Netanyahu's Great Magnanimous Peace Offer

[Epsilon Delta]

Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Palestinians reject Israeli terms

Palestinian officials have condemned a major policy speech by Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, saying it had "closed the door" on moves to reach an agreement between the two sides.

[...]

"We ask the world not to be fooled by his use of the term Palestinian state because he qualified it. He declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel, said refugees would not be negotiated and that settlements would remain."

[...]

Netanyahu told an audience at Bar-Ilan University in Tel Aviv on Sunday that he would require international guarantees that any Palestinian state would have no army or control of its airspace and borders, and would recognise Israel as a Jewish state.

[...]

Palestinian Objections:

Netanyahu's 'Palestinian state' would not include east Jerusalem, which was annexed by Israel after the 1967 Middle East war and is seen by the Palestinians as their future capital

It would not have many of the normal trappings of statehood under the vision: control of their own borders, airspace, a military and the right to sign treaties with other nations

Netanyahu refused to freeze all settlement activity in the West Bank, which it also occupied in 1967, despite US pressure and Israel agreeing to such a move in the 2003 "road map"

He stated that Palestinian families displaced from lands that are now in Israel would not be able to return, a key demand for the Palestinians

What is this shit? Seriously, what is this shit? What kind of "STATE" is this? Netanyahu can't even give them a fucking BANTUSTAN. How CYNICAL can one be to call this a "state"? And in case some here STILL don't understand by "we won't give up the settlements", THIS is what it means:

The Blue areas would become part of Israel and the brown areas would become the "STATE" of Palestine. Notice how they're CARVED INTO LITTLE PIECES? Cynicism of the very highest order. This is not a state.

 

[GHook93]

Bibi offer was almost a non-offer. While I think Israel CAN NOT agree to allow any so-called refugees to Israel. However, saying the Palestinians can not have an army and basically stating he won't discuss giving up Jerusalem is a non-endorse.

In my opinion Israel has to do it in one of two ways. Full negotiations with all parts or unilateral separation:

Option 1: Full Negotiation:
(1) All Parties:Declare that Israel will bring both parties to the table in ONE room. Meaning Fatah/PLO and Hamas. And then do.
(2) East Jerusalem:Sorry, but Israel will have to give up East Jerusalem. The Temple Mount has been sacrificed a while back. In time hopefully peace can allow Israelis to visit the Temple Mount and vice versa. At least the Israelis will get the Western Wall.
(3) Land Exchanges: State the all parties will negotiate "trading" land in the West Bank for land the Palestinians desire, including a land bridge from Gaza to WB and the Arab Triangle. Either both parties agree to the land exchange or the land currently goes to where the land lies! In other words any settlements in the West Bank becomes part of Palestine if no trade is agreed upon.
(4) Jews in Palestine and Arabs in Israel: Both parties will agree that the Jews that remain in the West Bank will be citizens of Palestine not Israel and have the option to remain in their homes and will receive equal protection under PLO law. The Israeli Arabs vice versa.
(5) Palestinian Refugees: Hamas/Fatah give up their demand that any so called Refugee gets settled into Israel. Rather they are either settled in the First Ever Palestine, Arab Lands or any suitor.
(6) Palestine and Israel sign a full peace and trade deal: Palestine agrees to recognize Israel as a free independent state that has the right to exist for all ISRAEL. The stupidity in demanding it be recognized as a Jewish State is amazing, since if Israel loses a its Jewish majority, then its not a Jewish state anymore regardless of how its recognized. The IDF leaves all of Palestine and the Palestinians control their own borders.

Both parties give up more than they want and neither is by far perfect for either party. However, a settlement is reached!

OR

Option 2: Unilateral Israel Moves:
(1) Israel finishes a layered fences around all land they claim to have. Layer one: Car barrel. Layer two: Mine Field - clearly marked in Arabic, English and Jewish. Layer three: A metal barbwire fence. Layer four: motion sensors and camera, along with underground tunnel locators. Layer Five: Large Wall.
(2) Have this go around all lands Israel intends to "take" and "give up." Equal land given for equal land taken. Give the Arab triangle and other border lands along with a land bridge from G to WB for the settlements and East Jerusalem.
(3) Pulls back comely from the entire West Bank and Gaza and allow the borders to be comely controlled by the Palestinians.
(4) Declare the First Ever Palestine independent and free to do as they choose. While also making a statement that any attacks will be dealt with with extreme prejudice and harshness. All missiles attacks regardless of damage will be considered acts of war requiring a response.
(5) Go to the UN and have the declare the Free independent State of Palestine.
(6) Declare the Palestinian refugee problem the Palestinians problem.
(7) Israel makes a demand from all Jews, Muslims and Christians living in Israel must accept Israel citizenship and affirm loyalty to Israel. All Israeli citizens must submit to mandatory military conscription, this includes Orthodox Jews (who are currently exempt) as well as Muslims.
(8) Then prepare for war because its coming.


