Let's face it....the day of big war ships is gone ...

[AZrailwhale]

Sanctions are an act of war. This is well known to informed people. They are illegal and immoral. Just as you are immoral.

Sanctions on Japan resulted in war with Japan. Why not avoid war? Is your peanut sized brain unable to comprehend this?

War is the health of the state. I’m certain you fail to understand this profound phrase.

Japan was already at war and had plans to attack the DEI, Burma, Malaysia and French Indo-China long before the US applied the sanctions. Any nation has the right to determine what other nations it will trade with and that is all sanctions are, a denial of trade.

 

[gipper]

Japan was already at war and had plans to attack the DEI, Burma, Malaysia and French Indo-China long before the US applied the sanctions. Any nation has the right to determine what other nations it will trade with and that is all sanctions are, a denial of trade.

None of our business.

You go fight wars *****. It’s easy for pussies like you to send other people’s sons to die. **** off.

You don’t understand US sanctions. They essentially prevent not only the US from doing business with that nation, but most of the world. This is now coming to an end as the world is sick of fuckers like you. BRICS is ignoring US sanctions. Good thing too.

******* warmongering imperialist.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Lol. So you dispute the 500,000 Iraqi children who died. Prove it.

No doubt you believe your nation of Israel has provided HC to Palestinians while bombing all their hospitals and murdering all their doctors.

You mean the hospitals Hamas was using as arms depots and command centers? Israel has been allowing Palestinians into Israel for FREE medical care for as long as Gaza has existed. Your propaganda has been proven as lies for decades. Just like Hamas' claim of Israel bombing a hospital that turned out to be a Hamas short round.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That much water would quench it, after possibly a steam explosion on the kiloton range.

You can't have a steam explosion unless the steam is contained.

 

[martybegan]

You can't have a steam explosion unless the steam is contained.

A large volume of water flashing immediately to steam due to a slag of critical mass melted reactor fuel would create a shock wave initially contained by the water not flashed to steam.

The volume increase is the "explosion" even if no actual explosives would be used.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A large volume of water flashing immediately to steam due to a slag of critical mass melted reactor fuel would create a shock wave initially contained by the water not flashed to steam.

The volume increase is the "explosion" even if no actual explosives would be used.

You cannot have any explosion in an open space. Why would there be a shock wave in the first place?

 

[martybegan]

You cannot have any explosion in an open space. Why would there be a shock wave in the first place?

First.

2020 Beirut explosion - Wikipedia

Second, a shock wave would be created by the rapid expansion of water into superheated steam that exceeds the ability of the surrounding void and/or water to be moved by said gaseous expansion.

You are dealing with someone who has a Masters in Chem .

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

First.

2020 Beirut explosion - Wikipedia

Second, a shock wave would be created by the rapid expansion of water into superheated steam that exceeds the ability of the surrounding void and/or water to be moved by said gaseous expansion.

You are dealing with someone who has a Masters in Chem .

I was steam propulsion engineer. You may kiss my ass! What you are talking is completely theoretical and does not happen when sea water contacts lava. All you get is steam and boiling water. The energy contained in the steam is limited by the resistance. You will get water flashed to steam but in an uncontained environment not allowing pressure to reach a significant level to categorize it as an explosion. A boiling pot of a stove does not explode unless you put a lid on it!

You may know chemistry, but I know steam!

 

[martybegan]

I was steam propulsion engineer. You may kiss my ass! What you are talking is completely theoretical and does not happen when sea water contacts lava. All you get is steam and boiling water. The energy contained in the steam is limited by the resistance. You will get water flashed to steam but in an uncontained environment not allowing pressure to reach a significant level to categorize it as an explosion. A boiling pot of a stove does not explode unless you put a lid on it!

You may know chemistry, but I know steam!

You know steam in controlled man made environments, and you never had to deal with large bodies of water coming into contact with a supercritical mass of melted nuclear fuel slag. They were worried about this if the core reached the water table at Chernobyl.

A boiling pot isn't in contact with fissioning nuclear material.

Are you familiar with the energy differences between chemical reactions and nuclear reactions?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You know steam in controlled man made environments, and you never had to deal with large bodies of water coming into contact with a supercritical mass of melted nuclear fuel slag. They were worried about this if the core reached the water table at Chernobyl.

A boiling pot isn't in contact with fissioning nuclear material.

