Leaving Iraq was Bush plan, according to Odierno, but US may have to embed US units with Iraqi units

[JakeStarkey]

Then we should be very careful to avoid killing civilians, hm.

 

[blackhawk]

The following "Obama who was more than happy to go along with that" is horse shit, because Obama would have signed a SOFA that would prevent Iraqis from trying our soldiers in their courts, which is what blackhawk, the jihadist supporter, apparently wants.

Fake jake that is when you use leadership to work around that. Interesting that the man you and the other far lefties love to call a dope and an idiot was able to do that but not the smartest man in the room Obama.

 

[bendog]

The following "Obama who was more than happy to go along with that" is horse shit, because Obama would have signed a SOFA that would prevent Iraqis from trying our soldiers in their courts, which is what blackhawk, the jihadist supporter, apparently wants.

Sorry, but I think Obama got just what he wanted when All-ah-mucky's parliament wouldn't pass the immunity provision. I put up a link that Obama has now put in troops WITHOUT the parliament signing off. I don't necessarily thing Obama was wrong to want the troops home. (I'd rather he not redeployed any to Afghan, but that's another matter.)

W bought the neocon fantasy of the Iraqis singing Kumbayah by the fire. They hate each other. Possibly, had we squandered another trillion or so, and stayed for a few decades, we may have changed hearts and minds, but Americans weren't interested in paying for that. The simple fact was that without the Baath party, or the monarchy that preceded it, or some other non-democratic strong man that controlled the army, Iraq was going to self-partition. Assad is a bad person, but he may not be the worst option ... and possibly so was Saddam.

In all the bs about ISIS, nobody anywhere is actually discussing WTF do we intend to do with all the Sunnis. And how does the House of Saud feel about that.

 

[healthmyths]

Then we should be very careful to avoid killing civilians, hm.

Right.... Kinda like this plastic card given to our troops???

YOU CAN'T defeat the enemy if YOU continue to handicap the US soldier!
A laminated card with the following text was distributed to all U.S. Army and Marine personnel in Iraq.
Policies about limiting civilian casualties have soldiers complaining they can't effectively fight; one showed author Michael Hastings a card with regulations including "Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force."
For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch.
In Afghanistan a New General -- But An Old Strategy - CBS News

I bet you were against the 100,000 Japanese killed by the atom bombs .... even though bombs saved over 1 million American/Japanese lives if an invasion occurred.

You just don't constantly tear our country down as people of your ilk are prone to do without helping the bad guys.
Doesn't help any one. Just adds to the deaths.
Remember there were over 1.5 million soldiers in Iraq but just 11 idiots were responsible for Abu Ghraib yet what has been the #1 reason for ISIS justifications???
Millions of pictures showing what 11 idiots did... and people like you still don't comprehend what the distinction is between the exception and the rule!

 

[JakeStarkey]

The following "Obama who was more than happy to go along with that" is horse shit, because Obama would have signed a SOFA that would prevent Iraqis from trying our soldiers in their courts, which is what blackhawk, the jihadist supporter, apparently wants.

Fake jake that is when you use leadership to work around that. Interesting that the man you and the other far lefties love to call a dope and an idiot was able to do that but not the smartest man in the room Obama.

The Iraqi leader said no SOFA without Iraqi jurisdiction over American soldiers. That could not be worked around. You are blaming Obama for what Bush and the Iraqi leadership created. Fail.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then we should be very careful to avoid killing civilians, hm.

Right.... Kinda like this plastic card given to our troops???

YOU CAN'T defeat the enemy if YOU continue to handicap the US soldier!
A laminated card with the following text was distributed to all U.S. Army and Marine personnel in Iraq.
Policies about limiting civilian casualties have soldiers complaining they can't effectively fight; one showed author Michael Hastings a card with regulations including "Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force."
For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch.
In Afghanistan a New General -- But An Old Strategy - CBS News

I bet you were against the 100,000 Japanese killed by the atom bombs .... even though bombs saved over 1 million American/Japanese lives if an invasion occurred.