I prefer option 1

 

[toomuchtime_]

Bibi offer was almost a non-offer. While I think Israel CAN NOT agree to allow any so-called refugees to Israel. However, saying the Palestinians can not have an army and basically stating he won't discuss giving up Jerusalem is a non-endorse.

In my opinion Israel has to do it in one of two ways. Full negotiations with all parts or unilateral separation:

Option 1: Full Negotiation:
(1) All Parties:Declare that Israel will bring both parties to the table in ONE room. Meaning Fatah/PLO and Hamas. And then do.
(2) East Jerusalem:Sorry, but Israel will have to give up East Jerusalem. The Temple Mount has been sacrificed a while back. In time hopefully peace can allow Israelis to visit the Temple Mount and vice versa. At least the Israelis will get the Western Wall.
(3) Land Exchanges: State the all parties will negotiate "trading" land in the West Bank for land the Palestinians desire, including a land bridge from Gaza to WB and the Arab Triangle. Either both parties agree to the land exchange or the land currently goes to where the land lies! In other words any settlements in the West Bank becomes part of Palestine if no trade is agreed upon.
(4) Jews in Palestine and Arabs in Israel: Both parties will agree that the Jews that remain in the West Bank will be citizens of Palestine not Israel and have the option to remain in their homes and will receive equal protection under PLO law. The Israeli Arabs vice versa.
(5) Palestinian Refugees: Hamas/Fatah give up their demand that any so called Refugee gets settled into Israel. Rather they are either settled in the First Ever Palestine, Arab Lands or any suitor.
(6) Palestine and Israel sign a full peace and trade deal: Palestine agrees to recognize Israel as a free independent state that has the right to exist for all ISRAEL. The stupidity in demanding it be recognized as a Jewish State is amazing, since if Israel loses a its Jewish majority, then its not a Jewish state anymore regardless of how its recognized. The IDF leaves all of Palestine and the Palestinians control their own borders.

Both parties give up more than they want and neither is by far perfect for either party. However, a settlement is reached!

OR

Option 2: Unilateral Israel Moves:
(1) Israel finishes a layered fences around all land they claim to have. Layer one: Car barrel. Layer two: Mine Field - clearly marked in Arabic, English and Jewish. Layer three: A metal barbwire fence. Layer four: motion sensors and camera, along with underground tunnel locators. Layer Five: Large Wall.
(2) Have this go around all lands Israel intends to "take" and "give up." Equal land given for equal land taken. Give the Arab triangle and other border lands along with a land bridge from G to WB for the settlements and East Jerusalem.
(3) Pulls back comely from the entire West Bank and Gaza and allow the borders to be comely controlled by the Palestinians.
(4) Declare the First Ever Palestine independent and free to do as they choose. While also making a statement that any attacks will be dealt with with extreme prejudice and harshness. All missiles attacks regardless of damage will be considered acts of war requiring a response.
(5) Go to the UN and have the declare the Free independent State of Palestine.
(6) Declare the Palestinian refugee problem the Palestinians problem.
(7) Israel makes a demand from all Jews, Muslims and Christians living in Israel must accept Israel citizenship and affirm loyalty to Israel. All Israeli citizens must submit to mandatory military conscription, this includes Orthodox Jews (who are currently exempt) as well as Muslims.
(8) Then prepare for war because its coming.


I prefer option 1

Bibi's speech was not for the Palestinians, it was for Obama. Obama called for two states living in peace and security. If not with a demilitarized Palestinian state, how would you assure peace and security? Obama was talking in slogans. Bibi was explaining the reality of the situation to him.

 

[DavidS]

You see - this is the problem with a two-state solution. There is no such thing as "refugees." They cannot have Jerusalem as their capitol - it's currently taken by Israel. Ramallah seems like a good fit. This country is being offered to them because of terrorism - the world is finally bowing to terrorists and people seem to have no problem with that.