Are you familiar with the energy differences between chemical reactions and nuclear reactions?

You are so full of shit, I bet your eyes are brown. Did I mention I also served on a nuclear submarine and was in training as a reactor operator?

 

[martybegan]

You are so full of shit, I bet your eyes are brown. Did I mention I also served on a nuclear submarine and was in training as a reactor operator?

Operator.

That's like saying a sewage treatment worker can do my job of designing and optimizing wastewater treatment plants.

And before you get in my face about being pompous, I can't do their job either without proper training.

So you are saying you weren't an Admiral but enlisted in actuality?

Oh, the actual definition of a shock wave.

Shock wave - Wikipedia

and the actual definition of an explosion.

Explosion - Wikipedia

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Operator.

That's like saying a sewage treatment worker can do my job of designing and optimizing wastewater treatment plants.

And before you get in my face about being pompous, I can't do their job either without proper training.

So you are saying you weren't an Admiral but enlisted in actuality?

Oh, the actual definition of a shock wave.

Shock wave - Wikipedia

and the actual definition of an explosion.

Explosion - Wikipedia

You forget sea pressure at any significant depth must first be overcome and this is difficult. I was a mustang, enlisted out of high school and received my commission through NROTC. I was a LCDR. I did my department head tour as an engineer on an LHA. I was a victim of the "Peace Dividend" in the mid 90s and reassigned to the reserve in 1994.

 

[Mushroom]

The increase in speed, power and accuracy of the new generation of killer missiles pretty much eliminates threat of large sea going war ships.
Hell even smaller and faster ships are no longer safe.

A lot of what you are saying is actually rather contradictory. You are aware of that, right?

For example, are you even aware that the Iowa class Battleships were faster than the Arleigh Burke class Destroyers or Ticonderoga class Cruisers?

And no, missiles are not really any faster, more powerful, or more accurate than those we had 40 years ago.

Sorry, but all I see here is rather typical. Somebody spouts off their "beliefs", and can't even bother to check the facts.

But here is a fact you might not like. There is not a single anti-ship missile that is a threat to an armored ship. Not a single one. That is why they were reactivated in the 1980s in the first place, to counter the Kirov class battlecruisers of the USSR with their P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 SHIPWRECK) missiles. Those were formidable weapons, and could sink any ship in the fleet short of a carrier. And 3-4 hits could sink even the USS Nimitz.

So the natural response was to bring back the Iowa class. The P-700 was designed and built in the era after armored ships had all left service. And those returning basically made the Soviets crap their pants a bit. Because that was one class of ships that their new weapon was no real threat against.

I have absolutely no idea why so many people think the larger ships are slower. Or why "modern" missiles are any "deadlier" than those 10-20 years before. There has not been any significant improvement in missiles in over two decades, actually about 4 decades to be completely honest.

And speed is not an improvement, as it is counter to accuracy and range. And they are no more "powerful" than they were back when Reagan was President.

 

[Mushroom]

Anti missile lasers are game changer

Anti-missile lasers are a fantasy. And probably the worst place you could even try to use one is at sea.

 

[Mushroom]

You forget sea pressure at any significant depth must first be overcome and this is difficult. I was a mustang, enlisted out of high school and received my commission through NROTC. I was a LCDR. I did my department head tour as an engineer on an LHA. I was a victim of the "Peace Dividend" in the mid 90s and reassigned to the reserve in 1994.

Does not matter. Don't you know that those who have never served and learned everything from Reddit know far more than those who actually served?

I honestly shake my head at the amount of crap I hear so many in here spewing on a regular basis. Almost always completely wrong, but you can't ever convince them of that no matter what facts you present.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Does not matter. Don't you know that those who have never served and learned everything from Reddit know far more than those who actually served?

I honestly shake my head at the amount of crap I hear so many in here spewing on a regular basis. Almost always completely wrong, but you can't ever convince them of that no matter what facts you present.

You are about the only poster on this forum that I consistently agree with most of the time when it comes to military matters.

 

[Mushroom]

I did my department head tour as an engineer on an LHA. I was a victim of the "Peace Dividend" in the mid 90s and reassigned to the reserve in 1994.

I never did get to spend any time on an LHA. All my amphibious time were on LPH and LSD class ships.

