CDZ let's prepare for the attack on Taiwan a lot better than we did for the attack on Ukraine..

[peacefan]

The Taiwanese population stands at 23.6 million people.

But evacuating these people in the event of a war by the Chinese, which is something that President Xi has repeated over and over to be one of his primary goals, can only happen by airplane or ship. Obviously ships would be more practical. But we'd need to properly prepare enough civilian ships for this task, and we'd better start preparing for that now.

And evacuating the mission-critical personnel and -equipment of the computer chips factories in Taiwan at the first sign of war also seems crucial for the entire western civilian and defense industries to me.

Our entire military strategy in case of Chinese war against Taiwan should be focused on protecting the evacuation efforts for long enough so that the entire Taiwanese population, including it's soldiers, are in fact safely relocated to other locations in the world.

We'd need to indoctrinate our own people about the very real fact that not all Asians are the same, and that a Taiwanese person is much more in tune with western style thinking than a Chinese. If we fail to do this, then our own people's tendency to be racist towards people of other skin colors from hostile regions will gravely upset efforts to integrate the evacuated Taiwanese into western societies, which in turn would upset our own ability to produce enough microchips.

The fact is, with China heavily investing in it's military and military tech level, we can not realistically hope to hold on to Taiwan.
It is simply too close to the Chinese mainland.

With what we've seen from Putin in Ukraine, and from Xi against the Uighurs and from previous Chinese leaders against the Tibetans, it would be shameful for us (not to mention extremely hard to justify later on the timeline), if we do not prepare a proper defense-and-evacuation plan for people in near-future conflict zones like Taiwan.

i will forward the URL to this thread to the whitehouse and selected western political parties, intelligence organisations, and mass-media companies.
opinions are of course very welcome.

 

[Manonthestreet]

So you surrended for them....great plan

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, so many inaccuracies

The Taiwanese population stands at 23.6 million people.

But evacuating these people in the event of a war by the Chinese, which is something that President Xi has repeated over and over to be one of his primary goals, can only happen by airplane or ship. Obviously ships would be more practical. But we'd need to properly prepare enough civilian ships for this task, and we'd better start preparing for that now.

And evacuating the mission-critical personnel and -equipment of the computer chips factories in Taiwan at the first sign of war also seems crucial for the entire western civilian and defense industries to me.

Our entire military strategy in case of Chinese war against Taiwan should be focused on protecting the evacuation efforts for long enough so that the entire Taiwanese population, including it's soldiers, are in fact safely relocated to other locations in the world.

More than a few things here.

First, LEGALLY, China can move into Taiwan any time they want. They are not seen as separate countries, they are two separate governments BOTH claiming to be the legitimate government of China. We don't recognize Taiwan as anything other than a part of China. True, we sell them military hardware but our obligations to defend them is kind of legally murky.

Secondly, China has no real reason to invade Taiwan. Beijing and Taipei have a very odd symbiotic relationship. Taipei provides investment, Beijing provides raw labor. A war would be economically devastating for both countries even if the rest of the world kept out of it.

Third, the Chinese capacity to invade Taiwan would be pretty limited. A naval invasion is actually kind of a major undertaking, as we learned in WWII. Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, involved 2 million men against 640,000 Axis defenders, with intensive inside aid from Free French fighters assisting with intelligence. For China to pull off a similar operation would be difficult. Satellite imagery would detect a major Chinese buildup long before it happened.

This would give the US plenty of time to deploy naval assets to counter the invasion.

We'd need to indoctrinate our own people about the very real fact that not all Asians are the same, and that a Taiwanese person is much more in tune with western style thinking than a Chinese. If we fail to do this, then our own people's tendency to be racist towards people of other skin colors from hostile regions will gravely upset efforts to integrate the evacuated Taiwanese into western societies, which in turn would upset our own ability to produce enough microchips.

Oh, please. As racist as America is, Asians really don't get the abuse other minorities have gotten. They are seen as the "model" minority.

The fact is, with China heavily investing in it's military and military tech level, we can not realistically hope to hold on to Taiwan.
It is simply too close to the Chinese mainland.

Taiwan isn't ours to hold on to. Legally, it's China's.

