Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

[whutTHEYsay]

Best thing Zelensky can do is sue for peace

Sue who. China? Iran? North Korea?

 

[Couchpotato]

You should move to Russia. Ukraine has actual, valid elections. Zelensky was elected fairly and squarely. Ukraine has a free press. People are free to come and go as they please. I've visited Ukraine. We had a Ukrainian exchange student for a school year a few years ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Again, you should take your pro-Russian propaganda to Russia, where it will find wide acceptance.

Yeah after the US overthrew the pro Russian Governemnt… LOL

 

[Stann]

On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory. On another side, we have many liberals accusing Trump of siding with Putin and selling out Ukraine because he is not agreeing to all of Zelensky's terms. Could a realistic, fair assessment be somewhere between these two extremes?

A unilateral U.S. guarantee of Ukraine's security would be virtually de facto NATO membership. It would obligate us to go to war with Russia if Russia invaded Ukraine again. Any future U.S. military intervention in Ukraine would require us to use some NATO nations as staging areas, just as we're doing now only more so. A NATO guarantee of Ukraine's security would be de facto NATO membership. Putin fiercely rejects either option, especially the latter option, as do most average Russians.

Yet, one certainly cannot blame Zelensky for wanting some kind of credible security guarantee, given Putin's track record of violating agreements.

I am not comfortable with Trump's posturing on Ukraine, especially his idiotic statement that Ukraine started the war. However, I recognize this may be a negotiating tactic to allow Putin to save some face while denying him control of most/all of Ukraine. I certainly hope that's what it is. If Trump truly believes that Ukraine started the war, he is horribly misinformed and is peddling Russian propaganda.

I also recognize that there is strong pro-Russian sentiment in three of Ukraine's eastern provinces (Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk), and that a peace deal may need to include ceding some territory in those provinces.

A few days ago, Trump told England's prime minister that Putin was willing to agree to a European peacekeeping force in Ukraine as part of a peace deal. If that's true, that could be significant, depending on the size and duration of the peacekeeping force.

I want a peace deal that gives Ukraine long-term independence and that permanently halts Russian interference in Ukraine's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the three eastern provinces if doing so permanently ended Russian efforts to topple Ukraine and gave Ukraine long-term independence.

I think it is too early to be forming firm, final opinions about the Ukraine negotiations. We need details about the various peace-deal proposals. Let's see where the negotiations go and what the final terms end up being.

If Trump does end up selling out Ukraine, I will never cease to criticize him for doing so. I have dear friends in Ukraine. But, if Trump ends up preserving Ukraine's long-term independence and puts an end to Russian interference in Ukraine, I will gladly congratulate him for doing so.

I am glad my Republican senator in Congress , Don Bacon said , " A bad day for America's foreign Policy. Ukraine wants independence , free markets and rule of law. It wants to be part of the West. Russia hates Us and our Western values. We should be clear that we stand for freedom. " That is strong criticism of trump coming from a republican. More importantly he is absolutely correct. We have the wrong president leading our nation to ruin , isolation and destruction.

 

[Contumacious]

On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory

His beef is against the Obama-Biden Administration who started the Maidan Color Revolution and removed Ukraine's duly elected President Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014. Then they turned Ukraine into a CIA Colony presided over by Victoria Nuland.

President Trump was never consulted and they have no authority to compel President Trump to continue their brain dead policy.

Dr. Strangelove​

The story concerns an insane brigadier general of the United States Air Force who orders a pre-emptive nuclear attack on the Soviet Union. It follows the President of the United States (Sellers), his scientific advisor Dr. Strangelove (Sellers), the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a Royal Air Force exchange officer (Sellers) as they attempt to stop the crew of a B-52 from bombing the Soviet Union and starting a nuclear war

Dr. Strangelove - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Couchpotato]

I am glad my Republican senator in Congress , Don Bacon said , " A bad day for America's foreign Policy. Ukraine wants independence , free markets and rule of law. It wants to be part of the West. Russia hates Us and our Western values. We should be clear that we stand for freedom. " That is strong criticism of trump coming from a republican. More importantly he is absolutely correct. We have the wrong president leading our nation to ruin , isolation and destruction.

Oh look its the "terrorist's hate us for our freedom" bullshit.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Show us how China loans the US money.

They buy our debt. Bonds are a loan.

 

[j-mac]

Putin would be so happy to see Americans take that attitude.

So, you want never ending war....Got it.

 

[22lcidw]

The difference is that when Russia invades a country….they keep it

We look to establish an independent Democracy as soon as possible

Did they keep Afghanistan?