 

[GHook93]

You see - this is the problem with a two-state solution. There is no such thing as "refugees." They cannot have Jerusalem as their capitol - it's currently taken by Israel. Ramallah seems like a good fit. This country is being offered to them because of terrorism - the world is finally bowing to terrorists and people seem to have no problem with that.

They are going to have to give up something soon or later.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You see - this is the problem with a two-state solution. There is no such thing as "refugees." They cannot have Jerusalem as their capitol - it's currently taken by Israel. Ramallah seems like a good fit. This country is being offered to them because of terrorism - the world is finally bowing to terrorists and people seem to have no problem with that.

They are going to have to give up something soon or later.

Israel has already given up a lot and gotten nothing in return. The PA was created by Israel and all the area over which it has jurisdiction was given to it by Israel. Keep in mind that before Oslo, the Israeli government was the government of the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinians have not made a single concession on any issue since signing the first Oslo Accords, even arguing to this day that the two temples were never in Jerusalem. While the PLO did recognize Israel's right to exist, although not as a Jewish state, in some of its documents, the Hamas Covenant and the Fatah Constitution continue to call for the destruction of Israel, although Fatah did accommodate western pressures by removing its constitution from its website. There is absolutely no reason to think that the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and that being the case, there is absolutely no reason for Israel to give anything else up unless it is getting something of value in return.

Addressing the practical side of the Jerusalem issue, Rabin insisted that he would never compromise on Jerusalem and when Peres was PM he repeated this pledge and Bibi and Sharon, of course, did the same. When Barak and Olmert offered to give up parts of east Jerusalem, polls showed that such a deal would not have been approved by Israeli voters. Since the Palestinians and the Arab world in general offer nothing in return, what could possibly induce Israeli voters to change their minds?

 

[DavidS]

You see - this is the problem with a two-state solution. There is no such thing as "refugees." They cannot have Jerusalem as their capitol - it's currently taken by Israel. Ramallah seems like a good fit. This country is being offered to them because of terrorism - the world is finally bowing to terrorists and people seem to have no problem with that.

They are going to have to give up something soon or later.

They are. They're giving them parts of the West Bank which belong to Israel. Israel is, once again, giving up land for peace. Same story, different decade.

 

[Shogun]

typical zionist jews debating over how much NOT to give someone.


classic!


Bibi will inadvertently become the reason zionism loses it's popularity for non-jews. The longer you people squabble over just how much irony you convey in dealing with palis the sooner the rest of us start asking why jews can have their own racist state when Nazis, South Africans, and Southerners couldn't. Which, of course, will initiate the scrapping of the segregated two state solution and usher in the era of the shared single state. Which, as we all know, you racist jewish turd puppets sure as HELL don't want. I look forward to when your ****** class rises up and claims their validity much like our American ****** class did.

 

[DavidS]

typical zionist jews debating over how much NOT to give someone.

classic!

Bibi will inadvertently become the reason zionism loses it's popularity for non-jews. The longer you people squabble over just how much irony you convey in dealing with palis the sooner the rest of us start asking why jews can have their own racist state when Nazis, South Africans, and Southerners couldn't. Which, of course, will initiate the scrapping of the segregated two state solution and usher in the era of the shared single state. Which, as we all know, you racist jewish turd puppets sure as HELL don't want. I look forward to when your ****** class rises up and claims their validity much like our American ****** class did.

You know what's amazing. 20 years ago the Israelis would never consider even acknowledging the idea of a Palestinian State. Why should we give something to them that they already have 23 of?

So, the most conservative Jewish leader in recent history is finally willing to bend and say "Okay, here you go, we'll give you a Palestinian State, but it has to be under these conditions." And here we have anti-Israel Shogun spouting off his typical nonsense even though Israel has officially finally accepted the idea!

Do you really expect Israel to be okay with a militarized Palestinian state living next to it? Do we not have enough problems with Gaza already?

Then again, if we do allow them to build up a military and they decide to attack Israel, Israel can invade it and annex the land like it should have done 42 years ago!

On second thought - yes, let's give these dogs a military! I'm all for it! Militarize the new Palestine!

