Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

[JoeB131]

Russians are not "naturally evil monsters", who's only goal is to do evil things - killing, abusing and supressing other people, who do evil because it is their nature. Russians are very practical men. They usually prefer to do good things for themselves, rather than do bad things to other people (sometimes, but quite rarely, those are the same things). And when they have the choice between "exclusive access to Polish market" and "almost free, non-discriminating access to America's market" and when the security risks are seen as acceptable - why not? They don't need additional push to understand what side of bread is covered with butter.

Okay, meanwhile, in the real world, when teh USSR fell, the Eastern Bloc couldn't throw you out fast enough and sign up for NATO.

All the other Warsaw Pact countries are now in NATO.

Imagine that.

That's how much they love you guys.

 

[Robert W]

America has seen already that Russia can exterminate vicious men (even millions of them) around the world. So, America should f#ck off, and don't interfere while Russia is exterminating Banderlogs and going to end this war by achieving safe and lasting peace.

Putin wants Ukraine. Tough shit Putin.

 

[Zavulon]

Okay, meanwhile, in the real world, when teh USSR fell, the Eastern Bloc couldn't throw you out fast enough and sign up for NATO.

All the other Warsaw Pact countries are now in NATO.

Imagine that.

That's how much they love you guys.

It's not about 'love'. It's all about money. Finish funding them and they'll all be telling scary tales about "evil American occupation" and seek opportunities to join Shanghai block.
And who cares about the love of a prostitute?

 

[JoeB131]

It's not about 'love'. It's all about money. Finish funding them and they'll all be telling scary tales about "evil American occupation" and seek opportunities to join Shanghai block.
And who cares about the love of a prostitute?

Um, okay, I hope they are giving you an extra borscht ration for that whopper.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, what does a fair and just peace in Ukraine look like.

Let's look at each side's goals.

Zelenskyy

• Restore Ukraine to its 2014 borders
• Reparations from Russia
• Ukraine gets to join NATO and the EU for future security.

Putin

• Gets to keep all the land he has now.
• Zelenskyy gone and replaced by a government more friendly to Moscow.
• Sanctions lifted
• Russia gets back into the international community (G-7, G-20)

Sensible compromise.

Russia returns the Oblasts it occupies that are predominantly Ukrainian- Kherson and Zaporizhzhia

Donbas and Crimea are placed under UN jurisdiction until a vote can be held if they want to stay in Russia or Ukraine. (I agree that Russia will almost certainly win these votes.)

Sanctions are lifted when the above two are acheived.

Ukraine - or the Rump Part of it - gets to join the EU and NATO.

-

 

[Zavulon]

Putin wants Ukraine. Tough shit Putin.

Do you think that it is some kind of perverted and irrational love or something? Do you believe that Putin is a mighty wizard who's mental powers can control millions of Russians and force them to act against their free will? Really?
Whatever your racist media tell you, Russians are human beings who has free will, and we are very practical human beings. We don't kill and/or die without really good reasons. Without NATO expansion and without raise of nazism in Ukraine, there unlikely would be a reason good enough to invade Ukraine (whatever are personal Putin's feelings). And yes, without NATO aggression against Serbia and NATO expansion Putin unlikely would be elected and re-elected.

 

[Robert W]

Do you think that it is some kind of perverted and irrational love or something? Do you believe that Putin is a mighty wizard who's mental powers can control millions of Russians and force them to act against their free will? Really?
Whatever your racist media tell you, Russians are human beings who has free will, and we are very practical human beings. We don't kill and/or die without really good reasons. Without NATO expansion and without raise of nazism in Ukraine, there unlikely would be a reason good enough to invade Ukraine (whatever are personal Putin's feelings). And yes, without NATO aggression against Serbia and NATO expansion Putin unlikely would be elected and re-elected.

Crimea does not belong to Russia.
Ukraine does not belong to Russia. Elect somebody else.

 

[Litwin]

update :

Thread 'US will impose 500% tariffs on anyone who buys putin´s oil, says Senator Richard Blumenthal.'

May 30, 2025

Excellent! Perfect! It would be good if this law were approved as soon as possible to send a message to those who buy stolen Siberian oil, stained with blood! Especially to India! Still, do you support the Senate on this?




backgound :

• Litwin

• 

 

[Zavulon]

Crimea does not belong to Russia.
Ukraine does not belong to Russia.

Crimea is a part of Russia. Ukraine is a part of Russia.

