Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

[Couchpotato]

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Most of your list is before the USSR.

Chechnya is a republic of Russia, they arent an independent country.
Neither is Dagastan.

The Transnistria conflict was part of Moldovia breaking away from Moldovia. It's on the border between Ukraine and Moldovia.

So really it's Georgia, and Ukraine. We wont get into why the Russians invaded because I know from experience that talking about actual history and the causes of these conflicts is a dead end with people like you.

 

[Care4all]

Most of your list is before the USSR.

Chechnya is a republic of Russia, they arent an independent country.
Neither is Dagastan.

The Transnistria conflict was part of Moldovia breaking away from Moldovia. It's on the border between Ukraine and Moldovia.

So really it's Georgia, and Ukraine. We wont get into why the Russians invaded because I know from experience that talking about actual history and the causes of these conflicts is a dead end with people like you.

I have no problem discussing any of it, TRUTHFULLY.

 

[scruffy]

Sue who. China? Iran? North Korea?

Learn to speak English.

 

[Couchpotato]

I have no problem discussing any of it, TRUTHFULLY.

Ok so you are capitulating that the list you posted is BS minus Ukraine and Georgia as far as Russian invasion go?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I have no problem discussing any of it, TRUTHFULLY.

Is Russia occupying militarily any land inside of Ukraine‘s borders?. if they killed tens of thousands of Ukrainians to get there..

 

[Orangecat]

Nice visual representation of your post history.

 

[Couchpotato]

I have no problem discussing any of it, TRUTHFULLY.

Can you tell me why you believe the Russian/Ukraine war started. (please dont say because Russia invaded Ukraine).

 

[JoeB131]

On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory. On another side, we have many liberals accusing Trump of siding with Putin and selling out Ukraine because he is not agreeing to all of Zelensky's terms. Could a realistic, fair assessment be somewhere between these two extremes?

A unilateral U.S. guarantee of Ukraine's security would be virtually de facto NATO membership. It would obligate us to go to war with Russia if Russia invaded Ukraine again. Any future U.S. military intervention in Ukraine would require us to use some NATO nations as staging areas, just as we're doing now only more so. A NATO guarantee of Ukraine's security would be de facto NATO membership. Putin fiercely rejects either option, especially the latter option, as do most average Russians.

Here's the problem. We didn't have a treaty with Kuwait, but Saddam's invasion of Kuwait violated international law in that you don't annex other countries' territories. This has been the standard since the end of WW2. (you, know, that war where you think the Japs were misunderstood good guys!)

Furthermore, we promised Ukraine that we would protect her territorial integrity when she gave up the nukes that she inherited from the USSR in 1994.

I am not comfortable with Trump's posturing on Ukraine, especially his idiotic statement that Ukraine started the war. However, I recognize this may be a negotiating tactic to allow Putin to save some face while denying him control of most/all of Ukraine. I certainly hope that's what it is. If Trump truly believes that Ukraine started the war, he is horribly misinformed and is peddling Russian propaganda.

Why do all you bleach drinkers pretend that Trump is some genius playing four-dimensional chess?

Trump says idiotic things because he REALLY IS AN IDIOT!!!

I want a peace deal that gives Ukraine long-term independence and that permanently halts Russian interference in Ukraine's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the three eastern provinces if doing so permanently ended Russian efforts to topple Ukraine and gave Ukraine long-term independence.

"I want a peace deal that gives Czechoslovakia long-term independence and that permanently halts German interference in Czechoslovakia's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Czechoslovakia not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the Sudentenland if doing so permanently ended German efforts to topple Czechoslovakia and gave Czechoslovakia long-term independence." _ Neville Chamberlan (probably)

If Trump does end up selling out Ukraine, I will never cease to criticize him for doing so. I have dear friends in Ukraine. But, if Trump ends up preserving Ukraine's long-term independence and puts an end to Russian interference in Ukraine, I will gladly congratulate him for doing so.

Oh, bullshit. Like a good little cultist, you'll drink the bleach and claim this was a case of Three Dimensional Chess.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The Ukrainian ambassador doesn't agree with democrats. She is devastated by Zelensky's behavior.

Ukrainian ambassador’s mortified reaction to Zelensky’s Oval Office clash with Trump goes viral

The 48-year-old Ukrainian ambassador was on the radar of press cameras as Zelensky repeatedly looked her way over the course of the testy exchanges between the wartime leader and his US counterpart…

nypost.com

 

[Couchpotato]

Here's the problem. We didn't have a treaty with Kuwait, but Saddam's invasion of Kuwait violated international law in that you don't annex other countries' territories. This has been the standard since the end of WW2. (you, know, that war where you think the Japs were misunderstood good guys!)

So when we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan the world should have united against the US and fought a war over it. Right? What about when we over threw the Governments in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya and Ukraine?

 

[Lesh]

Trump is five steps ahead of you leftwingers. He appears tough on Zelensky and easy on Putin, but notice he isn't giving Russia anything. In the end, Trump will have achieved peace. He knows exactly what he's doing. This is why he is the top negotiator in the world. It's why he was elected president three times despite a hostile media.

He’s giving Putin UKRAINE

You dolt

 

[Lesh]

Can you tell me why you believe the Russian/Ukraine war started. (please dont say because Russia invaded Ukraine).

Why? That is the cause

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Are you seriously, actually saying that America is as bad and predatory as Russia? Really? Seriously?

No, but what he said isn't false. We're responsible for the present day regime in Iran. We invaded Iraq under false pretense and took out the leader, who was admittedly a shit bag, but kept the country stable. For decades we've propped up dictators people didn't want in order to have someone in place to do our bidding and it's backfired over and over.

 

[Rawley]

I am glad my Republican senator in Congress , Don Bacon said , " A bad day for America's foreign Policy. Ukraine wants independence , free markets and rule of law. It wants to be part of the West. Russia hates Us and our Western values. We should be clear that we stand for freedom. " That is strong criticism of trump coming from a republican. More importantly he is absolutely correct. We have the wrong president leading our nation to ruin , isolation and destruction.

So what was Senator Bacon's plan to end the war, drive the Russians out of Crimea and Ukraine and guarantee the Ukrainians that they will never be invaded again?

 

[Couchpotato]

Why? That is the cause

Oh honey. who do you think you're fooling? You have no interest in having an actual honest and substantive conversation with anyone on this topic. Dont act like you are.

 

[gipper]

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Can you compare and contrast with the actions by the USG since 1918? Or do you ignore that because it is the indispensable nation, allowed to do whatever its corrupt leaders desire?

 

[JoeB131]

So when we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan the world should have united against the US and fought a war over it. Right? What about when we over threw the Governments in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya and Ukraine?

Not really comparable.

The invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq both happened with UN sanction.

As for those other coups, almost all of them happened because people inside the countries involved were unhappy with their leadership.

 

[Couchpotato]

Not really comparable.

The invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq both happened with UN sanction.

As for those other coups, almost all of them happened because people inside the countries involved were unhappy with their leadership.

Bwahahahaa. So it was ok because we said. LOL

 

[JoeB131]

Bwahahahaa. So it was ok because we said. LOL

No, it was okay for the reasons I pointed out, which you clearly didn't have the intellect to understand.

Go find someone to explain the big words to you.

 

[Delldude]

The invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq both happened with UN sanction.

No it didn't.