 

[Shogun]

You know what's amazing. 20 years ago the Israelis would never consider even acknowledging the idea of a Palestinian State. Why should we give something to them that they already have 23 of?

For the exact same reason we here in the US don't marginalize blacks even if they have their own fucking continent. Yours is a war of public opinion. and you are losing just like South Africans did.


So, the most conservative Jewish leader in recent history is finally willing to bend and say "Okay, here you go, we'll give you a Palestinian State, but it has to be under these conditions." And here we have anti-Israel Shogun spouting off his typical nonsense even though Israel has officially finally accepted the idea!

Israel accepted the idea because the US told her what her place is in the pecking order. Again, WE HERE IN THE US are not about to marginalize an ethic population just because a bunch of assholes thinks that race dictates social boundaries. Enjoy, it's the reason you get to live here without being hunted down and evicted from this white nation you enjoy.


Do you really expect Israel to be okay with a militarized Palestinian state living next to it? Do we not have enough problems with Gaza already?

yes, in fact I do. Bibi is doing nothing but setting up impossible standards that he thinks will avoid the reality of a pali state. It's pretty obvious and we both know that the Alpha dog, the US, will help him come to cope with the reality of humanity beyond your racist zionism.


Then again, if we do allow them to build up a military and they decide to attack Israel, Israel can invade it and annex the land like it should have done 42 years ago!


You sound like a wishful thinking nazi but who is really shocked that you pray for killing your ****** class off? Your ability to detect irony must have been circumcised with half of your dick.



On second thought - yes, let's give these dogs a military! I'm all for it! Militarize the new Palestine!


DOGS, eh cockroach? It's funny how you cry about being labeled but have no qualms labeling arabs. Indeed, were it not for a jewish jesus your kind would have been dealt with long ago. Enjoy it while you have it, guy! Even a nazi once had his day in the sun!

 

[GHook93]

You see - this is the problem with a two-state solution. There is no such thing as "refugees." They cannot have Jerusalem as their capitol - it's currently taken by Israel. Ramallah seems like a good fit. This country is being offered to them because of terrorism - the world is finally bowing to terrorists and people seem to have no problem with that.

They are going to have to give up something soon or later.

Israel has already given up a lot and gotten nothing in return. The PA was created by Israel and all the area over which it has jurisdiction was given to it by Israel. Keep in mind that before Oslo, the Israeli government was the government of the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinians have not made a single concession on any issue since signing the first Oslo Accords, even arguing to this day that the two temples were never in Jerusalem. While the PLO did recognize Israel's right to exist, although not as a Jewish state, in some of its documents, the Hamas Covenant and the Fatah Constitution continue to call for the destruction of Israel, although Fatah did accommodate western pressures by removing its constitution from its website. There is absolutely no reason to think that the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and that being the case, there is absolutely no reason for Israel to give anything else up unless it is getting something of value in return.

Addressing the practical side of the Jerusalem issue, Rabin insisted that he would never compromise on Jerusalem and when Peres was PM he repeated this pledge and Bibi and Sharon, of course, did the same. When Barak and Olmert offered to give up parts of east Jerusalem, polls showed that such a deal would not have been approved by Israeli voters. Since the Palestinians and the Arab world in general offer nothing in return, what could possibly induce Israeli voters to change their minds?

It will be painful concessions on both sides. Israel is not getting Nothing! They are moving towards peace. America, WE, will not wait forever. Why has Europe turned on Israel, because they Jews are becoming less and less important of a voting base and the Arab/Muslims are becoming their biggest minoirty. That won't be reversed. What happens in America when Muslims number 20 or 50 million? What happens if they become a key demographic is NY, CA, FL and MI! American attitude will reflect Europe. Imagine when Russia becomes majority Muslim? What happens then?

Israel, like all nation, need other countries support. They need to do something now!

 

[Shogun]

move to Russia.. I've posted the op ed from the jew post suggesting that very thing.

 

[toomuchtime_]

They are going to have to give up something soon or later.

Israel has already given up a lot and gotten nothing in return. The PA was created by Israel and all the area over which it has jurisdiction was given to it by Israel. Keep in mind that before Oslo, the Israeli government was the government of the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinians have not made a single concession on any issue since signing the first Oslo Accords, even arguing to this day that the two temples were never in Jerusalem. While the PLO did recognize Israel's right to exist, although not as a Jewish state, in some of its documents, the Hamas Covenant and the Fatah Constitution continue to call for the destruction of Israel, although Fatah did accommodate western pressures by removing its constitution from its website. There is absolutely no reason to think that the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and that being the case, there is absolutely no reason for Israel to give anything else up unless it is getting something of value in return.