With what we've seen from Putin in Ukraine, and from Xi against the Uighurs and from previous Chinese leaders against the Tibetans, it would be shameful for us (not to mention extremely hard to justify later on the timeline), if we do not prepare a proper defense-and-evacuation plan for people in near-future conflict zones like Taiwan.

i will forward the URL to this thread to the whitehouse and selected western political parties, intelligence organisations, and mass-media companies.
opinions are of course very welcome.

I think we need to get real and understand this in the context of Chinese history.

Tibet, Xinxiang (Where the Uighurs live), Taiwan and Hong Kong have all been historically part of China. From the Chinese point of view, we are the invaders. China suffered the Century of Humiliations, starting with the First Opium War (where the UK insisted on its right to sell addictive drugs to Chinese citizens), to the Japanese invasion during WWII, before China finally rose up and threw out all the foreign influence under Mao.

To them, our insistence on propping up a rival government in Taipei, or insisting Hong Kong should have its own autonomy after it was legitimately returned to China, is just seen as more western interference. The fact China hasn't cracked down on these places should be considered an amazing amount of restraint.

 

[JGalt]

The Taiwanese population stands at 23.6 million people.

But evacuating these people in the event of a war by the Chinese, which is something that President Xi has repeated over and over to be one of his primary goals, can only happen by airplane or ship. Obviously ships would be more practical. But we'd need to properly prepare enough civilian ships for this task, and we'd better start preparing for that now.

And evacuating the mission-critical personnel and -equipment of the computer chips factories in Taiwan at the first sign of war also seems crucial for the entire western civilian and defense industries to me.

Our entire military strategy in case of Chinese war against Taiwan should be focused on protecting the evacuation efforts for long enough so that the entire Taiwanese population, including it's soldiers, are in fact safely relocated to other locations in the world.

We'd need to indoctrinate our own people about the very real fact that not all Asians are the same, and that a Taiwanese person is much more in tune with western style thinking than a Chinese. If we fail to do this, then our own people's tendency to be racist towards people of other skin colors from hostile regions will gravely upset efforts to integrate the evacuated Taiwanese into western societies, which in turn would upset our own ability to produce enough microchips.

The fact is, with China heavily investing in it's military and military tech level, we can not realistically hope to hold on to Taiwan.
It is simply too close to the Chinese mainland.

With what we've seen from Putin in Ukraine, and from Xi against the Uighurs and from previous Chinese leaders against the Tibetans, it would be shameful for us (not to mention extremely hard to justify later on the timeline), if we do not prepare a proper defense-and-evacuation plan for people in near-future conflict zones like Taiwan.

i will forward the URL to this thread to the whitehouse and selected western political parties, intelligence organisations, and mass-media companies.
opinions are of course very welcome.

Doe this mean you won't be going there to stand in front of a CHICOM tank like that guy did in Tienanmen Square?

I am disappointed, son. I was kinda looking forward to seeing you do that.

 

[LuckyDuck]

The Taiwanese population stands at 23.6 million people.

But evacuating these people in the event of a war by the Chinese, which is something that President Xi has repeated over and over to be one of his primary goals, can only happen by airplane or ship. Obviously ships would be more practical. But we'd need to properly prepare enough civilian ships for this task, and we'd better start preparing for that now.

And evacuating the mission-critical personnel and -equipment of the computer chips factories in Taiwan at the first sign of war also seems crucial for the entire western civilian and defense industries to me.

Our entire military strategy in case of Chinese war against Taiwan should be focused on protecting the evacuation efforts for long enough so that the entire Taiwanese population, including it's soldiers, are in fact safely relocated to other locations in the world.

We'd need to indoctrinate our own people about the very real fact that not all Asians are the same, and that a Taiwanese person is much more in tune with western style thinking than a Chinese. If we fail to do this, then our own people's tendency to be racist towards people of other skin colors from hostile regions will gravely upset efforts to integrate the evacuated Taiwanese into western societies, which in turn would upset our own ability to produce enough microchips.

The fact is, with China heavily investing in it's military and military tech level, we can not realistically hope to hold on to Taiwan.
It is simply too close to the Chinese mainland.