You just don't constantly tear our country down as people of your ilk are prone to do without helping the bad guys.
Doesn't help any one. Just adds to the deaths.
Remember there were over 1.5 million soldiers in Iraq but just 11 idiots were responsible for Abu Ghraib yet what has been the #1 reason for ISIS justifications???
Millions of pictures showing what 11 idiots did... and people like you still don't comprehend what the distinction is between the exception and the rule!

I bet if we followed your instincts America would be ruled by Albania.

I support the decision to bomb Japan. My dad and step dad were in the scheduled invasion ground forces, and I believe we might not have made a beach head much less carried out the schedule..

 

[blackhawk]

The following "Obama who was more than happy to go along with that" is horse shit, because Obama would have signed a SOFA that would prevent Iraqis from trying our soldiers in their courts, which is what blackhawk, the jihadist supporter, apparently wants.

Fake jake that is when you use leadership to work around that. Interesting that the man you and the other far lefties love to call a dope and an idiot was able to do that but not the smartest man in the room Obama.

The Iraqi leader said no SOFA without Iraqi jurisdiction over American soldiers. That could not be worked around. You are blaming Obama for what Bush and the Iraqi leadership created. Fail.

I'm blaming Obama for what he failed to do listen to the speeches and comments of candidate Obama in 2008 he made it very clear if he was elected he would pull the troops out of Iraq. If the Iraqi government had dropped that demand Obama would have found another reason not to reach an extension agreement anyone who is being honest knows this.

 

[2aguy]

AUGUST 12, 2015 BY MARCUS WEISGERBER Odierno Wades Into GOP War Over Iraq War - Defense One

// If Iraqi soldiers don’t make progress in the coming months, the Pentagon should recommend embedding troops on the battlefield, says Gen. Raymond Odierno, the outgoing Army chief of staff.

Gen. Ray Odierno, the U.S. Army’s top officer, pushed back on the Iraq War blame game that has dominated the GOP 2016 presidential campaign trail, saying that the U.S.military’s withdrawal from Iraq in 2011 was the Bush administration’s plan all along. Odierno, formerly the senior U.S. general in Iraq, said he was unconvinced at the time that the Iraqi parliament would have approved a longer stay for American troops had Obama administration officials successfully negotiated for it. //

Yeah...but when you see that you are going to have to stay...you stay until the situation is stable...Obama didn't do that did he.........he pulled the troops out without regard to what was actually happening over there...so again...the current mess is all Obama........and when we have spent the lives freeing their country, they have little say in when we leave, especially when they are all corrupt assholes....Obama wanted out and he pulled the troops,out, now we have to deal with Isis...

 

[2aguy]

We're still in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The number of troops are quietly increasing in both countries. Americans are just so damn dumbed-down. Too much Government/Corporate Media. They really don't know better. We're not leaving either country until we've sufficiently raped & plundered. It is what it is.

Ah, but our troops in Iraq are no longer there to keep the sunnis and shia apart. Iran's running the shia and we're running the kurds, and the sunni are either signing up for ISIS or being killed by them. But Jeb still thinks invading was a good idea.

Jeb has said the invasion was the wrong decision.

and Jen isn't going to win the nomination....cause he is a "reach across the aisle" fool with no fight in him...

 

[JakeStarkey]

The following "Obama who was more than happy to go along with that" is horse shit, because Obama would have signed a SOFA that would prevent Iraqis from trying our soldiers in their courts, which is what blackhawk, the jihadist supporter, apparently wants.

Fake jake that is when you use leadership to work around that. Interesting that the man you and the other far lefties love to call a dope and an idiot was able to do that but not the smartest man in the room Obama.

The Iraqi leader said no SOFA without Iraqi jurisdiction over American soldiers. That could not be worked around. You are blaming Obama for what Bush and the Iraqi leadership created. Fail.