Addressing the practical side of the Jerusalem issue, Rabin insisted that he would never compromise on Jerusalem and when Peres was PM he repeated this pledge and Bibi and Sharon, of course, did the same. When Barak and Olmert offered to give up parts of east Jerusalem, polls showed that such a deal would not have been approved by Israeli voters. Since the Palestinians and the Arab world in general offer nothing in return, what could possibly induce Israeli voters to change their minds?

It will be painful concessions on both sides. Israel is not getting Nothing! They are moving towards peace. America, WE, will not wait forever. Why has Europe turned on Israel, because they Jews are becoming less and less important of a voting base and the Arab/Muslims are becoming their biggest minoirty. That won't be reversed. What happens in America when Muslims number 20 or 50 million? What happens if they become a key demographic is NY, CA, FL and MI! American attitude will reflect Europe. Imagine when Russia becomes majority Muslim? What happens then?

Israel, like all nation, need other countries support. They need to do something now!

These are serious concerns, but the important thing to keep in mind is that there is absolutely no reason to believe the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and this is the concern that lies at the heart of Netanyahu's speech.

Setting the issue of Jerusalem aside for a moment, and recognizing that the settlement issue can be equitably resolved by a land swap of pre 1967 Israeli land for the three largest settlement blocs, this leaves the single most critical issue and the one the Arabs have absolutely refused to yield an inch on, giving up the ambition of taking over Israel either through violence or by insisting on settling the refugees in Israel. Unless the Arabs are willing to yield on these two things, the negotiations are not a peace process and Israel has nothing to gain by conceding anything on any other issue.

On the other hand, if the Palestinians and the greater Arab world were to finally yield on these two issues, imo, a compromise on Jerusalem could be reached; for example, each state having its capital in east Jerusalem and the citizens of each state being granted by treaty special rights in those parts of east Jerusalem under the sovereign control of the other state. But such an arrangement would require the kind of real commitment to peace that would be signified by the Arabs finally recognizing Israel as a Jewish state.

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
These are serious concerns, but the important thing to keep in mind is that there is absolutely no reason to believe the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and this is the concern that lies at the heart of Netanyahu's speech.

Setting the issue of Jerusalem aside for a moment, and recognizing that the settlement issue can be equitably resolved by a land swap of pre 1967 Israeli land for the three largest settlement blocs, this leaves the single most critical issue and the one the Arabs have absolutely refused to yield an inch on, giving up the ambition of taking over Israel either through violence or by insisting on settling the refugees in Israel. Unless the Arabs are willing to yield on these two things, the negotiations are not a peace process and Israel has nothing to gain by conceding anything on any other issue.

On the other hand, if the Palestinians and the greater Arab world were to finally yield on these two issues, imo, a compromise on Jerusalem could be reached; for example, each state having its capital in east Jerusalem and the citizens of each state being granted by treaty special rights in those parts of east Jerusalem under the sovereign control of the other state. But such an arrangement would require the kind of real commitment to peace that would be signified by the Arabs finally recognizing Israel as a Jewish state.

You have all but admitted that the two state solution is dead and buried and, in doing so, you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

We are, indeed, witnessing now the last phase of Zionism.

During the next decades we're gonna see the gradual evolution of Israel from a jewish racial dictatorship to a state of citizens.

 

[GHook93]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
These are serious concerns, but the important thing to keep in mind is that there is absolutely no reason to believe the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and this is the concern that lies at the heart of Netanyahu's speech.

Setting the issue of Jerusalem aside for a moment, and recognizing that the settlement issue can be equitably resolved by a land swap of pre 1967 Israeli land for the three largest settlement blocs, this leaves the single most critical issue and the one the Arabs have absolutely refused to yield an inch on, giving up the ambition of taking over Israel either through violence or by insisting on settling the refugees in Israel. Unless the Arabs are willing to yield on these two things, the negotiations are not a peace process and Israel has nothing to gain by conceding anything on any other issue.