With what we've seen from Putin in Ukraine, and from Xi against the Uighurs and from previous Chinese leaders against the Tibetans, it would be shameful for us (not to mention extremely hard to justify later on the timeline), if we do not prepare a proper defense-and-evacuation plan for people in near-future conflict zones like Taiwan.

i will forward the URL to this thread to the whitehouse and selected western political parties, intelligence organisations, and mass-media companies.
opinions are of course very welcome.

If China were to decide to actually invade Taiwan, there isn't much that could be done about it. The United States has been slowly picking away at our freedoms and under this administration is gravitating towards a form of Marxism (George Soros free-movement-of-peoples, New World Order of Marxism), which would in the end, put the United States on the side of China. The response of the United States to a China invasion of Taiwan, would be a call for restraint while at the same time, quietly providing China with any security intelligence the U.S. has on Taiwan.
Sooner or later, Taiwan, South Korea and other governments will fall in line with Socialism and any concept of "individual liberties" will be crushed and lo and behold, we're in the "New World Order" that Biden and other politicians are praising.

 

[1stNickD]

The Taiwanese population stands at 23.6 million people.

But evacuating these people in the event of a war by the Chinese, which is something that President Xi has repeated over and over to be one of his primary goals, can only happen by airplane or ship. Obviously ships would be more practical. But we'd need to properly prepare enough civilian ships for this task, and we'd better start preparing for that now.

And evacuating the mission-critical personnel and -equipment of the computer chips factories in Taiwan at the first sign of war also seems crucial for the entire western civilian and defense industries to me.

Our entire military strategy in case of Chinese war against Taiwan should be focused on protecting the evacuation efforts for long enough so that the entire Taiwanese population, including it's soldiers, are in fact safely relocated to other locations in the world.

We'd need to indoctrinate our own people about the very real fact that not all Asians are the same, and that a Taiwanese person is much more in tune with western style thinking than a Chinese. If we fail to do this, then our own people's tendency to be racist towards people of other skin colors from hostile regions will gravely upset efforts to integrate the evacuated Taiwanese into western societies, which in turn would upset our own ability to produce enough microchips.

The fact is, with China heavily investing in it's military and military tech level, we can not realistically hope to hold on to Taiwan.
It is simply too close to the Chinese mainland.

With what we've seen from Putin in Ukraine, and from Xi against the Uighurs and from previous Chinese leaders against the Tibetans, it would be shameful for us (not to mention extremely hard to justify later on the timeline), if we do not prepare a proper defense-and-evacuation plan for people in near-future conflict zones like Taiwan.

i will forward the URL to this thread to the whitehouse and selected western political parties, intelligence organisations, and mass-media companies.
opinions are of course very welcome.

I think , with help, that the Taiwanese can defend themselves against the thug named Xi. It was the communist's that over ran the Chinese nation after ww2, not the other way around, as such Taiwan is actually the true mind of China. Mao had to murder nearly 50 million people so he could hold control of the mainland and Xi has said himself that Mao is his inspiration.. Therefore its obvious that the communists have no right to Taiwan, and one could legitimately argue that the communists have no right to control China. Many Americans died during ww2 to help China be free from Japan. China was not a communist nation and the communists did nothing to help remove the Japanese from the land they claim for themselves.

peacefan thinks we need to indoctrinate people into believing something, which shows he does not understand how Americans think. We don't need to indoctrinate anyone, the facts speak for themselves. The Communist's have no legal authority to anything. they murdered non stop for control, they murdered their own when they spoke against the tyranny and look at what they recently did to those who peacefully protested in Hong Kong and even at tieannemen square just a few decades ago.

I find it strange that peacefan seems to think we need to evacuate the entire island and disperse its residents around the globe. leaving Taiwan free for the communists to pilfer. peacefan also thinks that Americans view all Asians as the same, which is a very insulting and racist thing to say. Because we know that is not true. One can read the words of the OP and really walk away with the notion that peacefan is here at the request of Xis government to sew the idea of surrendering Taiwan without a shot because we should fear the communists who control china... The communists rule china with fear, it would behoove the entire word to stand against the government in Beijing, because the world should not be bullied by fear. Ukraine has been showing they will not be bullied by the bear, Taiwan deserves to live without the fear of the bullying dragon.