 

[sartre play]

BOTTOM LINE, Never support a DICTATOR.

 

[Lastamender]

Are you seriously, actually saying that America is as bad and predatory as Russia? Really? Seriously?

I think he is saying we can be and have done some terrible things. That does not mean we cannot take the high road here. Trump is trying to teach some world leaders, especially that ingrate Zelenskyy, what their parents should have taught them, nothing is free.

 

[Lastamender]

As I've said many times, neither are or were capable of being president.

That noted, you asked a question, I simply replied with the answer.

You are not being fair to Trump but that is no surprise.

 

[Lastamender]

BOTTOM LINE, Never support a DICTATOR.

That is exactly what Zelenskyy is. A very rich one too. Where do you think he got that money?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Who’s invaded more countries in the past 20-30 years the US or Russia?

How many countries do we still control versus how many Russia still holds? That is a better question. We invade, defeat the enemy, and then turn it back over. Russia takes control and says, "Your ass is mine, now!"

 

[Orangecat]

You are not Ukraine you have no ability to cede anything, you lost yer neutral position.

You are not intelligent, you have no ability to see reason. You’ve lost your neural function.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did they keep Afghanistan?

They never truly had it, just like we never did.

 

[Moonglow]

You are not intelligent, you have no ability to see reason. You’ve lost your neural function.

 

[Care4all]

Lol. Asking such a ridiculous question only proves you’re a fraud. Your just another court historian.

Tell me the number of nations invaded, overthrown, and sanctioned by Russia since the fall of the USSR? Now compare that number to the nations the USG has done this to. What do you see?

 

[Moonglow]

How many countries do we still control versus how many Russia still holds? That is a better question. We invade, defeat the enemy, and then turn it back over. Russia takes control and says, "Your ass is mine, now!"

and they have been doing it since Ghengis Khan.

 

[Couchpotato]

The difference is that when Russia invades a country….they keep it

We look to establish an independent Democracy as soon as possible

Dude seriously. The US is an empire. We have military bases in 55 foreign countries. We overthrow countries with Governments we don't like (or don't like us) and install Governments we do. We dont actually give a shit whether the country is a "democracy" or not so long as it toes the line. Not sure what fantasy world you live in.

 

[Independent thinker]

On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory. On another side, we have many liberals accusing Trump of siding with Putin and selling out Ukraine because he is not agreeing to all of Zelensky's terms. Could a realistic, fair assessment be somewhere between these two extremes?

A unilateral U.S. guarantee of Ukraine's security would be virtually de facto NATO membership. It would obligate us to go to war with Russia if Russia invaded Ukraine again. Any future U.S. military intervention in Ukraine would require us to use some NATO nations as staging areas, just as we're doing now only more so. A NATO guarantee of Ukraine's security would be de facto NATO membership. Putin fiercely rejects either option, especially the latter option, as do most average Russians.

Yet, one certainly cannot blame Zelensky for wanting some kind of credible security guarantee, given Putin's track record of violating agreements.

I am not comfortable with Trump's posturing on Ukraine, especially his idiotic statement that Ukraine started the war. However, I recognize this may be a negotiating tactic to allow Putin to save some face while denying him control of most/all of Ukraine. I certainly hope that's what it is. If Trump truly believes that Ukraine started the war, he is horribly misinformed and is peddling Russian propaganda.

I also recognize that there is strong pro-Russian sentiment in three of Ukraine's eastern provinces (Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk), and that a peace deal may need to include ceding some territory in those provinces.

A few days ago, Trump told England's prime minister that Putin was willing to agree to a European peacekeeping force in Ukraine as part of a peace deal. If that's true, that could be significant, depending on the size and duration of the peacekeeping force.

I want a peace deal that gives Ukraine long-term independence and that permanently halts Russian interference in Ukraine's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the three eastern provinces if doing so permanently ended Russian efforts to topple Ukraine and gave Ukraine long-term independence.

I think it is too early to be forming firm, final opinions about the Ukraine negotiations. We need details about the various peace-deal proposals. Let's see where the negotiations go and what the final terms end up being.

If Trump does end up selling out Ukraine, I will never cease to criticize him for doing so. I have dear friends in Ukraine. But, if Trump ends up preserving Ukraine's long-term independence and puts an end to Russian interference in Ukraine, I will gladly congratulate him for doing so.

We have poured billions and billions and billions into helping defend Ukraine and yet Russia continues to take small amounts of territory day after day after day. With all of the help Ukraine gets, they are going backwards.