Zone1 Is Socrates the secular version of Jesus?

[Votto]

FAQ: Was Socrates a real person? | The Jerusalem Post

Known as the "Mad Gadfly," Socrates's life, philosophical teachings, and trial and execution by Athens are world famous. But was he real?

www.jpost.com

The Greek philosopher Socrates had many similarities with Jesus which include

1. Both went around preaching what they viewed as truth and wisdom. In fact, Socrates once famously declared that if there was any person who went around pointing out truth and lived a public life, they would be killed for it.
2. Both were murdered for refusing to recant the truth that they believed, thus they were both murdered for it.
3. Both are speculated to have never existed. This, in part, is because they never wrote about themselves, they let others do that for them. In my mind though, this only adds to their veracity, as anyone can write nice things about themselves. It is only through the eyes of other people that we get a better picture of how they impacted those around them. It is similar to why a court of law uses eyewitnesses in court as their witness stands as a heavier witness than the witness of the person being critiqued. It also is puzzling how a man would seek truth above wanting to save their own life. This alone adds to the speculation as to whether they ever existed, because that is simply not normal. What is normal is, you side with the truth that you think best helps you, and then dig in and defend that position at all costs, even if you know some of it is not true.
4. Both sounded eerily the same in terms of their philosophy. But that seems understandable if they are pursing the same things, which are wisdom and truth.

Here are a few examples of the teachings of Socrates that sound very Christ like.

Both Socrates and Christ predicted their own demise.

Socrates: "A man who really fights for justice must lead a private life, not a public life, if he is to survive for even a short time"
"The true champion of justice, if he intends to survive even for a short time, must necessarily confine himself to private life and leave politics alone."

"My plainness of speech makes them hate me, and what is their hatred but proof that I am speaking the truth."

Jesus: Mark 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
John 15:18 If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.



Both knew that envy was a sin, and not a virtue as the Left presents it today.

Socrates: "Envy is a cancer of the soul"

James 3:14
14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth.
15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.

Both understood that you should not render evil for evil

Socrates: "One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him"
Jesus: Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

Both saw kindness as a strength and virtue, and not a weakness

Socrates: "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"
Ephesians 2:7 In order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Both saw the virtue of marriage, well, sort of.

Socrates: By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you will be happy. If you get a bad wife, you will become a philosopher"

Jesus: “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)
“A wife of noble character is her husband’s crown, but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones.” – Proverbs 12:4

Both saw the material universe as not reality, but more of an illusion of what really constitutes reality.

Socrates: "I was afraid that by observing objects with my eyes and trying to comprehend them with each of my other senses, I might blind my soul altogether" "The mind is a pilot of the soul"

2 Corinthians 2:7 "For we live by faith, not by sight."

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Both saw casting judgement on other people before looking at themselves was a mistake

Socrates: "You are wrong sir, if you think that a man who is any good at all should take into account the risk of life or death; he should look to this only in his actions."

John 8:7 "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Both saw sin as the major obstacle of human existence

Socrates: "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light"

Socrates: "It is not difficult to avoid death, it is much more difficult to avoid wickedness, for it runs faster than death"

John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Both saw losing you soul as the worst fate you can endure.

Socrates: "Are you not ashamed to be concerned so much about making all the money you can and advancing your reputation and prestige, while for truth and wisdom and the improvement of your souls you have no thought or care?"

Mark 8:36 "What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"

 

[luiza]

Jesus the Essene definitely was a real person .
The historical evidence is irrefutable.

However , I accept that we would be in a better world if he had not lived .
The rubbish that fell out of his mouth is extraordinary .
Turning the other cheek , was a classic blunder , and as for claiming that we are all equal in his Dad's eyes -- what a Clown .

 

[Votto]

Jesus the Essene definitely was a real person .
The historical evidence is irrefutable.

However , I accept that we would be in a better world if he had not lived .
The rubbish that fell out of his mouth is extraordinary .
Turning the other cheek , was a classic blunder , and as for claiming that we are all equal in his Dad's eyes -- what a Clown .

Back that up.

Based on what exactly?

You do realize that the first hospitals and universities were started by Christians, and if you look at charities, those of faith lead the way in terms of time and money given to them, right?

 

[luiza]

Back that up.

Back What Up ?
That Jesus was a bit of a plonker ?

The guy who said that his Dad loves Hitler and Netanyahu despite their Evil.

Not a guy of sound mind and certainly not somebody I would entrust difficult decision making to .

Perhaps believing in and trusting such a simpleton directly contributed to bad luck consistently following his Gullible followers .

 

[Ace Nova]

Turning the other cheek , was a classic blunder , and as for claiming that we are all equal in his Dad's eyes -- what a Clown .

"Turning the other cheek" is one of the most difficult teachings to understand. On a physical, day to day, micro level - it could lead you to be taken advantage of, hurt - or even killed. So on the most physical, micro levels, it may not make much sense.