But yeah, a lot of us got cut at about that time. My medboard was on hold for over a year, waiting to see who would win the election in 1992. About two weeks after the election, the Navy released somewhere around 2,000 medboard results announcing they were getting out. And I was one of them.

I had already been told to watch the election. If Bush won again I would likely have been retained and trained in a new MOS. But with Clinton winning, they knew they had to cut more people, so simply holding people pending medboards was an easy way to wait until after the election.

I even had the fun of getting caught in 2 different RIFs. First in 1993, again in 2012.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I never did get to spend any time on an LHA. All my amphibious time were on LPH and LSD class ships.

But yeah, a lot of us got cut at about that time. My medboard was on hold for over a year, waiting to see who would win the election in 1992. About two weeks after the election, the Navy released somewhere around 2,000 medboard results announcing they were getting out. And I was one of them.

I had already been told to watch the election. If Bush won again I would likely have been retained and trained in a new MOS. But with Clinton winning, they knew they had to cut more people, so simply holding people pending medboards was an easy way to wait until after the election.

I even had the fun of getting caught in 2 different RIFs. First in 1993, again in 2012.

Clinton got me twice. He cut the Navy manning requirements to reduce the number of surface ships and eliminated my opportunity for promotion, so I took the VSI/SSB instead of getting out. I actually was hired by the first job I applied for while waiting to be released and then Clinton's cronies eliminated the funding for my job as the LHD engineering systems EOSS coordinator with my defense contractor company in Arlington, VA. The LHAs and early LHDs had identical propulsion plants. I lost that job and then the Navy extended me two more months on active duty anyway because they could not find a qualified relief.

 

[Mushroom]

You are about the only poster on this forum that I consistently agree with most of the time when it comes to military matters.

Oh, I know for a fact we do not always agree. But one thing I admit, even when we do not agree it is almost always a respectful exchange. But one thing about me, I really do not tolerate any BS. And absolutely detest when people try to blow smoke up my rear engine manifold.

Such as the opening of this, where the OP was trying to imply that newer ships are faster than the big older ones. I bet they have absolutely no concept that the classification of the Iowa class was actually "Fast Battleship". As were the South Dakota class before them. And outside of some experimental classes like hydrofoils they are still the fastest class of combat ships we ever put to sea.

Or that many think missiles are "faster", "more powerful" or "more accurate" than they were four decades ago. Once again, not true at all. They peaked in the 1970s, everything since has been slight increments in the decades ever since. And even "Bargain Basement" over the counter commercial missiles like the Silkworm and Exocet were doing significant amounts of damage way back in 1982.

And there really has been no improvement since. Especially when looking at anti-ship missiles. Most of the major improvements have actually been in the area of SAM and ABM missiles, not in anti-ship missiles. That is why there have been multiple generations of anti-air missiles since the 1970s, but the mainstay ASM for the Navy is still the venerable HARPOON.

And I still remember going to sea when the most we had for protection was the CIWS. RAM did not come out until I was already beached and waiting for my walking papers. And I always laugh when people try to talk about how easy it would be to sink "US Navy Ships". Most who do so have absolutely no idea how much defensive capability the Navy has put into their ships in the last decades.

True fact, the last US Navy surface ship lost in combat was during WWII (USS Callaghan DD-792, a Fletcher class destroyer hit by a kamikaze off Okinawa in 1945) . Since then one has been captured and others damaged, but none lost to enemy fire (one damaged to a "Bakka Boat" in port, another to an anti-ship missile). Not a single one lost.

I think the problem is that a lot of people here spend so much time huffing propaganda that they do not have a clue what the facts actually are.

 

[Mushroom]

Clinton got me twice.

The first RIF under Bush Sr. was expected, as the Cold War was over. But the second under Clinton hurt hard. And the military is still suffering from that one to this day, as can be seen by all the damned contractors on the bases today.

Back in the 1980s and early 1990s, almost everything was done by the military. 2 or 3 civilians in a chow hall, the rest military. Military doing the dishes, military running supply and issuing all of us our gear. Even military in Base Housing giving us our assignments. Even the gyms and clubs were half military.

Going back in the military in the 2000s was a shock. Huge areas that the military used to run were now done by civilian contractors. Clinton cut the troops by too much, and they had to hire civilians to do jobs they no longer had the manpower to do themselves. And it's still that way to this day. Seeing civilians on the gates letting me into the bases told me exactly how bad that had gotten.