Man Cannot Be Suitably Moral or Good without God. Here's why:

[Feeding Crows]

But no, they want the fine wine and the really expensive food in the vatican. It's not going to poor peeeps.
Per another poster, Jesus said that the spoils of wealth should go to him.

 

[Mashmont]

But no, they want the fine wine and the really expensive food in the vatican. It's not going to poor peeeps.
Per another poster, Jesus said that the spoils of wealth should go to him.

The pope doesn't live like that. Very few do.
Again, do you object to Democrats in Congress and WH living the high life on the taxpayer dime? You should. That's your money. The RCC's is not.

 

[Mashmont]

Not a one. Before we were married my husband broached the subject, suggesting we don't do anything about religion and let any children make up their own minds once they were adults. I said that would work for me providing we didn't do anything about sports either, especially football (which he loves) and let any children wait until they were adults before trying sports.

I love my faith, my husband loves his sports--and the children grew up participating in both. It is natural for parents to share what they love with their children--no need to deprive them of that.

So the children weren't raised Catholic and didn't attend Mass with you while growing up?

 

[Meriweather]

if i had control of that money, all the starvation would be over within a year.

Throwing money at a problem has never worked.

 

[Meriweather]

So the children weren't raised Catholic and didn't attend Mass with you while growing up?

Sad to report the children only attended Mass me every Sunday and Holy Day as well as some weekday Masses. They went to confession, they received communion and prayed the rosary, and the Stations of the Cross. They were Altar Servers--one way past the usual age because those two years they were always short Altar Servers. She was the one they called when they needed Altar Servers for funerals. The other did pick-up work around the Church and was very good at it. That expanded to doing the same at local parks.

They also participated in sports--softball, football, soccer, basketball, etc., although they never got into the routine of sitting down and watching an entire football (or baseball) game on TV. On the other hand, we all loved attending semi-pro baseball games in our area.

As I said in my previous post, the best parents share what they love with their children. And that is what we both did.

 

[Mashmont]

Sad to report the children only attended Mass me every Sunday and Holy Day as well as some weekday Masses. They went to confession, they received communion and prayed the rosary, and the Stations of the Cross. They were Altar Servers--one way past the usual age because those two years they were always short Altar Servers. She was the one they called when they needed Altar Servers for funerals. The other did pick-up work around the Church and was very good at it. That expanded to doing the same at local parks.

They also participated in sports--softball, football, soccer, basketball, etc., although they never got into the routine of sitting down and watching an entire football (or baseball) game on TV. On the other hand, we all loved attending semi-pro baseball games in our area.

As I said in my previous post, the best parents share what they love with their children. And that is what we both did.

That's great. I thought you said the opposite in your previous post, so I misunderstood. I do think it's easier to influence your children as the mother in terms of church, especially if you are a firstborn mom who is a natural leader. I think I would have had a harder time as the dad. For my kids, I felt I needed both parents on board. I think it's best when the whole family participates.

 

[Mashmont]

Throwing money at a problem has never worked.

True once again. I also think big piles of money are rarely good. They seem to corrupt whoever has them.

 

[Feeding Crows]

Throwing money at a problem has never worked.

So that's why it's ok for the Vatican to hold it all?

 

[Feeding Crows]

Let me control the money, and I promise you I will solve two of the world's biggest problems.

 

[Feeding Crows]

But no, they keep it to themselves and distribute it as they see fit. And only just to correct little things, not big things.

 

[Feeding Crows]

The Church wants suffering. That's how they have survived. They created suffering, and continue to promote it.

 

[Feeding Crows]

Suffering makes money!! If everyone was happy, they wouldn't donate a penny.

 

[Mashmont]

The Church wants suffering. That's how they have survived. They created suffering, and continue to promote it.

Suffering is good. It makes you a better person. Atheists don't embrace the concept of suffering, do they?

 

[Feeding Crows]

Nope, not at all. There should be no need for suffering if we would share our resources.

 

[Feeding Crows]

But peeps like you want to promote suffering, in order for the church to make MORE MONEY!