Xi, Putin and NK, thought they would walk over the free world without any push back. They are mistaken. Once people truly taste freedom and understand their responsibility to pass that freedom down, they will not allow thugs to steal it from them. If necessary, the US should help arm Taiwan with thermonuclear weapons so it becomes too costly and too risky for Communist China to overwhelm them with numbers. And we should begin doing that immediately.

 

[1stNickD]

Wow, so many inaccuracies


More than a few things here.

First, LEGALLY, China can move into Taiwan any time they want. They are not seen as separate countries, they are two separate governments BOTH claiming to be the legitimate government of China. We don't recognize Taiwan as anything other than a part of China. True, we sell them military hardware but our obligations to defend them is kind of legally murky.

Secondly, China has no real reason to invade Taiwan. Beijing and Taipei have a very odd symbiotic relationship. Taipei provides investment, Beijing provides raw labor. A war would be economically devastating for both countries even if the rest of the world kept out of it.

Third, the Chinese capacity to invade Taiwan would be pretty limited. A naval invasion is actually kind of a major undertaking, as we learned in WWII. Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, involved 2 million men against 640,000 Axis defenders, with intensive inside aid from Free French fighters assisting with intelligence. For China to pull off a similar operation would be difficult. Satellite imagery would detect a major Chinese buildup long before it happened.

This would give the US plenty of time to deploy naval assets to counter the invasion.



Oh, please. As racist as America is, Asians really don't get the abuse other minorities have gotten. They are seen as the "model" minority.



Taiwan isn't ours to hold on to. Legally, it's China's.



I think we need to get real and understand this in the context of Chinese history.

Tibet, Xinxiang (Where the Uighurs live), Taiwan and Hong Kong have all been historically part of China. From the Chinese point of view, we are the invaders. China suffered the Century of Humiliations, starting with the First Opium War (where the UK insisted on its right to sell addictive drugs to Chinese citizens), to the Japanese invasion during WWII, before China finally rose up and threw out all the foreign influence under Mao.

To them, our insistence on propping up a rival government in Taipei, or insisting Hong Kong should have its own autonomy after it was legitimately returned to China, is just seen as more western interference. The fact China hasn't cracked down on these places should be considered an amazing amount of restraint.

mao murdered nearly 50 million Chinese citizens so the communists could hold onto power. They have no legitimate claim to anything, they rule by total fear, speak wrongly and you are disappeared. Taiwan is a free democracy, they deserve the respect and the assistance in their defense against communism. Xi's communist government should be considered an illegal government and treated thusly.

 

[1stNickD]

If China were to decide to actually invade Taiwan, there isn't much that could be done about it. The United States has been slowly picking away at our freedoms and under this administration is gravitating towards a form of Marxism (George Soros free-movement-of-peoples, New World Order of Marxism), which would in the end, put the United States on the side of China. The response of the United States to a China invasion of Taiwan, would be a call for restraint while at the same time, quietly providing China with any security intelligence the U.S. has on Taiwan.
Sooner or later, Taiwan, South Korea and other governments will fall in line with Socialism and any concept of "individual liberties" will be crushed and lo and behold, we're in the "New World Order" that Biden and other politicians are praising.

Some of us are willing to stand against the destruction of this country and of the free world... I think many have awakened to what woke really means. Hopefully there will be enough awakened by November to send millions of these invaders home, and to send these socialists packing out of Washington.

 

[daveman]

Wow, so many inaccuracies


More than a few things here.

First, LEGALLY, China can move into Taiwan any time they want. They are not seen as separate countries, they are two separate governments BOTH claiming to be the legitimate government of China. We don't recognize Taiwan as anything other than a part of China. True, we sell them military hardware but our obligations to defend them is kind of legally murky.

Secondly, China has no real reason to invade Taiwan. Beijing and Taipei have a very odd symbiotic relationship. Taipei provides investment, Beijing provides raw labor. A war would be economically devastating for both countries even if the rest of the world kept out of it.

Third, the Chinese capacity to invade Taiwan would be pretty limited. A naval invasion is actually kind of a major undertaking, as we learned in WWII. Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, involved 2 million men against 640,000 Axis defenders, with intensive inside aid from Free French fighters assisting with intelligence. For China to pull off a similar operation would be difficult. Satellite imagery would detect a major Chinese buildup long before it happened.