On a much broader, macro level - living your life that way creates resolve and a foundation that no one can break. It has much more to do with knowing that in mind, body and spirit that your way of life has evolved to a level that promotes resolution instead of conflict. Knowing that your Adversary can hurt you for one day - one battle - but that you will eventually win the war because you cannot be shaken. It is exponentially more difficult to stand there firm, not running away "turning the other cheek" than it would be to run away or to immediately fight back.


When the people you least expect to "turn the other cheek" do it - wisdom is born - and it can pay dividends:

 

[Augustine_]

FAQ: Was Socrates a real person? | The Jerusalem Post

Known as the "Mad Gadfly," Socrates's life, philosophical teachings, and trial and execution by Athens are world famous. But was he real?

www.jpost.com

The Greek philosopher Socrates had many similarities with Jesus which include

1. Both went around preaching what they viewed as truth and wisdom. In fact, Socrates once famously declared that if there was any person who went around pointing out truth and lived a public life, they would be killed for it.
2. Both were murdered for refusing to recant the truth that they believed, thus they were both murdered for it.
3. Both are speculated to have never existed. This, in part, is because they never wrote about themselves, they let others do that for them. In my mind though, this only adds to their veracity, as anyone can write nice things about themselves. It is only through the eyes of other people that we get a better picture of how they impacted those around them. It is similar to why a court of law uses eyewitnesses in court as their witness stands as a heavier witness than the witness of the person being critiqued. It also is puzzling how a man would seek truth above wanting to save their own life. This alone adds to the speculation as to whether they ever existed, because that is simply not normal. What is normal is, you side with the truth that you think best helps you, and then dig in and defend that position at all costs, even if you know some of it is not true.
4. Both sounded eerily the same in terms of their philosophy. But that seems understandable if they are pursing the same things, which are wisdom and truth.

Here are a few examples of the teachings of Socrates that sound very Christ like.

Both Socrates and Christ predicted their own demise.

Socrates: "A man who really fights for justice must lead a private life, not a public life, if he is to survive for even a short time"
"The true champion of justice, if he intends to survive even for a short time, must necessarily confine himself to private life and leave politics alone."

"My plainness of speech makes them hate me, and what is their hatred but proof that I am speaking the truth."

Jesus: Mark 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
John 15:18 If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.



Both knew that envy was a sin, and not a virtue as the Left presents it today.

Socrates: "Envy is a cancer of the soul"

James 3:14
14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth.
15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.

Both understood that you should not render evil for evil

Socrates: "One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him"
Jesus: Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

Both saw kindness as a strength and virtue, and not a weakness

Socrates: "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"
Ephesians 2:7 In order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Both saw the virtue of marriage, well, sort of.

Socrates: By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you will be happy. If you get a bad wife, you will become a philosopher"

Jesus: “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)
“A wife of noble character is her husband’s crown, but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones.” – Proverbs 12:4

Both saw the material universe as not reality, but more of an illusion of what really constitutes reality.

Socrates: "I was afraid that by observing objects with my eyes and trying to comprehend them with each of my other senses, I might blind my soul altogether" "The mind is a pilot of the soul"

2 Corinthians 2:7 "For we live by faith, not by sight."

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Both saw casting judgement on other people before looking at themselves was a mistake

Socrates: "You are wrong sir, if you think that a man who is any good at all should take into account the risk of life or death; he should look to this only in his actions."

John 8:7 "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Both saw sin as the major obstacle of human existence

Socrates: "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light"

Socrates: "It is not difficult to avoid death, it is much more difficult to avoid wickedness, for it runs faster than death"

John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Both saw losing you soul as the worst fate you can endure.

Socrates: "Are you not ashamed to be concerned so much about making all the money you can and advancing your reputation and prestige, while for truth and wisdom and the improvement of your souls you have no thought or care?"

Mark 8:36 "What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"

It's almost like Christian beliefs were inherited from human made traditions and values of earlier generations instead of from some divine revelation

 

[luiza]

When the people you least expect to "turn the other cheek" do it - wisdom is born - and it can pay dividends:

Appreciate you mean well .

However , there has never been a better way for the Elite to control Sheeple and dedicated Munchers , than through the subserviance teachings of Cult Christianity .

It is also effectively standard Deep State teaching and practise but without the Tooth Fairy promises for after Death .

In terms of running a tidy ship and having well behaved subjects , it is a great approach .
Perhaps not for Munchers who can think a bit , but they can always be shut up if they become too noisy and a bit of a distraction .

I favour letting Cult Christian dogs rest in peace ( Sheeple actually ) because if you smile at them and keep them well fed and warm they tend to be very easy to herd and pen whenever necessary .

That's how Trumpfy handles them .Or tries to .

 

[Ace Nova]

Appreciate you mean well .

However , there has never been a better way for the Elite to control Sheeple and dedicated Munchers , than through the subserviance teachings of Cult Christianity .

It is also effectively standard Deep State teaching and practise but without the Tooth Fairy promises for after Death .

In terms of running a tidy ship and having well behaved subjects , it is a great approach .
Perhaps not for Munchers who can think a bit , but they can always be shut up if they become too noisy and a bit of a distraction .

I favour letting Cult Christian dogs rest in peace ( Sheeple actually ) because if you smile at them and keep them well fed and warm they tend to be very easy to herd and pen whenever necessary .