 

[Care4all]

One of the common things I've heard from atheists is "You don't need God in order to be moral". In fact, I've met atheists/irreligious who were friendly and helpful and appeared on the surface to be perhaps as Christlike as some Christians in their behavior. I knew a guy named Richard just like that who owned a store in my hometown. Very friendly and nice, but totally irreligious. I always wondered how this was so.

This conundrum was explained to be in the sermon at Mass this evening. The short answer is atheists are sinful and unfit for Heaven until they find God. Being overtly nice is not enough. Here's why:
St. Paul says humans are innately sinful. Without assistance from God, atheists have no way to escape their sinful nature. You have to be pure sexually. You can't gossip about others, you can't be prone to anger. Here is the full list:

Galations 5: 19-24
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy,[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do[e] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm here to tell you it's difficult to overcome some of these vices. How easy is it to gossip about someone, or get angry, or sow discord, or envy someone, or be caught up in worldly desires such as wanting a fine car or home, trying to attain riches or to satisfy sexual urges in immoral ways. It's hard enough for practicing Christians to avoid these things even with consistent prayer. It is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid them without prayer and without God. It is impossible for atheists to have all the positive characteristics in the Galatians passage above and none of the negative. Nobody in this forum or anywhere else knows an atheist who follows all these laws.

My friend Richard? Turns out in his store, he rented out extremely X-rated nasty videos on the side. Beneath his friendly veneer were a lot of problems. A lot of sexual deviancy. And he had nothing to fight them with. He didn't enlist God's help to fight them. He had no chance.

So to the question of "Why do you need God in order to be a good person"? The answer is; because man is innately sinful, and if left alone without God, will remain in those sins.

I'm uncertain about that, coming from a Christian layman's view....not a Biblical Scholar s view!

Did you ever see the movie, The 10 Commandments with Charlton Heston? The last time I saw it on rerun was over 30 years ago!

There was a scene in it where the Jews went crazy, while Moses was up on Mt. Sinai, receiving the 10 Commandments engraved in stone on two tablets....

They created a golden calf and idle worshipped and were sinful in every action, it seemed...and of course, if my memory from so long ago, still serves me on the movie...

But to get to my point.....

There was a " voice over" serene, deep manly voice narrating the movie that came on with scenes in the background of the Jews, showing their debauchery, and blasphemy, that said that basically 'from that moment on, God seared right from wrong, in to their hearts'..... I took it, as it was seared in to all of mankind's hearts, proverbIally.

Maybe the scene was just all Hollywood?

Or maybe it was directed towards just Jews?

Or maybe the narrator was actually referring to now having the ten commandments seared in to stone, would sear it in to them?

Of course I don't know, I only know that it seemed to make sense that we would ALL be born knowing right from wrong, for the most part, unless physically/mentally disconnected when born, somehow?

I think we are born with free will, can choose doing right or doing wrong, but innately most all seem to know the "line" between the two.... Whether reared as Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, etc.... In my view, just because you do not have an organized religion does not mean that God isn't behind the scenes guiding you to know right from wrong, or in Gods own way, guiding you to Him???

There's been millions or billions of peop!e that have died that have never heard the Word of God, or new and/Old testament.... were they all rotten to their very core?? Really???

Shoot, some of the biggest sinners I've ever known, have been Christians....! No joking there, or any disrespect towards other Christians! Yes, I know "We all Fall short, of the Glory of God", including the religious....

But I just can't fathom, that all of His creation, wasn't given, a moral compass.

 

[Feeding Crows]

Any animal tends to be "good". Because any animal that is "evil" will not survive very long as a species. Except humans, and we're about to find out.

 

[Feeding Crows]

dogs and cats, canines and felines, don't believe in "god". Yet they are social animals that help each other. How is that done without "God"? Or do they believe in Christianity too?

 

[Meriweather]

So that's why it's ok for the Vatican to hold it all?

The point is, that many of us are doing great things all without simply throwing money. You see money as the solution. Think about going somewhere and asking people want they need to be self-sufficient. "Give us all your money" has never been the request.

 

[Feeding Crows]

Money is the solution Meri. I'm sorry, but that's the reality. Not Santa Claus.