Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

[Couchpotato]

Are you seriously, actually saying that America is as bad and predatory as Russia? Really? Seriously?

Who’s invaded more countries in the past 20-30 years the US or Russia?

 

[mikegriffith1]

So far the only sell out has been the misuse of American taxpayer money by the corrupt Ukrainian government. If freedom and Independence was truly their primary goal that maybe they shouldn't have grifted more than 50% of the weapons and money given to them.

The Ukrainian government such as it stands now has demonstrated that it can't be trusted. Why the hell should they be given more to do the same with and who the hell do they think they are to be demanding anything from anyone?

You should move to Russia. Ukraine has actual, valid elections. Zelensky was elected fairly and squarely. Ukraine has a free press. People are free to come and go as they please. I've visited Ukraine. We had a Ukrainian exchange student for a school year a few years ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Again, you should take your pro-Russian propaganda to Russia, where it will find wide acceptance.

 

[gipper]

The balance of power is at play and always has been in human history. I doubt you'll ever see it any other way.

Thinking Russia is an imperialist power intent on restoring the Soviet empire, is so typically the thinking of a dumb American. There is no evidence of this, but many Americans believe it. Proof again, state controlled media propaganda works well on some.

 

[j-mac]

I addressed the point made that I quoted. If I was off topic, the quote I replied to was.

Now you sound like a child.

 

[gipper]

I addressed the point made that I quoted. If I was off topic, the quote I replied to was.

See? He has no idea what you’re referring to.

 

[j-mac]

Thinking Russia is an imperialist power intent on restoring the Soviet empire, is so typically the thinking of a dumb American. There is no evidence of this, but many Americans believe it. Proof again, state controlled media propaganda works well on some.

Are you freaking kidding here? It's Putin's stated goal for Christ sake....The propaganda is what you typed right here, you Russian shill....

 

[Vastator]

You should move to Russia. Ukraine has actual, valid elections. Zelensky was elected fairly and squarely. Ukraine has a free press. People are free to come and go as they please. I've visited Ukraine. We had a Ukrainian exchange student for a school year a few years ago. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Again, you should take your pro-Russian propaganda to Russia, where it will find wide acceptance.

He outlawed opposition parties, and suspended elections! You're an uninformed fool. After that post it is impossible for anyone to take you seriously...

 

[whutTHEYsay]

000 62 ldtpk …~… Putin emboldened by The Trump Vance mugging of Zelensky for Putin on 250228 in the Oval Office. …~… The Oval Office is now HQ for the Axis of Evil.

mikegriffith1 said: Are you seriously, actually saying that America is as bad and predatory as Russia? Really? Seriously?

what I say ldtpk~lxii … It is after yesterday. Take those rose colored glasses off the next time you look at Trump or any Republican, who speaks in public for that matter.

000 33 kieap …~… Ditto Heads …~… 1941 Republicans at a MAGA rally …~… America First NAZI sympathizer’s rally …~… attracted to Lindbergh …~… Fort Wayne,

Charles Lindbergh addresses the crowd at an America First Committee meeting in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1941.

Charles Lindbergh Pushed Anti-Semitic Conspiracies To Keep America From Fighting Hitler​

Charles Lindbergh was an American hero after his historic solo flight across the Atlantic — then he wrecked his legacy through bigotry and associations with Nazis.


what I say kieap~xxxiii … The same exact message from a Putin Fascist Toady Republican:

shockedcanadian ~00005~ said: “let the E.U handle this war”

whvt 250301 kieap00033 …~… ldtpk00062

 

[j-mac]

pknopp thinks the truth is funny....

 

[Scoutster]

Realistically and fairly, Zelly midget boy can go fuck himself!

 

[gipper]

Are you freaking kidding here? It's Putin's stated goal for Christ sake....The propaganda is what you typed right here, you Russian shill....

The dumb American on full display.

 

[j-mac]

The dumb American on full display.

Can't hear ya Putin ass licker...

 

[scruffy]

It is after yesterday. Take those rose colored glasses off the next time you look at Trump or any Republican, who speaks for that matter.

000 33 kieap …~… Ditto Heads …~… 1941 Republicans at a MAGA rally …~… America First NAZI sympathizer’s rally …~… attracted to Lindbergh …~… Fort Wayne,

View attachment 1084586
Charles Lindbergh addresses the crowd at an America First Committee meeting in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1941.