That's how Trumpfy handles them .Or tries to .

I can see how a person in 2026 views Christianity the way you do because the vast majority of the information you see in regards to Christianity comes from the most radical - yes, even "Cultish" sects - who tend to preach and practice specific beliefs.

I can assure you for every one Christian you see holding a sign on the side of the street proclaiming, "Fire and Brimstone!" there are millions and millions of Christians who do not preach or practice the same "radical" beliefs.

The teachings of Jesus Christ - at their foundation - were viewed as very progressive and "free thinking" at the time. It is (quite literally) the reason he was crucified - and many of his followers persecuted and killed for centuries there after.

Jesus spoke in parables for two reasons - the first was so that he would not be accused of blasphemy - in those times, you could tell as many "stories" as you wanted but if you attempted to teach things directly - you could have been scrutinized - or worse - John The Baptist.

The second - it taught people to "think". A parable opens up a different way of thinking and understanding.



Mark 7 demonstrates how "free thinking" Jesus' teachings were:

That Which Defiles​

7 The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.

5. So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

20;He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”


A radical Christian would view this passage on a micro level - "Jesus said that even thinking about sex or doing bad things will defile you "

And although that is partially and somewhat true - it is far from the main point of the passage. The main point was to show that an emphasis should be placed on "THOUGHTS AND THINKING" instead of being just "physically clean". If your "thoughts and thinking" are "clean" or you strive to be - then the physical aspects will likely follow. Thoughts lead to actions.

 

[ding]

It's almost like Christian beliefs were inherited from human made traditions and values of earlier generations instead of from some divine revelation

I think you are confusing that with atheism.

 

[ding]

Back What Up ?
That Jesus was a bit of a plonker ?

The guy who said that his Dad loves Hitler and Netanyahu despite their Evil.

Not a guy of sound mind and certainly not somebody I would entrust difficult decision making to .

Perhaps believing in and trusting such a simpleton directly contributed to bad luck consistently following his Gullible followers .

You British really are wankers.

 

[ding]

Back What Up ?
That Jesus was a bit of a plonker ?

The guy who said that his Dad loves Hitler and Netanyahu despite their Evil.

Not a guy of sound mind and certainly not somebody I would entrust difficult decision making to .

Perhaps believing in and trusting such a simpleton directly contributed to bad luck consistently following his Gullible followers .

Christians believe hell exists. Jews and atheists don't. It's you guys that struggle with accountability. Christians believe in a cosmic accountability so to speak. You believe that all behaviors lead to an equal outcome... worms. I can't wait until you idiots Darwinize yourselves out of existence.

 

[luiza]

Christians believe hell exists. Jews and atheists don't. It's you guys that struggle with accountability. Christians believe in a cosmic accountability so to speak. You believe that all behaviors lead to an equal outcome... worms. I can't wait until you idiots Darwinize yourselves out of existence.

Even more muddled than usual Dingle Dongle .
Whom do you imagine you are posting to --- a Cult Christian , Jew or Atheist?

Although I see Cult Christianity as a wicked body of Fake thought , I am well versed in the Cult thinking .

My grandfather was an ordained Churchman within the Anglican Church , I studied Comparative Theology as an Ancilliary Course at University and later I became a keen student of the Dead Sea Scrolls and those Gospels that were discarded at Nicea in 325AD .

 

[ding]

Even more muddled than usual Dingle Dongle .
Whom do you imagine you are posting to --- a Cult Christian , Jew or Atheist?

Does it matter? You could belong to any number of rival religions that attack Christianity. But if I had to guess you are some new age pantheist or Gnostic Christian that practices critical theory. Because you certainly don't know how to describe what something is, only what it isn't.

Although I see Cult Christianity as a wicked body of Fake thought , I am well versed in the Cult thinking .

I love it when people like you become what they hate. It's poetic justice.

My grandfather was an ordained Churchman within the Anglican Church , I studied Comparative Theology as an Ancilliary Course at University and later I became a keen student of the Dead Sea Scrolls and those Gospels that were discarded at Nicea in 325AD .

I don't need your origin story.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

I don't need your origin story.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

You British really are wankers.

Not all.

 

[ding]

Not all.

View attachment 1255145

True. Not all. My bad.

 

[Hafar1014]

Christians believe hell exists. Jews and atheists don't. It's you guys that struggle with accountability. Christians believe in a cosmic accountability so to speak. You believe that all behaviors lead to an equal outcome... worms. I can't wait until you idiots Darwinize yourselves out of existence.

Christians believe in the get out of jail free card. Live a life of sin then repent and find Jesus. Where is the accountability?

 

[ShahdagMountains]

What do the Quakers believe in?

 

[Hafar1014]

What do the Quakers believe in?

They believe in talking about evil never doing anything about it. ITs religion of pacifists. Those who allow crime are as guilty as those who do crime

 

[ding]

Christians believe in the get out of jail free card. Live a life of sin then repent and find Jesus. Where is the accountability?

It's more complicated than that. If one loves God, they won't need rules because when they make a mistake they will move heaven and earth to rectify it. That's accountability.