Man Cannot Be Suitably Moral or Good without God. Here's why:

[Hollie]

Shoot, maybe Julius Caesar never existed. Or George Washington. Or Lincoln. Or any historical figure we haven't seen with our own eyes. Maybe all those "historians" are lying. Oh, but wait. They aren't any different than those who reported about Jesus, whose existence, btw is accepted by nearly all historians of antiquity.

You miss a painfully obvious point in that a person named Jesus who may have existed supports nothing of the legend building surrounding his claimed supernatural abilities.

 

[Feeding Crows]

omg i've had this song in my head all day long! I didn't know why until now... It suddenly comes up bc of George!

 

[Feeding Crows]

that's weird

 

[Meriweather]

So Jesus says it's ok to keep filthy rich treasures and money

You are of the mind that some rich person should offer to buy a Vatican treasure so that the Church can purchase food and shelter for the poor?

Let's skip the middleman. Say someone has money and wants to now purchase a treasure given to the Catholic Church centuries ago.

You are saying the Church should accept the offer and give the money to the poor. Why aren't you recommending that someone with enough money to purchase a Church treasure should instead give that purchase price directly to the poor?

 

[Meriweather]

You miss a painfully obvious point in that a person named Jesus who may have existed supports nothing of the legend building surrounding his claimed supernatural abilities.

Perhaps focus on his teachings, not the abilities you dismiss. People of faith acknowledge his abilities, but focus on his teachings about living this life.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Your god never authored any part of the Bible. If you were honest with yourself, you would admit you have no firm evidence that any of the gospels were authored by Luke, Matthew, Mark or John, Paul or Ringo. You are simply accepting they were because that’s what you were told and that’s what you want to believe,

God authored it all. You have no evidence to the contrary. You have 0 proof. Just saying that Mystery Man wrote it is pretty flimsy. And you have to accept that, since you have no evidence that your mystery man ever existed, let alone wrote the most popular book ever written. Who is your prophet that can predict the future? What else did he write besides the best selling book ever?

 

[Hollie]

Perhaps focus on his teachings, not the abilities you dismiss. People of faith acknowledge his abilities, but focus on his teachings about living this life.

I can find completely adequate life teachings outside of Bibles, Korans and Egyptian books of the dead.

I’m not clear on what abilities are possessed by the Christian god that I’m dismissing. I don’t presume gods exist and thus presume they have any abilities.

 

[Hollie]

God authored it all. You have no evidence to the contrary. You have 0 proof. Just saying that Mystery Man wrote it is pretty flimsy. And you have to accept that, since you have no evidence that your mystery man ever existed, let alone wrote the most popular book ever written. Who is your prophet that can predict the future? What else did he write besides the best selling book ever?

I do have evidence to the contrary. You have evidence I don’t. Pretty cool, huh? I can use your “no evidence to the contrary” as a contrary to your no evidence to the contrary.


God authored nothing. Sorry, but your beliefs / wishes do not impose any requirement on me to accept mere opinion.

 

[Meriweather]

I don’t presume gods exist

Alright...

 

[Hollie]

Alright...

Exactly.

You presume a specific version of a triune god(s) exist and then structure an argument with that underlying presumption which cannot be verified. It’s holding a partisan bias and arguing from a partisan, biased position.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I do have evidence to the contrary. You have evidence I don’t. Pretty cool, huh? I can use your “no evidence to the contrary” as a contrary to your no evidence to the contrary.


God authored nothing. Sorry, but your beliefs / wishes do not impose any requirement on me to accept mere opinion.

Actually all you have is word salad logic. You have no evidence to back up your Mystery Man author.
God authored it all. My evidence is He is the only one capable of predicting the future thousands of years in advance. Mystery Man can't. You can't.
And I don't require you to do anything. Completely your choice, your opinion. Heaven isn't for everyone....

 

[The Irish Ram]

So Jesus says it's ok to keep filthy rich treasures and money because he deserves it? Screw the people. But people are suffering and dying of hunger? And priests and sisters struggle to live to help others. But the Vatican (which apparently is justifying themselves with Jesus' quote that you provided), just continues to amass wealth, and gives out a small token portion of it to keep the business running.

Just like when you sold your house and gave all the money to the poor to stop them from dying?

 

[Hollie]

Actually all you have is word salad logic. You have no evidence to back up your Mystery Man author.
God authored it all. My evidence is He is the only one capable of predicting the future thousands of years in advance. Mystery Man can't. You can't.
And I don't require you to do anything. Completely your choice, your opinion. Heaven isn't for everyone....

Your 'logic' is something you call a Mystery Man who is capable of something.

Super.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Mystery Man is someone you conjured up. Unless you can give me the name of the person you think wrote the best seller. Don't you even have a clue as to his identity? Did he write other prophetic works?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, in conclusion:

Humans can be much more moral WITHOUT adherence to any of these iron age mythologies.

Any moral idea or act found in them can be reasoned out without the need for dictation from an iron age mythology.

And the putrid immorality that permeates all of the mythologies can be discarded without guilt, if one sees them for the mythologies they are, instead of the necessary path to a magical forever prize.

And then even better morality can be added, as one profiting from the far superior secular ideas we have since discovered puts in the effort.

 

[Meriweather]

Exactly.

You presume a specific version of a triune god(s) exist and then structure an argument with that underlying presumption which cannot be verified. It’s holding a partisan bias and arguing from a partisan, biased position.

Not exactly....

 

[Hollie]

The Mystery Man is someone you conjured up. Unless you can give me the name of the person you think wrote the best seller. Don't you even have a clue as to his identity? Did he write other prophetic works?

Who did I conjure up?

 

[Hollie]

Not exactly....

Pretty much, exactly. You’re an ardent Christian because you were born and raised in the west. It’s why the Islamic Middle East is predominately Islamic.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Pretty much, exactly. You’re an ardent Christian because you were born and raised in the west. It’s why the Islamic Middle East is predominately Islamic.

Yep. And if Christianity didn't center completely on the "forever prize", but Islam did, then he would probably be a Muslim, as Christianity would be a historical footnote that died on the vine.

 

[Meriweather]

Who did I conjure up?

Hollie, you are imagining two things. You imagine that everyone sees only what you imagine. You have no testimony, simply an imagining. So you imagine all the rest of us are imagining as well--and that is not the case. Some of us are trying to share a reality that we experienced.