None Dare Call It What It Is...

[ding]

A core doctrine of Spinozism is that the universe is essentially deterministic. All that happens or will happen could not have unfolded in any other way. Spinoza claimed that the third kind of knowledge, intuition, is the highest kind attainable. More specifically, he defined this as the ability for the human intellect to intuit knowledge based upon its accumulated understanding of the world around them.

So let's take YOUR logical fallacy to its logical conclusion. You die and meet your maker. Are you going to argue that it was His fault that you were unable to intuit God's existence when so many others have?

How exactly do you think that conversation will go? You don't need to wonder. See Job 40.

I might ask him why, if he wanted me to believe in him, did he go to such lengths to hide his existence? Why did he allow so many religions to exist? Yes, he has a lot to answer for.

Diversification is natural. What you see as a weakness is really a strength.

 

[alang1216]

Does that mean you don't believe the Bible?

Do I believe the Bible is the word of God? No, I believe it is a book written by man.

 

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Talk about logical fallacies. Yeesh. You are invoking other Gods. Really?

There is only one Creator. He doesn't care what name you call Him by.

If there is only one creator why are there so many conflicting versions of him. Did the one creator create Judaism, Christianity, and Islam? How about Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.?

How do you know there is only one creator? Because people you have faith in, people you never met, told you so. Can you cite any evidence there is only one creator and not a committee of creators?

There is only one revealed religion where God sought man. No other religion makes this claim. The rest are man seeking God. Much can be garnered about God by man seeking God which is why all religions are so similar.

 

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Does that mean you don't believe the Bible?

Do I believe the Bible is the word of God? No, I believe it is a book written by man.

The Bible was written by man. I don't think anyone disputes this.

 

[alang1216]

Diversification is natural. What you see as a weakness is really a strength.

Maybe so but it makes it difficult for Pascal to make his wager. It is not a binary choice but like roulette, unless you bet on the right number, you lose.

 

[ding]

Diversification is natural. What you see as a weakness is really a strength.

Maybe so but it makes it difficult for Pascal to make his wager. It is not a binary choice but like roulette, unless you bet on the right number, you lose.

No, it doesn't. Religion isn't God.

It absolutely is a binary choice. You have confused religion for God.

Can you tell me which religions are based upon God seeking out man? There's only one. You are confusing the many different perception of God with many different Gods. That isn't the case. Logically there can only be one Creator. He doesn't care what you call Him. It's a binary choice.

 

[BS Filter]

Does that mean you don't believe the Bible?

Do I believe the Bible is the word of God? No, I believe it is a book written by man.

I used to believe what you believe. I once moved in with a girlfriend when I was in my 20s and when she unpacked a bible I grabbed it and threw it out the window.

 

[BS Filter]

I believe the Bible was written by man, but the inspiration came by the Spirit of God. I found that out for myself after years of believing the Bible was not an inspired book. I sought God and asked Him to show me, and He did. The more I studied, the more God revealed himself to me. I didn't study "religion". I studied the Scriptures.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Isn't it great the way I force you to research things you never knew about before I educated you?

On the other hand you appear to be one of the little kids, hoping to gain the attention of your heroes.

I must compliment your choice of heroines.

Sorry but my heroes abide by the 9th commandment and don't repeat things they know or should know to be false.

Yup....that's me!

Now run along, junior.

 

[alang1216]

I didn't study "religion". I studied the Scriptures.

I studied both and came to the conclusion they are products of man not God(s). The difference between us is faith. You have it and I don't.

 

[BS Filter]

I didn't study "religion". I studied the Scriptures.

I studied both and came to the conclusion they are products of man not God(s). The difference between us is faith. You have it and I don't.

How did you study the Scriptures? Who, what, how?

 

[ding]

I didn't study "religion". I studied the Scriptures.

I studied both and came to the conclusion they are products of man not God(s). The difference between us is faith. You have it and I don't.

We live in a universe governed by rules. Rules which determine outcomes based upon information. Information and rules are the product of intelligence. The product of the universe is intelligence. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.

 

[alang1216]

I didn't study "religion". I studied the Scriptures.

I studied both and came to the conclusion they are products of man not God(s). The difference between us is faith. You have it and I don't.

How did you study the Scriptures? Who, what, how?

I read them and numerous scholarly books on the subject, foremost from Bart Ehrman.

 

[alang1216]

We live in a universe governed by rules. Rules which determine outcomes based upon information. Information and rules are the product of intelligence. The product of the universe is intelligence. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.

Does this come from faith or from evidence?

 

[ding]

We live in a universe governed by rules. Rules which determine outcomes based upon information. Information and rules are the product of intelligence. The product of the universe is intelligence. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.

Does this come from faith or from evidence?

Evidence.

 

[alang1216]

We live in a universe governed by rules. Rules which determine outcomes based upon information. Information and rules are the product of intelligence. The product of the universe is intelligence. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.

Does this come from faith or from evidence?

Evidence.

OK but probably a discussion for a different thread since I don't think either faith or religion are inherently evil.

 

[ding]

We live in a universe governed by rules. Rules which determine outcomes based upon information. Information and rules are the product of intelligence. The product of the universe is intelligence. It is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence.

Does this come from faith or from evidence?

Evidence.

OK but probably a discussion for a different thread since I don't think either faith or religion are inherently evil.

You are questioning the existence of God, right? And you are limiting your examination to the Bible and religion, right?

Why wouldn't you study what was purportedly created by Him to see if it made sense?

You are trying to skip steps. Before you can know who God is you must first believe that there was a Creator in the first place who had a purpose for His creation.

 

[alang1216]

You are questioning the existence of God, right? And you are limiting your examination to the Bible and religion, right?

Why wouldn't you study what was purportedly created by Him to see if it made sense?

I have done an extensive study of the natural world and think it is all explainable by natural not supernatural forces.

You are trying to skip steps. Before you can know who God is you must first believe that there was a Creator in the first place who had a purpose for His creation.

So I must believe in God without convincing evidence? That is a first, blind step I've never been able to take.

I don't know if there even was a creator. And even if there was I have no reason to believe ANYONE knows more about him than I do.

 

[ding]

You are questioning the existence of God, right? And you are limiting your examination to the Bible and religion, right? Why wouldn't you study what was purportedly created by Him to see if it made sense?

I have done an extensive study of the natural world and think it is all explainable by natural not supernatural forces.

Did the universe have a beginning?
What is the most complex thing that has been created by the universe?
Are you aware that the atoms in your body were present when space and time were created?
What were the stages of evolution of matter?

You are trying to skip steps. Before you can know who God is you must first believe that there was a Creator in the first place who had a purpose for His creation.

So I must believe in God without convincing evidence? That is a first, blind step I've never been able to take.

Then you are wasting your time discussing the Bible as all you are really trying to do is confirm your bias. There is no need for that.

The evidence you are looking for is in His creation.

I don't know if there even was a creator. And even if there was I have no reason to believe ANYONE knows more about him than I do.

That must be why you are discussing Him in a religious forum, right? Because you want to find out more about God, right?

Why don't you be honest with yourself about why you are really here?

 

[Spare_change]

Talk about logical fallacies. Yeesh. You are invoking other Gods. Really?

There is only one Creator. He doesn't care what name you call Him by.

If there is only one creator why are there so many conflicting versions of him. Did the one creator create Judaism, Christianity, and Islam? How about Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.?

How do you know there is only one creator? Because people you have faith in, people you never met, told you so. Can you cite any evidence there is only one creator and not a committee of creators?

Yes.