On the other hand, if the Palestinians and the greater Arab world were to finally yield on these two issues, imo, a compromise on Jerusalem could be reached; for example, each state having its capital in east Jerusalem and the citizens of each state being granted by treaty special rights in those parts of east Jerusalem under the sovereign control of the other state. But such an arrangement would require the kind of real commitment to peace that would be signified by the Arabs finally recognizing Israel as a Jewish state.

You have all but admitted that the two state solution is dead and buried and, in doing so, you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

We are, indeed, witnessing now the last phase of Zionism.

During the next decades we're gonna see the gradual evolution of Israel from a jewish racial dictatorship to a state of citizens.

Actually if the 2 state solution is not adopted and the 1 state solution is (meaning the WB and G get annex,, then you will see the Jewish Free Democratic society morph into Lebanon (the once majority Christians flee the country and become more and more of a minority that is disappearing)!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
These are serious concerns, but the important thing to keep in mind is that there is absolutely no reason to believe the creation of a Palestinian state will lead to peace, and this is the concern that lies at the heart of Netanyahu's speech.

Setting the issue of Jerusalem aside for a moment, and recognizing that the settlement issue can be equitably resolved by a land swap of pre 1967 Israeli land for the three largest settlement blocs, this leaves the single most critical issue and the one the Arabs have absolutely refused to yield an inch on, giving up the ambition of taking over Israel either through violence or by insisting on settling the refugees in Israel. Unless the Arabs are willing to yield on these two things, the negotiations are not a peace process and Israel has nothing to gain by conceding anything on any other issue.

On the other hand, if the Palestinians and the greater Arab world were to finally yield on these two issues, imo, a compromise on Jerusalem could be reached; for example, each state having its capital in east Jerusalem and the citizens of each state being granted by treaty special rights in those parts of east Jerusalem under the sovereign control of the other state. But such an arrangement would require the kind of real commitment to peace that would be signified by the Arabs finally recognizing Israel as a Jewish state.

You have all but admitted that the two state solution is dead and buried and, in doing so, you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

We are, indeed, witnessing now the last phase of Zionism.

During the next decades we're gonna see the gradual evolution of Israel from a jewish racial dictatorship to a state of citizens.

Actually if the 2 state solution is not adopted and the 1 state solution is (meaning the WB and G get annex,, then you will see the Jewish Free Democratic society morph into Lebanon (the once majority Christians flee the country and become more and more of a minority that is disappearing)!

Well, they are not going to be annexed, but to play the game, Israel could claim that since the West Bank residents were Jordanian citizens before the Six Day War, Israel still recognizes them as such and give them residency status in the West Bank but not citizenship in Israel. Israel would have recognized their full political rights as Jordanian citizens, and if Jordan refused them those rights, well, that would be a problem between the Palestinians and the Jordanian government which Israel should stay out of.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Bibi offer was almost a non-offer. While I think Israel CAN NOT agree to allow any so-called refugees to Israel. However, saying the Palestinians can not have an army and basically stating he won't discuss giving up Jerusalem is a non-endorse.

In my opinion Israel has to do it in one of two ways. Full negotiations with all parts or unilateral separation:

Option 1: Full Negotiation:
(1) All Parties:Declare that Israel will bring both parties to the table in ONE room. Meaning Fatah/PLO and Hamas. And then do.
(2) East Jerusalem:Sorry, but Israel will have to give up East Jerusalem. The Temple Mount has been sacrificed a while back. In time hopefully peace can allow Israelis to visit the Temple Mount and vice versa. At least the Israelis will get the Western Wall.
(3) Land Exchanges: State the all parties will negotiate "trading" land in the West Bank for land the Palestinians desire, including a land bridge from Gaza to WB and the Arab Triangle. Either both parties agree to the land exchange or the land currently goes to where the land lies! In other words any settlements in the West Bank becomes part of Palestine if no trade is agreed upon.
(4) Jews in Palestine and Arabs in Israel: Both parties will agree that the Jews that remain in the West Bank will be citizens of Palestine not Israel and have the option to remain in their homes and will receive equal protection under PLO law. The Israeli Arabs vice versa.
(5) Palestinian Refugees: Hamas/Fatah give up their demand that any so called Refugee gets settled into Israel. Rather they are either settled in the First Ever Palestine, Arab Lands or any suitor.
(6) Palestine and Israel sign a full peace and trade deal: Palestine agrees to recognize Israel as a free independent state that has the right to exist for all ISRAEL. The stupidity in demanding it be recognized as a Jewish State is amazing, since if Israel loses a its Jewish majority, then its not a Jewish state anymore regardless of how its recognized. The IDF leaves all of Palestine and the Palestinians control their own borders.