This would give the US plenty of time to deploy naval assets to counter the invasion.



Oh, please. As racist as America is, Asians really don't get the abuse other minorities have gotten. They are seen as the "model" minority.



Taiwan isn't ours to hold on to. Legally, it's China's.



I think we need to get real and understand this in the context of Chinese history.

Tibet, Xinxiang (Where the Uighurs live), Taiwan and Hong Kong have all been historically part of China. From the Chinese point of view, we are the invaders. China suffered the Century of Humiliations, starting with the First Opium War (where the UK insisted on its right to sell addictive drugs to Chinese citizens), to the Japanese invasion during WWII, before China finally rose up and threw out all the foreign influence under Mao.

To them, our insistence on propping up a rival government in Taipei, or insisting Hong Kong should have its own autonomy after it was legitimately returned to China, is just seen as more western interference. The fact China hasn't cracked down on these places should be considered an amazing amount of restraint.

An hour after you eat Communist Chinese shit, are you hungry again?

 

[daveman]

If China were to decide to actually invade Taiwan, there isn't much that could be done about it. The United States has been slowly picking away at our freedoms and under this administration is gravitating towards a form of Marxism (George Soros free-movement-of-peoples, New World Order of Marxism), which would in the end, put the United States on the side of China. The response of the United States to a China invasion of Taiwan, would be a call for restraint while at the same time, quietly providing China with any security intelligence the U.S. has on Taiwan.
Sooner or later, Taiwan, South Korea and other governments will fall in line with Socialism and any concept of "individual liberties" will be crushed and lo and behold, we're in the "New World Order" that Biden and other politicians are praising.

The Bidens have already been bought and paid for by China.

 

[peacefan]

I think , with help, that the Taiwanese can defend themselves against the thug named Xi. It was the communist's that over ran the Chinese nation after ww2, not the other way around, as such Taiwan is actually the true mind of China. Mao had to murder nearly 50 million people so he could hold control of the mainland and Xi has said himself that Mao is his inspiration.. Therefore its obvious that the communists have no right to Taiwan, and one could legitimately argue that the communists have no right to control China. Many Americans died during ww2 to help China be free from Japan. China was not a communist nation and the communists did nothing to help remove the Japanese from the land they claim for themselves.

peacefan thinks we need to indoctrinate people into believing something, which shows he does not understand how Americans think. We don't need to indoctrinate anyone, the facts speak for themselves. The Communist's have no legal authority to anything. they murdered non stop for control, they murdered their own when they spoke against the tyranny and look at what they recently did to those who peacefully protested in Hong Kong and even at tieannemen square just a few decades ago.

I find it strange that peacefan seems to think we need to evacuate the entire island and disperse its residents around the globe. leaving Taiwan free for the communists to pilfer. peacefan also thinks that Americans view all Asians as the same, which is a very insulting and racist thing to say. Because we know that is not true. One can read the words of the OP and really walk away with the notion that peacefan is here at the request of Xis government to sew the idea of surrendering Taiwan without a shot because we should fear the communists who control china... The communists rule china with fear, it would behoove the entire word to stand against the government in Beijing, because the world should not be bullied by fear. Ukraine has been showing they will not be bullied by the bear, Taiwan deserves to live without the fear of the bullying dragon.

Xi, Putin and NK, thought they would walk over the free world without any push back. They are mistaken. Once people truly taste freedom and understand their responsibility to pass that freedom down, they will not allow thugs to steal it from them. If necessary, the US should help arm Taiwan with thermonuclear weapons so it becomes too costly and too risky for Communist China to overwhelm them with numbers. And we should begin doing that immediately.

yeah, that sounds great.

but in reality, much like in Ukraine, it is the western doctrine of expansion of our way of life and governing that is fueling an endless war in which many will die horrible deaths.