I'm blaming Obama for what he failed to do listen to the speeches and comments of candidate Obama in 2008 he made it very clear if he was elected he would pull the troops out of Iraq. If the Iraqi government had dropped that demand Obama would have found another reason not to reach an extension agreement anyone who is being honest knows this.

Not at all. Your argument is inaccurate and easily discarded. The American people will not support another American army in Iraq. The president will have a hard time to embed any units with the Iraqis.

 

[bendog]

This may be a pretty good synopsis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/w...oops-would-have-to-leave.html?ref=topics&_r=0

But, imo, really nothing we did, or could have done, made any difference .... after W made the decision to remove Saddam and "stage free elections." And frankly the Surge didn't do jack shite. We paid the Sunni to stop killing our guys, and the Shia completed their campaign of pushing the Sunni out of integrated areas. And the Kurds never accepted the Shia govt,.

 

[blackhawk]

The following "Obama who was more than happy to go along with that" is horse shit, because Obama would have signed a SOFA that would prevent Iraqis from trying our soldiers in their courts, which is what blackhawk, the jihadist supporter, apparently wants.

Fake jake that is when you use leadership to work around that. Interesting that the man you and the other far lefties love to call a dope and an idiot was able to do that but not the smartest man in the room Obama.

The Iraqi leader said no SOFA without Iraqi jurisdiction over American soldiers. That could not be worked around. You are blaming Obama for what Bush and the Iraqi leadership created. Fail.

I'm blaming Obama for what he failed to do listen to the speeches and comments of candidate Obama in 2008 he made it very clear if he was elected he would pull the troops out of Iraq. If the Iraqi government had dropped that demand Obama would have found another reason not to reach an extension agreement anyone who is being honest knows this.

Not at all. Your argument is inaccurate and easily discarded. The American people will not support another American army in Iraq. The president will have a hard time to embed any units with the Iraqis.

Who said anything about putting another American army in Iraq? We were discussing the SOFA extension which would have keep a specific number of troops who were already in Iraq there. By the way don't we have about 3000 troops in Iraq right now?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You were discussing it, blackhawk, the rest of us are discussing Odierno saying it was Bush's plan to get us out of Iraq.

He says now that we may have to embed units with the Iraqis, and I don't think the American people will tolerate that.

 

[bendog]

You were discussing it, blackhawk, the rest of were discussing Odierno saying it was Bush's plan to get us out of Iraq.

He says now that we may have to embed units with the Iraqis, and I don't think the American people will tolerate that.

And it's not really Iraqi troops. The Iranians are already embedded in the "army." We're supporting the kurds with military advisors, and bombing for both them and the Iranians. And, yes, I meant IRANIANS.

 

[healthmyths]

This may be a pretty good synopsis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/w...oops-would-have-to-leave.html?ref=topics&_r=0

But, imo, really nothing we did, or could have done, made any difference .... after W made the decision to remove Saddam and "stage free elections." And frankly the Surge didn't do jack shite. We paid the Sunni to stop killing our guys, and the Shia completed their campaign of pushing the Sunni out of integrated areas. And the Kurds never accepted the Shia govt,.

So you believe like these people including Reid that this hasn't happened:
A) When Saddam was removed in 2003 per capita GDP was $637

B) After Saddam removed, i.e. Surge,etc.... $5,790 in 2013. An increase of over 900% over 10 years.
Gross Domestic Product GDP in Iraq 1970-2013

So please explain how a "jack shite" Surge didn't work? At least the economy is a lot better would you not agree?

Plus tell me would you have been happy to see over 1.2 million children starve from 2003 to 2015 as the would have if Saddam were still alive?

 

[bendog]

It has been a stunning success. The surge united that Republic like non-other in the region.

 

[BlindBoo]

Further, the Bush Administration left it open after the end of their term so that their successor could reup the agreement.

Wrong. The only thing open in the agreement was that Iraq could ask us to leave at any time and we could decide to leave at any time. There was nothing in the agreement that dictated any future negotiations.

