None Dare Call It What It Is...

[BS Filter]

I didn't study "religion". I studied the Scriptures.

I studied both and came to the conclusion they are products of man not God(s). The difference between us is faith. You have it and I don't.

How did you study the Scriptures? Who, what, how?

I read them and numerous scholarly books on the subject, foremost from Bart Ehrman.

Bart Ehrman doesn’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

 

[alang1216]

What is the most complex thing that has been created by the universe?
Are you aware that the atoms in your body were present when space and time were created?
What were the stages of evolution of matter?

Don't know, maybe DNA?
Some maybe but certainly not all.
Don't know.

So I must believe in God without convincing evidence? That is a first, blind step I've never been able to take.

Then you are wasting your time discussing the Bible as all you are really trying to do is confirm your bias. There is no need for that.

The evidence you are looking for is in His creation.

The Bible is the most complete book we have from the ancient world. That alone is reason enough to study it. It has also had a profound effect on Western society. You can not understand one without understanding the other.

That must be why you are discussing Him in a religious forum, right? Because you want to find out more about God, right?

Why don't you be honest with yourself about why you are really here?

Religion and Ethics forum. I'm here because I enjoy testing my ideals, exploring my biases, and learning from and about others I would never ordinarily meet. I'm pretty sure no one here knows more about God than I do.

 

[alang1216]

Bart Ehrman doesn’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

He did until he studied the Bible and found it was not the literal word of God he had been taught and once believed. What really ended his belief was the question of evil. Appropriate to the thread.

 

[BS Filter]

Bart Ehrman doesn’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

He did until he studied the Bible and found it was not the literal word of God he had been taught and once believed. What really ended his belief was the question of evil. Appropriate to the thread.

I understand his path. On the other hand, he is just one man. There are millions that have studied the bible and that studying has reinforced their faith, like me. I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

 

[ding]

Don't know, maybe DNA?
Some maybe but certainly not all.
Don't know.

Consciousness. You are capable of contemplating abstract thought. Nothing is more complex than consciousness; intelligence.

The Bible is the most complete book we have from the ancient world. That alone is reason enough to study it. It has also had a profound effect on Western society. You can not understand one without understanding the other.

But that doesn't seem to be what you are doing.

Religion and Ethics forum. I'm here because I enjoy testing my ideals, exploring my biases, and learning from and about others I would never ordinarily meet. I'm pretty sure no one here knows more about God than I do.

Tell me about God.

 

[alang1216]

Bart Ehrman doesn’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

He did until he studied the Bible and found it was not the literal word of God he had been taught and once believed. What really ended his belief was the question of evil. Appropriate to the thread.

I understand his path. On the other hand, he is just one man. There are millions that have studied the bible and that studying has reinforced their faith, like me. I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

Is God capable of eliminating Satan if He choose? It seems to me if you allow evil to continue you are culpable.

 

[alang1216]

Don't know, maybe DNA?
Some maybe but certainly not all.
Don't know.

Consciousness. You are capable of contemplating abstract thought. Nothing is more complex than consciousness; intelligence.

Maybe, I don't really know. What will it mean when we create artificial consciousness?

The Bible is the most complete book we have from the ancient world. That alone is reason enough to study it. It has also had a profound effect on Western society. You can not understand one without understanding the other.

But that doesn't seem to be what you are doing.

Please explain because I think I have achieved a good understanding of both.

Religion and Ethics forum. I'm here because I enjoy testing my ideals, exploring my biases, and learning from and about others I would never ordinarily meet. I'm pretty sure no one here knows more about God than I do.

Tell me about God.

God evolved from primitive man's need to understand & control his environment. Initially every force/event had a cause you could bargain with, a ritual for rain or health, etc. Then, at least in the Middle East, every city/state had its own pantheon of gods. More powerful gods had more powerful states but everyone was welcome to pay homage to any and all gods. At some point, sometime in the 2nd millennium BC, one group of Canaanites, the Israelites, made a covenant to worship only one of the many gods available, Yahweh. The Israelites did initially did well in battle but eventually lost their independence since Yahweh became displeased with the Israelites. The vision of Yahweh evolved from a god of the Israelite people to the god of every individual Israelite and then to the only god. It was this concept of a single, all-powerful being that Christianity was built upon and what we inherit today. You're welcome.

 

[BS Filter]

Bart Ehrman doesn’t believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

He did until he studied the Bible and found it was not the literal word of God he had been taught and once believed. What really ended his belief was the question of evil. Appropriate to the thread.

I understand his path. On the other hand, he is just one man. There are millions that have studied the bible and that studying has reinforced their faith, like me. I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

Is God capable of eliminating Satan if He choose? It seems to me if you allow evil to continue you are culpable.

