Man Cannot Be Suitably Moral or Good without God. Here's why:

[Hollie]

My understanding is that it is Jewish folklore, a story that was passed down word-of-mouth in the Jewish community. Impossible to know if it is true, or a made-up story about Abraham. Remember, Abraham was the first we know of that insisted there was only One God, the God of all--not just the God of a single nation, so while the narrative fits, the story did not make it into the Bible.

The story of Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor was passed down by word of mouth, also. Too bad the fable of Robin Hood, Sherwood Forest and Friar Tuck didn’t make one of the edits to the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

The story of Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor was passed down by word of mouth, also. Too bad the fable of Robin Hood, Sherwood Forest and Friar Tuck didn’t make one of the edits to the Bible.

Chronicles from medieval time seem to think a real Robin Hood lived in the twelfth or thirteenth centuries--well after the books of the Bible were decided.

Contemporary scholars have not been able to verify whether the story of Robin Hood was based on a real character.

 

[Hollie]

Chronicles from medieval time seem to think a real Robin Hood lived in the twelfth or thirteenth centuries--well after the books of the Bible were decided.

Contemporary scholars have not been able to verify whether the story of Robin Hood was based on a real character.

Real characters tied to real events seem to get a pass with the biblically minded. The tale of Robin Hood would be a worthy addition to the tale of Job, for example.

 

[Meriweather]

The tale of Robin Hood would be a worthy addition to the tale of Job, for example.

Excellent comparison. Job was a play, probably around 2200 B.C. Robin Hood was also a play--the earliest script dates to the 1470s.

 

[Mashmont]

There are atheists in my family. I am married to an atheist. No atheist that I know has ever led anyone into alcoholism, drug abuse, broken relationships, and suicides.

I consider your question as unfair as someone asking, "If Catholicism is the correct belief, why were even a small percentage of priests guilty of pedophilia?"

The fact that you don't know atheist alcoholics, drug abusers or suicide victims doesn't negate the fact that atheists lead all belief groups in all three. I'm sure you understand that.

 

[Hollie]

The fact that you don't know atheist alcoholics, drug abusers or suicide victims doesn't negate the fact that atheists lead all belief groups in all three. I'm sure you understand that.

It’s always important to fact-check the ramblings of religious extremists because they tend to be dishonest.

You offer nothing to support your comment and when you use the term “belief groups”, it suggests you have been scouring the fundamentalist creation ministries for your propaganda.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm sure you understand that.

What I understand is that it is not right to broad-brush any group. I also understand statistics can be manipulated.

 

[Feeding Crows]

You are of the mind that some rich person should offer to buy a Vatican treasure so that the Church can purchase food and shelter for the poor?

Let's skip the middleman. Say someone has money and wants to now purchase a treasure given to the Catholic Church centuries ago.

You are saying the Church should accept the offer and give the money to the poor. Why aren't you recommending that someone with enough money to purchase a Church treasure should instead give that purchase price directly to the poor?

Because the Church is supposed to be doing that. And rich people should be doing it too. And then help the church should they need it. But they don't.

 

[Feeding Crows]

So there's a lot of money that is not being spread to needy people.

The church holds it.

 

[Feeding Crows]

I do a lot of work to help needy people. What I do is absolutely negligible. I do a millionth of what is necessary. But the Church has all the funds to do the right thing. And they don't.

 

[Mashmont]

What I understand is that it is not right to broad-brush any group. I also understand statistics can be manipulated.

Well, I think it's intelligent to look for trends. I look for things that work. And the trend I notice is the people I go to church with, several hundred of them, are really nice, solid and together people, with seemingly few if exceptions. And then I look at the demeanor of people who are hostile to Christianity, and they seem less together and less pleasant. The studies I have looked at regarding happiness, drug abuse, and suicide seem to fit what I have observed. This is not to say there aren't exceptions, as you certainly have seen.

I was wondering if you and your husband ever had difficulties because of your religious differences, as in raising children. For me, I couldn't have married an atheist or even a non-Catholic, and the reason was the silent conflict between my parents. My father was Catholic, my mother was not. They apparently didn't address this difference before marriage, so when it came time for my oldest sister to be baptized, there was disagreement. This was the 1950s, and my father said how it would be, and my mother dutifully, but resentfully went along. So all those years, my mother took us to Mass, but never herself participated, and was always somewhat negative towards the church. When I was to be married, I didn't want any part of that. I told my future wife that I had to marry a Catholic, and she converted. And we haven't had problems because of that except we didn't do 'super Catholic' things together. We went to weekly Mass, said grace, and had a crucifix in the house, but we never said the rosary together as a family or went to reconciliation as a family except for a few times. So in a sense, I didn't go full throttle out of deference to my wife. I didn't want to 'come on too strong'. So in that regard our situation wasn't 100% ideal, but it was pretty good.

 

[Mashmont]

Because the Church is supposed to be doing that. And rich people should be doing it too. And then help the church should they need it. But they don't.

That's good that you do charity work, but the church has many many charity programs. It does more good for more people than any organization in the history of the world. Just look at the legions of priests and sisters who have selflessly devoted their lives to others in exchange for subsistence.