Elect somebody else.

For what reason? Anyway, it won't change a thing. You can't be a Russian politician (even lesser - Russian president) and support genocide of Russians.
Putin was elected mostly because of NATO's illegal and unprovoked aggression against Serbia. Without withdrawing American forces from Kosovo - election of somehow pro-American president in Russia is impossible.

 

[Zavulon]

update :

Thread 'US will impose 500% tariffs on anyone who buys putin´s oil, says Senator Richard Blumenthal.'

May 30, 2025

Excellent! Perfect! It would be good if this law were approved as soon as possible to send a message to those who buy stolen Siberian oil, stained with blood! Especially to India! Still, do you support the Senate on this?




backgound :

• Litwin

• 

If the USA want to isolate themselves from the world - it's ok. It will hurt them, not us.

 

[Robert W]

Crimea is a part of Russia. Ukraine is a part of Russia.

Best thing for Ukraine is grab Crimea back. And let Putin eat shit for trying to conquer Ukraine.

 

[Zavulon]

Best thing for Ukraine is grab Crimea back. And let Putin eat shit for trying to conquer Ukraine.

Everything comes with price. Do you really believe that America will really risk losing Alaska and California in the vain attempt to take Crimea and Ukraine? They just used criminal Kievan regime to kill some Russians, as they used South Vietnam regime to kill some Vietnamese.

 

[Zavulon]

Best thing for Ukraine is grab Crimea back. And let Putin eat shit for trying to conquer Ukraine.

Most kinds of power require a substantial sacrifice by whoever wants the power. There is an apprenticeship, a discipline lasting many years. Whatever kind of power you want. President of the company. Black belt in karate. Spiritual guru. Whatever it is you seek, you have to put in the time, the practice, the effort. You must give up a lot to get it. It has to be very important to you. And once you have attained it, it is your power. It can't be given away: it resides in you. It is literally the result of your discipline.
Now, what is interesting about this process is that, by the time someone has acquired the ability to kill with his bare hands, he has also matured to the point where he won't use it unwisely. So that kind of power has a built-in control. The discipline of getting the power changes you so that you won't abuse it.
The problem with the current generation of Americans (and other Western guys), is that they didn't win the peace as result of a war (not that I don't like it). Russians just make few steps back and gave them an illusion of control. They were growing up in the total believe that the world owes them something. That they are special. Like a spoilt children they fell on their backs and cry "I want this, I want that! Gimme, gimme!!!!". Disgusting scenes, in fact. The demand freedom of Palestine, freedom of Ukraine, freedom of Kosovo, freedom of Israel or Ireland, freedom of LGBT or NPZR, without even a slightest idea what is freedom or what is Ukraine. And what is even worse - they don't understand the price of all those things.
And now, they should face the reality and pay the price. Sooner they understand it - lesser will be the price of the lesson.

 

[Deadstick]

Trump needs to admit Ukraine to NATO

Unless Putin engages in serious negotiations

That has to have the votes of the other members which i doubt they would get, but then again they change the rules when they like, if you want to see Ukraine totally destroyed and a global war started that would be the way to get it.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

Ukraine has refused to accept the bodies of killed soldiers in the exchange agreed in Istanbul.
Russia will send 6,000 bodies of AFU fighters to Kiev. Moscow has prepared everything for the exchange at any moment.
Today, Russian representatives brought the bodies to the border, but the Ukrainians refused to accept them without explaining why.

It is understandable - how much money will have to be paid to the families of the dead! Zelensky will find a better use for them.

 

[Ringo]

Ukraine has refused to accept the bodies of killed soldiers in the exchange agreed in Istanbul.
Russia will send 6,000 bodies of AFU fighters to Kiev. Moscow has prepared everything for the exchange at any moment.
Today, Russian representatives brought the bodies to the border, but the Ukrainians refused to accept them without explaining why.

Do you have any idea what 1200+ frozen corpses are? They were stored, transported, God knows how much effort was done... A dozen bodies can fit in one car, but there are more than a thousand.
And the ukrainians were like: “Well, we're not coming to pick them up. We changed our minds.”
Are they adequate at all?

The khokhls did everything to die as a people. And to perish not in the sense of banal death, although that too. They betrayed the faith and the Christian Church. They allowed the desecration of the Lavra. Wished death to their neighbors ("Russians to the gallows!"). And now even don't want bury humanly their defenders ....

 

[Ringo]