Charles Lindbergh Pushed Anti-Semitic Conspiracies To Keep America From Fighting Hitler​

Charles Lindbergh was an American hero after his historic solo flight across the Atlantic — then he wrecked his legacy through bigotry and associations with Nazis.

allthatsinteresting.com


what I say kieap~xxxiii … The same exact message from a Putin Fascist Toady Republican:

shockedcanadian ~00005~ said: “let the E.U handle this war”

whvt 250301 kieap00033

Shut up you fucking troll.

If you can't stay on topic GO AWAY.

 

[Moonglow]

Thinking Russia is an imperialist power intent on restoring the Soviet empire, is so typically the thinking of a dumb American. There is no evidence of this, but many Americans believe it. Proof again, state controlled media propaganda works well on some.

I doubt the state of Missouri controls the media
Cause I listen to hard rock only.Russia has invaded several countries next to them and lost, that is their failed empire.

 

[mamooth]

How many countries has Russia invaded, how many regimes toppled, and replaced in the last 50 years? Cool! Now do the United States. Don't worry. We'll wait...

Tankies work so hard to excuse Russian imperialism.

 

[mamooth]

Who’s invaded more countries in the past 20-30 years the US or Russia?

Russia.

The US only has Iraq and Afghanistan on the list. Russia has more. Just recently, we've seen Syria, Transnitria/Moldava, Georgia, Chechnya, Belarus.

Go back a little more, we can add Afghanistan, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.

Russia's record is worse than the US record. And the US hasn't done it since invading Iraq, while Russia's imperialism has accelerated recently.

 

[Dekster]

On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory. On another side, we have many liberals accusing Trump of siding with Putin and selling out Ukraine because he is not agreeing to all of Zelensky's terms. Could a realistic, fair assessment be somewhere between these two extremes?

A unilateral U.S. guarantee of Ukraine's security would be virtually de facto NATO membership. It would obligate us to go to war with Russia if Russia invaded Ukraine again. Any future U.S. military intervention in Ukraine would require us to use some NATO nations as staging areas, just as we're doing now only more so. A NATO guarantee of Ukraine's security would be de facto NATO membership. Putin fiercely rejects either option, especially the latter option, as do most average Russians.

Yet, one certainly cannot blame Zelensky for wanting some kind of credible security guarantee, given Putin's track record of violating agreements.

I am not comfortable with Trump's posturing on Ukraine, especially his idiotic statement that Ukraine started the war. However, I recognize this may be a negotiating tactic to allow Putin to save some face while denying him control of most/all of Ukraine. I certainly hope that's what it is. If Trump truly believes that Ukraine started the war, he is horribly misinformed and is peddling Russian propaganda.

I also recognize that there is strong pro-Russian sentiment in three of Ukraine's eastern provinces (Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk), and that a peace deal may need to include ceding some territory in those provinces.

A few days ago, Trump told England's prime minister that Putin was willing to agree to a European peacekeeping force in Ukraine as part of a peace deal. If that's true, that could be significant, depending on the size and duration of the peacekeeping force.

I want a peace deal that gives Ukraine long-term independence and that permanently halts Russian interference in Ukraine's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the three eastern provinces if doing so permanently ended Russian efforts to topple Ukraine and gave Ukraine long-term independence.

I think it is too early to be forming firm, final opinions about the Ukraine negotiations. We need details about the various peace-deal proposals. Let's see where the negotiations go and what the final terms end up being.

If Trump does end up selling out Ukraine, I will never cease to criticize him for doing so. I have dear friends in Ukraine. But, if Trump ends up preserving Ukraine's long-term independence and puts an end to Russian interference in Ukraine, I will gladly congratulate him for doing so.

It isn't a negotiation if Zelinsky isn't even at the table.

 

[petro]

The difference is that when Russia invades a country….they keep it

We look to establish an independent Democracy as soon as possible

Just like we started new democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq like we promised?

All those purple thumbs from voting in Afghanistan and all we did was hand it back to the Taliban after a million civilian deaths.

We look to install puppet regimes, that's it.

 

[Oddball]

Are you seriously, actually saying that America is as bad and predatory as Russia? Really? Seriously?

Never heard of the CIA, have you?

 

[Oddball]

The difference is that when Russia invades a country….they keep it

We look to establish an independent Democracy as soon as possible

Right....Just like the Bushies!