I prefer option 1

YES, dude. YES. That seems like a fair compromise. I mean, with East Jerusalem as the Capital, that would be a HUGE step forward. I think that and the settlements are really the key things Israel has to give up. And the refugees back into Israel will have to be the key thing that the Palestinians are gonna have to give up. If some of those really heavily Jewish-settled portions on Israel-WB border could be turned into a land bridge WB-Gaza, it would be a huge help. But that would be the only way to deal with the settlements, only those big ones on the border. All of the ones that are seriously in the middle of the West Bank HAVE to go. And the israeli-only highways criss-crossing the WB HAVE to go, and the military bases on the east side of the West Bank are just completely unacceptable. The West Bank will NEED to have territorial integrity and full access to its water resources if a free Palestine is to make any sense at all. That Jews in Palestine and Arabs in Israel should both have full and equal rights is a no-brainer; that would be of course the big hope.

Do you think the majority of Jews/Israelis agree with you on the proposal that you just outlined, Ghook?

 

[strollingbones]

he could care less...just trying to look like he is capable of

"thinking outside the box"

 

[rhodescholar]

You have all but admitted that the two state solution is dead and buried and, in doing so, you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

We are, indeed, witnessing now the last phase of Zionism.

During the next decades we're gonna see the gradual evolution of Israel from a jewish racial dictatorship to a state of citizens.

Whatever you say, douchebag. Got an understanding of what I think of you? Now STFU moron and get out of this thread.

Now then, this poster is so fucking wrong, but no point in arguing with someone this stupid...

 

[rhodescholar]

YES, dude. YES. That seems like a fair compromise. I mean, with East Jerusalem as the Capital, that would be a HUGE step forward. I think that and the settlements are really the key things Israel has to give up. And the refugees back into Israel will have to be the key thing that the Palestinians are gonna have to give up. If some of those really heavily Jewish-settled portions on Israel-WB border could be turned into a land bridge WB-Gaza, it would be a huge help. But that would be the only way to deal with the settlements, only those big ones on the border. All of the ones that are seriously in the middle of the West Bank HAVE to go. And the israeli-only highways criss-crossing the WB HAVE to go, and the military bases on the east side of the West Bank are just completely unacceptable. The West Bank will NEED to have territorial integrity and full access to its water resources if a free Palestine is to make any sense at all. That Jews in Palestine and Arabs in Israel should both have full and equal rights is a no-brainer; that would be of course the big hope.

Do you think the majority of Jews/Israelis agree with you on the proposal that you just outlined, Ghook?

My Option 1:
ALL, and I mean ALL, west bank settlements will be given back to the arabs, including the large blocs.

The gaza strip, since it is entirely NOT viable as a stand-alone entity, will be emptied of arabs, and turned over to israel.

Israel will slice off a chunk of the Negev of equal size in trade for the Gaza strip, and will return the Golan to Syria.

Not one arab muslim residing in a refugee camp outside of the WB will be allowed into the "new" greenline (and now hardline) Israel, that's a non-starter.

The water will be rationed in alignment with the plan structured in a balanced format currently between israel and jordan, with the new pal state added into the mix.

The new pal state will be de-militarized for 10 years, with a gradual allowance - with good behavior - of a small armed force.

The new pal state will have commercial air rights only, and incorporated into the IAF and Israeli commercial airline guidance systems. This is a no-brainer since we are talking Brooklyn-Queens distance, no other solution is manageable from a practical standpoint.

Option 2:

Israel, after 60 years of having its women and children murdered, expels all the arab muslims out of the Gaza strip into the ocean, and out of the WB into Jordan. Perhaps they expel a large portion of israeli arabs as well, particularly from areas in which past loyalties have not been friendly to israel.

Israel forms a military border around itself like a fortress, and all missile attacks/mortars are responded to with a 10-1 firepower contingent ratio.

I am willing to try Option 1 first, but having spent the last 20+ years in military operations, most of which were clandestine in nature working with/alongside/for/against arab muslims, I doubt that peace will be attainable.

Not until there is a democratic, educated arab muslim majority in the middle east, after a muslim Enlightenment, will there be peace there...