 

[Hollie]

Well, I think it's intelligent to look for trends. I look for things that work. And the trend I notice is the people I go to church with, several hundred of them, are really nice, solid and together people, with seemingly few if exceptions. And then I look at the demeanor of people who are hostile to Christianity, and they seem less together and less pleasant. The studies I have looked at regarding happiness, drug abuse, and suicide seem to fit what I have observed. This is not to say there aren't exceptions, as you certainly have seen.

I was wondering if you ever tried to persuade your husband out of atheism or if you want him out of atheism. And has the difference ever been a problem for you, as in raising children? For me, I couldn't have married an atheist or even a non-Catholic, and the reason was the silent conflict between my parents. My father was Catholic, my mother was not. They apparently didn't address this difference before marriage, so when it came time for my oldest sister to be baptized, there was disagreement. This was the 1950s, and my father said how it would be, and my mother dutifully, but resentfully went along. So all those years, my mother took us to Mass, but never herself participated, and was always somewhat negative towards the church. When I was to be married, I didn't want any part of that. I told my future wife that I had to marry a Catholic, and she converted. And we haven't had problems because of that except we didn't do 'super Catholic' things together. We went to weekly Mass, said grace, and had a crucifix in the house, but we never said the rosary together as a family or went to reconciliation as a family except for a few times. So in a sense, I didn't go full throttle out of deference to my wife. I didn't want to 'come on too strong'. So in that regard our situation wasn't 100% ideal, but it was pretty good.

The above diatribe seems to confirm the studies I’ve seen where the hyper-religious tend to be angry, depressed, insular and subject to Cult indoctrination. The mass suicides we see so often involve religious Cults. There is a personality type that seems especially vulnerable to manipulation by fear and the power of suggestion by an authority figure.

 

[Meriweather]

Because the Church is supposed to be doing that. And rich people should be doing it too. And then help the church should they need it. But they don't.

The Church is doing that. For example, during the Pandemic alone, Catholic Charities contributed over 400 million to help those in need. As far as educating and providing medical care for those in need, the Catholic Church is the largest non-government contributor.

Five million a year make a pilgrimage to the Vatican each year, inspired by the history of their faith. The Church contributes to the spiritual needs of its people as well.

The Church already cares and provides for both--physical needs and spiritual needs. Man does not live by bread alone. If everything in the Vatican went to the poor...we would still have the poor. The poor will always be with us, and Catholics contribute to those in need. Always have. It is what we do.

 

[Meriweather]

I do a lot of work to help needy people. What I do is absolutely negligible. I do a millionth of what is necessary. But the Church has all the funds to do the right thing. And they don't.

The Church is doing the right thing. Every day parishioners do a lot of work to help the poor because we are the Church, the Body of Christ. Again, if you are so concerned about the poor, have the rich "buy" a Vatican treasure, leave it exactly where it is, with that money going to the poor.

By the way...at the time much of the art work, etc., was given to the Church, it didn't have the value it holds today. They are keepsakes and gifts that those who passed on wanted the Vatican to have--people I am sure that during their lives, gave to the poor as well. Can you see that, or do you only have
dollar signs in your eyes?

Of all the wealth in the world, the Vatican's share does not even amount to 1%. In fact, it barely reaches 1% of 1%. No need for you to raid the Vatican. The world has plenty.

 

[Meriweather]

I was wondering if you and your husband ever had difficulties because of your religious differences, as in raising children.

Not a one. Before we were married my husband broached the subject, suggesting we don't do anything about religion and let any children make up their own minds once they were adults. I said that would work for me providing we didn't do anything about sports either, especially football (which he loves) and let any children wait until they were adults before trying sports.

I love my faith, my husband loves his sports--and the children grew up participating in both. It is natural for parents to share what they love with their children--no need to deprive them of that.

 

[Feeding Crows]

The Church is doing the right thing. Every day parishioners do a lot of work to help the poor because we are the Church, the Body of Christ. Again, if you are so concerned about the poor, have the rich "buy" a Vatican treasure, leave it exactly where it is, with that money going to the poor.

By the way...at the time much of the art work, etc., was given to the Church, it didn't have the value it holds today. They are keepsakes and gifts that those who passed on wanted the Vatican to have--people I am sure that during their lives, gave to the poor as well. Can you see that, or do you only have
dollar signs in your eyes?

Of all the wealth in the world, the Vatican's share does not even amount to 1%. In fact, it barely reaches 1% of 1%. No need for you to raid the Vatican. The world has plenty.

I'm sorry Meri, I disagree.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm sorry Meri, I disagree.

You do not have to be sorry for disagreeing! You see one side--I see all the others. (I am kidding, of course.)

 

[Feeding Crows]

That's good that you do charity work, but the church has many many charity programs. It does more good for more people than any organization in the history of the world. Just look at the legions of priests and sisters who have selflessly devoted their lives to others in exchange for subsistence.

And look at all the people that are starving and living terrible lives.

 

[Feeding Crows]

shite, if i had control of that money, all the starvation would be over within a year. And perpetuated for many years.