by arming the people of Ukraine and Taiwan to fight the "evil" communists (people who are merely protecting their own backyard in both cases), by demonizing the communists in both cases, we are in effect placing ourselves on the wrong side of history.
historians will recognize the right of non-democratic leaderships to defend their own backyard from invasion by capitalist government forms, which often aren't that free to begin with.
the US mainstream is served by a mainstream media which is very polarized and which spends a great deal of it's time attacking the other side of the political spectrum based on gossip-like complaints which are repeated over and over.
my own Netherlands doesn't even have independent forums like usmessageboard.com, it has a petitions website, but getting those petitions "airtime" requires huge amounts of money to run ads on our mass-media outlets.

don't get me wrong, i love living in the meager but real freedom that i'm allowed by my western capitalist alliance NATO, but the fact remains that one can get the same quality of life in a communist or religiously ruled country (Iran) if one does not criticize the government. the rules in an autocracy are only slightly stiffer. in an autocracy, one can get a visit from some police force for speaking against the government, here in the west one is simply ignored by the government because they know they have total control over the schools and mass-media.

i saw this first hand when i complained for the last 5 to 8 years about the encroachment NATO did against Russia's western border.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine surprised me, and it's disregard for the suffering of the innocent there even more, and Putin's refusal to link up Sevastopol (home of his naval base in Crimea) to Russia via a Chinese belt-and-road built railroad heading straight East from Sevastopol and then North struck me as particularly inhumane, but maybe there *is* more going on in Ukraine's government, things that required a pruning of the land, military, population and government of Ukraine.
one thing's for sure, the west will never tell you the truth about Ukraine, since Ukraine was chosen by our leaders to become part of NATO one day. but even we have to recognize publicly there were too many problems in Ukraine's government for them to be put on the fast track.

my point is : expansion of the capitalist semi-free government style is great, *except* when it creates wars that put millions in prolonged suffering and millions more as the new poor who barely speak western languages in western countries as refugees. it is always the poor and the middle class from those new warzones who suffer the fate of ending up poor refugees. and they often bring attitudes about life and crime that make them a criminal threat to the population of the country that hosts them as refugees. our leaders don't care about non-educated former middle class or poor people, yet our PR problems force them to accept these people as refugees just as much as valuable workers who can remain middle-class or wealthier in their new home country.

 

[JoeB131]

mao murdered nearly 50 million Chinese citizens so the communists could hold onto power. They have no legitimate claim to anything, they rule by total fear, speak wrongly and you are disappeared. Taiwan is a free democracy, they deserve the respect and the assistance in their defense against communism. Xi's communist government should be considered an illegal government and treated thusly.

The 1950's called. They want their Bircher Talking Points back.

An hour after you eat Communist Chinese shit, are you hungry again?

Not at all. We all spent 40 years listening to this "Evil Empire" nonsense about the USSR, until we found out the "Evil Empire" was a bunch of backwards countries that couldn't get along.

We spent a decade thinking "Saddam was going to get us all", and then a Trillion Dollars and 5000 lives later, we find out he didn't have WMD's.

So now the military-industrial complex has a new bogeyman... China! Even though China hasn't committed an act of aggression against another country since 1979, when they ineptly attacked Vietnam, and realized after three weeks that was a bad idea. (It took us 8 years to realize invading Vietnam was a bad idea.)

We really need to fix our internal problems and stop worrying about everyone else's...

 

[justoffal]

Wow, so many inaccuracies


More than a few things here.

First, LEGALLY, China can move into Taiwan any time they want. They are not seen as separate countries, they are two separate governments BOTH claiming to be the legitimate government of China. We don't recognize Taiwan as anything other than a part of China. True, we sell them military hardware but our obligations to defend them is kind of legally murky.

Secondly, China has no real reason to invade Taiwan. Beijing and Taipei have a very odd symbiotic relationship. Taipei provides investment, Beijing provides raw labor. A war would be economically devastating for both countries even if the rest of the world kept out of it.

Third, the Chinese capacity to invade Taiwan would be pretty limited. A naval invasion is actually kind of a major undertaking, as we learned in WWII. Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, involved 2 million men against 640,000 Axis defenders, with intensive inside aid from Free French fighters assisting with intelligence. For China to pull off a similar operation would be difficult. Satellite imagery would detect a major Chinese buildup long before it happened.

This would give the US plenty of time to deploy naval assets to counter the invasion.



Oh, please. As racist as America is, Asians really don't get the abuse other minorities have gotten. They are seen as the "model" minority.



