



,

Nice analogy expect you got it ba

And it was not just the Syrian Kurds furious over Trump's cowardly betrayal, even many Republicans were.

You prefer we get drawn into a protracted conflict against Russia and Turkey?
You sound like a neo-con dumb fuck whose interests are motivated by your sick loser political biases.

The Kurds happen to be in an area controlled by Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq. We could be stuck in a
quagmire that makes Viet Nam look like a holiday guaranteeing the security of the Kurds.
Your talking points are bullshit. If we want to do something for them we should remove the Kurds
from their shitty neighborhood.

Resettle them in New Mexico, perhaps.

Turkey is a NATO member, there was no way with US troops in the Kurdish areas of Syria they were going to take military action, indeed that is why they didn't.

but Trump just pulled out and betrayed our ally.


There was no quagmire in the Kurdish controlled area of Syria, ISIS had been defeated it was a matter or keeping our word and protecting our most faithful ally in the region until a negotiated settlement with Assad, who also does not want Turkey occupying Syrian territory could be made.

It was won and we had a loyal ally who we betrayed.

And the region noticed.


Indeed Russia has a nice, fat bear smile.

" A serious policy of disengagement from the Middle East would require working with our allies in the region and elsewhere. It would involve intense planning by the Pentagon and State Department. And, most importantly, it would necessitate very tough negotiations with the Turks to minimize our betrayal of a people who lost some 11,000 troops fighting at our side."

Opinion: In his unconscionable betrayal of the Kurds, Trump was winging it — again

Unlike when past presidents made catastrophic decisions, Trump alone is responsible for the disastrous Syria pullout.

www.latimes.com

Marine who fought with Kurds blasts Trump move in Syria as betrayal

"As a guy who has fought alongside the Kurds," said former Marine Col. Andrew Milburn, "on an emotional level this is gut-wrenching."

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Nice analogy expect you got it ba

Gee, I can't wait to read a whole sentence from you on this. Please tell me where I am
going wrong.

Turkey is a NATO member, there was no way with US troops in the Kurdish areas of Syria they were going to take military action, but Trump just pulled out.

So you claim, Quiz Kid.

There was not quagmire in the Turkish controlled area of Syria, ISIS had been defeated it was a matter or keeping our word and protecting our most faithful ally in the region until a negotiated settlement with Assad, who also does not want Turkey occupying Syrian territory could be made.

It was won and we had a loyal ally who we betrayed.

And the region noticed.

Did it? What are the consequences of that? Or can't you say?

We "betrayed" S. Viet Nam for that matter. How long do you think we should have stayed
there and protected the South?
Will you state for everyone to see that you think we should still be in Viet Nam in order to stay true to a loyal ally?

Or do you not care for intellectual consistency? Just say yes or no.

 

[Billiejeens]

"There is currently a strong scientific consensus that the Earth is warming and that this warming is mainly caused by human activities. This consensus is supported by various studies of scientists' opinions and by position statements of scientific organizations, many of which explicitly agree with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) synthesis reports.

Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists (97–98%[1]) support the consensus on anthropogenic climate change,[2][3] and the remaining 2% of contrarian studies either cannot be replicated or contain errors.[4]"

Scientific consensus on climate change - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Simply false

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

Nice analogy expect you got it ba

Gee, I can't wait to read a whole sentence from you on this. Please tell me where I am
going wrong.

Turkey is a NATO member, there was no way with US troops in the Kurdish areas of Syria they were going to take military action, but Trump just pulled out.

So you claim, Quiz Kid.

There was not quagmire in the Turkish controlled area of Syria, ISIS had been defeated it was a matter or keeping our word and protecting our most faithful ally in the region until a negotiated settlement with Assad, who also does not want Turkey occupying Syrian territory could be made.

It was won and we had a loyal ally who we betrayed.

And the region noticed.

Did it? What are the consequences of that? Or can't you say?

We "betrayed" S. Viet Nam for that matter. How long do you think we should have stayed
there and protected the South?
Will you state for everyone to see that you think we should still be in Viet Nam in order to stay true to a loyal ally?

Or do you not care for intellectual consistency? Just say yes or no.

This was not Vietnam, we achieved our goal and then threw it away.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

"There is currently a strong scientific consensus that the Earth is warming and that this warming is mainly caused by human activities. This consensus is supported by various studies of scientists' opinions and by position statements of scientific organizations, many of which explicitly agree with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) synthesis reports.

Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists (97–98%[1]) support the consensus on anthropogenic climate change,[2][3] and the remaining 2% of contrarian studies either cannot be replicated or contain errors.[4]"

Scientific consensus on climate change - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Simply false

Two Trump cult members disagree with the overwhelming majority of climate scientists.

Who to believe?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

This was not Vietnam, we achieved our goal and then threw it away.

Is this about Viet Nam now? Most people who know anything about that war would be shocked to find
someone that claims we achieved our goals there. Incredible.
And what about how we abandoned our allies there? Or is your allegiance to our allies that conditional?

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

This was not Vietnam, we achieved our goal and then threw it away.

Is this about Viet Nam now? Most people who know anything about that war would be shocked to find
someone that claims we achieved our goals there. Incredible.
And what about how we abandoned our allies there? Or is your allegiance to our allies that conditional?

Do you read your own posts?

You brought up Vietnam and made the comparison?

We achieved our military goals in Kurdish Syria, not our political, please read slower after your slobbering festival.

Get back to me when you are done talking to yourself.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Two Trump cult members disagree with the overwhelming majority of climate scientists.

Who to believe?

I'm merely stating the case for global warming is far from a "consensus". This isn't about what I believe.
That's the problem with you weak minded binary thinkers.
Get some information on Bjorn Lomborg. I think he has a good handle on things, from what I can tell.