Satan has been defeated. Haven't you read the book? Man disobeyed God and gave up his authority on the earth. God redeemed man. God has done it all. We're the guilty ones, not God. Do you believe in sin and understand what it is? Do you understand God is holy, sinless?

 

[alang1216]

I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

Is God capable of eliminating Satan if He choose? It seems to me if you allow evil to continue you are culpable.

Satan has been defeated. Haven't you read the book? Man disobeyed God and gave up his authority on the earth. God redeemed man. God has done it all. We're the guilty ones, not God. Do you believe in sin and understand what it is? Do you understand God is holy, sinless?

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

 

[BS Filter]

I believe there is evil in the world, but God is not the evil one. The evil one is Satan, Jesus said so.

Is God capable of eliminating Satan if He choose? It seems to me if you allow evil to continue you are culpable.

Satan has been defeated. Haven't you read the book? Man disobeyed God and gave up his authority on the earth. God redeemed man. God has done it all. We're the guilty ones, not God. Do you believe in sin and understand what it is? Do you understand God is holy, sinless?

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

The penalty for sin was defeated. The day is coming when there will be no more evil. That doesn't mean God is evil just because there is evil in the world. I don't know all the answers, but I do know God is real and changed my life. I used to think just like you, so I know God changes people.

 

[hobelim]

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

Unless the dough went into the oven there would be no such thing as bread.

 

[alang1216]

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

Unless the dough went into the oven there would be no such thing as bread.

Because God did it this way there is no other way it have been done and we know this because God did it this way.

Circular reasoning.

 

[BS Filter]

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

Unless the dough went into the oven there would be no such thing as bread.

Because God did it this way there is no other way it have been done and we know this because God did it this way.

Circular reasoning.

For the unbeliever that does not seek God, it's circular reasoning. God's Word says in Isaiah, "Come, let us reason together". God's Word also says in Jeremiah that if you seek Him with your whole heart He will reveal himself. It's up to you, not God. It's a relationship. He isn't going to force Himself on anyone for their love.

 

[hobelim]

If Satan has been defeated why is there still evil in the world? The obvious answer is that God chose to create a world knowing it would be filled with incredible pain and suffering. That sounds like evil to me.

Unless the dough went into the oven there would be no such thing as bread.

Because God did it this way there is no other way it have been done and we know this because God did it this way.

Circular reasoning.

Please don't put words into my mouth.

You have determined that pain and suffering is evidence of evil.

I simply tried to give you another way to look at it.

For a person to even be able to choose what is good and reject what is evil they have to have a knowledge of good and evil.

Much of what is good in life was born as a result of much suffering and pain. The more you understand the less painful suffering is.

 

[alang1216]

It's a relationship. He isn't going to force Himself on anyone for their love.

I think there is a difference between forcing Himself on someone and playing a game of hide and seek with them. Especially since the stakes, eternity, are so high for the person.

 

[alang1216]

Much of what is good in life was born as a result of much suffering and pain. The more you understand the less painful suffering is.

What was the good that came from smallpox? Did we screw up God's plans now that we've eradicated it?

 

[hobelim]

It's a relationship. He isn't going to force Himself on anyone for their love.

I think there is a difference between forcing Himself on someone and playing a game of hide and seek with them. Especially since the stakes, eternity, are so high for the person.

Hide and seek? Don't be silly.

What exactly did you have to do to be born into this world?

Would you destroy your own child for eternity simply because they were born blind?

Any mystery remains a mystery only until the truth becomes known...

 

[hobelim]

Much of what is good in life was born as a result of much suffering and pain. The more you understand the less painful suffering is.

What was the good that came from smallpox? Did we screw up God's plans now that we've eradicated it?

Oh I see, you are full of compassion for all those people who die from terrible things and believes that a God who would allow nature to run its course has to be evil..as if everyone doesn't end up dead.

You would rather everyone lived happily ever after on a planet with finite resources that could never support the existence of all the people who ever lived on it at the same time...

Thats what you would do if you were God?

May I bring you some tea, your majesty?

 

[BS Filter]

It's a relationship. He isn't going to force Himself on anyone for their love.

I think there is a difference between forcing Himself on someone and playing a game of hide and seek with them. Especially since the stakes, eternity, are so high for the person.

God never hid from anyone. It's us that hide from Him.

 

[BS Filter]

Much of what is good in life was born as a result of much suffering and pain. The more you understand the less painful suffering is.

What was the good that came from smallpox? Did we screw up God's plans now that we've eradicated it?

Funny how you attribute sickness and disease to God. Was Jesus going against God when He healed the sick?