Taiwan isn't ours to hold on to. Legally, it's China's.



I think we need to get real and understand this in the context of Chinese history.

Tibet, Xinxiang (Where the Uighurs live), Taiwan and Hong Kong have all been historically part of China. From the Chinese point of view, we are the invaders. China suffered the Century of Humiliations, starting with the First Opium War (where the UK insisted on its right to sell addictive drugs to Chinese citizens), to the Japanese invasion during WWII, before China finally rose up and threw out all the foreign influence under Mao.

To them, our insistence on propping up a rival government in Taipei, or insisting Hong Kong should have its own autonomy after it was legitimately returned to China, is just seen as more western interference. The fact China hasn't cracked down on these places should be considered an amazing amount of restraint.

Spot on...

Jo

 

[daveman]

The 1950's called. They want their Bircher Talking Points back.



Not at all. We all spent 40 years listening to this "Evil Empire" nonsense about the USSR, until we found out the "Evil Empire" was a bunch of backwards countries that couldn't get along.

We spent a decade thinking "Saddam was going to get us all", and then a Trillion Dollars and 5000 lives later, we find out he didn't have WMD's.

So now the military-industrial complex has a new bogeyman... China! Even though China hasn't committed an act of aggression against another country since 1979, when they ineptly attacked Vietnam, and realized after three weeks that was a bad idea. (It took us 8 years to realize invading Vietnam was a bad idea.)

We really need to fix our internal problems and stop worrying about everyone else's...

Xi? Is that you?

 

[Leo123]

If Biden is in office if and when Taiwan gets invaded, China will roll over them like a steamroller. Biden will do nothing because like Ukraine, China knows where the Biden skeletons are buried.

 

[DudleySmith]

If Biden is in office if and when Taiwan gets invaded, China will roll over them like a steamroller. Biden will do nothing because like Ukraine, China knows where the Biden skeletons are buried.

They figured out what he could be bought for.

 

[1stNickD]

The 1950's called. They want their Bircher Talking Points back.



Not at all. We all spent 40 years listening to this "Evil Empire" nonsense about the USSR, until we found out the "Evil Empire" was a bunch of backwards countries that couldn't get along.

We spent a decade thinking "Saddam was going to get us all", and then a Trillion Dollars and 5000 lives later, we find out he didn't have WMD's.

So now the military-industrial complex has a new bogeyman... China! Even though China hasn't committed an act of aggression against another country since 1979, when they ineptly attacked Vietnam, and realized after three weeks that was a bad idea. (It took us 8 years to realize invading Vietnam was a bad idea.)

We really need to fix our internal problems and stop worrying about everyone else's...

The communists murdered 50 million of their own so they could hold onto to control of China. They still shoot and murder anyone who speaks against them. Its a shame you think that's just fine. Cry about boogeymen all you want, but the USA has done more for world peace, prosperity than any nation in history. Please find the person who dumped so much nonsense into your brain and slap them. Because they have led you down the red bricked road to communist hero worship. We are not perfect but we are the best that's ever been.

 

[1stNickD]

Wow, so many inaccuracies


More than a few things here.

First, LEGALLY, China can move into Taiwan any time they want. They are not seen as separate countries, they are two separate governments BOTH claiming to be the legitimate government of China. We don't recognize Taiwan as anything other than a part of China. True, we sell them military hardware but our obligations to defend them is kind of legally murky.

Secondly, China has no real reason to invade Taiwan. Beijing and Taipei have a very odd symbiotic relationship. Taipei provides investment, Beijing provides raw labor. A war would be economically devastating for both countries even if the rest of the world kept out of it.

Third, the Chinese capacity to invade Taiwan would be pretty limited. A naval invasion is actually kind of a major undertaking, as we learned in WWII. Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy, involved 2 million men against 640,000 Axis defenders, with intensive inside aid from Free French fighters assisting with intelligence. For China to pull off a similar operation would be difficult. Satellite imagery would detect a major Chinese buildup long before it happened.

This would give the US plenty of time to deploy naval assets to counter the invasion.



Oh, please. As racist as America is, Asians really don't get the abuse other minorities have gotten. They are seen as the "model" minority.



Taiwan isn't ours to hold on to. Legally, it's China's.



I think we need to get real and understand this in the context of Chinese history.

Tibet, Xinxiang (Where the Uighurs live), Taiwan and Hong Kong have all been historically part of China. From the Chinese point of view, we are the invaders. China suffered the Century of Humiliations, starting with the First Opium War (where the UK insisted on its right to sell addictive drugs to Chinese citizens), to the Japanese invasion during WWII, before China finally rose up and threw out all the foreign influence under Mao.

To them, our insistence on propping up a rival government in Taipei, or insisting Hong Kong should have its own autonomy after it was legitimately returned to China, is just seen as more western interference. The fact China hasn't cracked down on these places should be considered an amazing amount of restraint.

No, the communist overthrew the legitimate government of China in the late 40s. They then murdered almost 50 million Chinese citizens to hold onto power. The communists do not have a legitimate claim to China, let alone Taiwan. In fact, Taiwan has more legitimate claims to the mainland than the Communist have on Taiwan.

 

[JoeB131]

The communists murdered 50 million of their own so they could hold onto to control of China. They still shoot and murder anyone who speaks against them. Its a shame you think that's just fine. Cry about boogeymen all you want, but the USA has done more for world peace, prosperity than any nation in history. Please find the person who dumped so much nonsense into your brain and slap them. Because they have led you down the red bricked road to communist hero worship. We are not perfect but we are the best that's ever been.

Okay, the only way you get to 50 million is if you count every famine towards a death total. Except China has had famines throughout her history.

I'm not saying Communism is good. I'm saying Communism is acceptable to China, because it's taken them from being an impoverished country where famines killed millions to one where they are a major economic powerhouse today.

No, the communist overthrew the legitimate government of China in the late 40s. They then murdered almost 50 million Chinese citizens to hold onto power. The communists do not have a legitimate claim to China, let alone Taiwan. In fact, Taiwan has more legitimate claims to the mainland than the Communist have on Taiwan.

Uh, they overthrew "Cash my Check" in the 1940's because he was corrupt and incompetent and average Chinese weren't willing to die for his regime no matter how much money the US pumped into the country. Old "Peanut" only survived on Taiwan because our involvement in the Korean War increased our presense in the region.

(And yes, when your main ally is giving you nicknames like "Cash My Check" and "Peanut", then you are a puppet leader, and it's no wonder your own people hate you.)

 

[Concerned American]

The Taiwanese population stands at 23.6 million people.

But evacuating these people in the event of a war by the Chinese, which is something that President Xi has repeated over and over to be one of his primary goals, can only happen by airplane or ship. Obviously ships would be more practical. But we'd need to properly prepare enough civilian ships for this task, and we'd better start preparing for that now.

And evacuating the mission-critical personnel and -equipment of the computer chips factories in Taiwan at the first sign of war also seems crucial for the entire western civilian and defense industries to me.

Our entire military strategy in case of Chinese war against Taiwan should be focused on protecting the evacuation efforts for long enough so that the entire Taiwanese population, including it's soldiers, are in fact safely relocated to other locations in the world.

We'd need to indoctrinate our own people about the very real fact that not all Asians are the same, and that a Taiwanese person is much more in tune with western style thinking than a Chinese. If we fail to do this, then our own people's tendency to be racist towards people of other skin colors from hostile regions will gravely upset efforts to integrate the evacuated Taiwanese into western societies, which in turn would upset our own ability to produce enough microchips.

The fact is, with China heavily investing in it's military and military tech level, we can not realistically hope to hold on to Taiwan.
It is simply too close to the Chinese mainland.

With what we've seen from Putin in Ukraine, and from Xi against the Uighurs and from previous Chinese leaders against the Tibetans, it would be shameful for us (not to mention extremely hard to justify later on the timeline), if we do not prepare a proper defense-and-evacuation plan for people in near-future conflict zones like Taiwan.

i will forward the URL to this thread to the whitehouse and selected western political parties, intelligence organisations, and mass-media companies.
opinions are of course very welcome.

Did you forget that we are not the world's policeman? I am one of many that is tired of going to the defense of every banana republic, just to be vilified the leftists in this country and around the world. Fuck em.