 

[BlindBoo]

Why would you make a deal in 2008 that agreed to pull out all our troops by 2011 if you expected troops not to pull out of Iraq by 2011? Once you put such an agreement to pull out our troops in place, you hamstring the next President if he wants to keep troops there. An agreement in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Condi Rice's story doesn't hold water.

Bush had to make a deal by the end of 2008 or else he would have had to remove the troops by the end of 2008.

 

[healthmyths]

It has been a stunning success. The surge united that Republic like non-other in the region.

So you believe like these people including Reid that this hasn't happened:
A) Under Saddam Per person GDP when Saddam was removed in 2003 per capita GDP never rose above $637

B) After Saddam removed, i.e. Surge,etc.... $5,790.US dollars in 2013. an increase of over 900% over 10 years.
Gross Domestic Product GDP in Iraq 1970-2013

In various surveys, as many as three out of four Iraqis agree that Hussein's removal was worth it despite the hardships, with only a quarter preferring the way things were in prewar Iraq.
But the left-wing cliche of the war as American slaughter of Iraqis is simply wrong. Nearly 90 percent of the post-invasion Iraqi casualties have been at the hands of fellow Iraqis, in sectarian or insurgent violence, according to an analysis by King's College London. And, whatever the failings of U.S. military justice, Iraqis mistreated by American soldiers had a vastly better chance at protection and redress than Iraqis terrorized by Hussein's henchmen.
Iraqis are better off without Saddam Hussein - Cathy Young Newsday

"I'm happy to see the dictator removed and … no longer persecuting millions of Iraqi people. And I'm happy to see a democratic process in Iraq, in which free elections were held … for the first time."

But at the same time, "Iraq is still struggling and has not achieved full-fledged peace," he said.

Still, Iraqis now have rights like free speech, assembly and travel that were unthinkable a decade ago.

Baker Al-Bajj, 48, of Dearborn was in Iraq a month ago and said that there are still major political divisions.

"But even with all the problems, it was worth it to get rid of Saddam," he said from the Karbalaa Center. "People have the freedom to speak out, to protest, to travel, to go out of the country. Ten years ago, the country was locked up. You were afraid to talk even among their own families."

After services Friday at the Karbalaa Center, a group of Iraqi-American men shared their stories of suffering under Saddam. One man's brother was killed in 1980; another said four of his relatives were killed, and a third said his sister was killed in 2006 by remnants of the regime. They said the war was justified.

10 years later Iraqi Americans feel gratitude regret

 

[paulitician]

We're still in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The number of troops are quietly increasing in both countries. Americans are just so damn dumbed-down. Too much Government/Corporate Media. They really don't know better. We're not leaving either country until we've sufficiently raped & pillaged. It is what it is.

Why do we have approximately 65,000 stationed in Europe and approximately 80,000 in East Asia 70 years after WWII?

Permanent War. That's why. It's what the Globalist Elites want.

Sorry but you are really ignorant. Right after WWII our administration "BELIEVED" military leaders, who all studied military history and through military history
conquering armies "occupied defeated enemies' countries". These are age old rules based on experience. So we kept troops in these conquered countries.
NOW UNLIKE other conquering armies though the ALLIES Helped rebuild destroyed countries...ever heard of the "Marshall Plan"????

The Marshall Plan (officially the European Recovery Program, ERP) was an American initiative to aid Europe, in which the United States gave $13 billion(approximately $120 billion in current dollar value) in economic support to help rebuild European economies after the end of World War II.

So GWB listened to his military tried to negotiate the Status of Forces Agreement which Obama because HE promised all troops out of Iraq never completed in good faith.
Obama keeping a political promise instead of securing the ME has made it more dangerous for all of us by ignorantly and naively making that stupid promise.

But what could our military expect (they have less then 15% confidence in their C-I-C..
Military Times: Mere 15 Percent of Troops Approve of Obama
Military Times Mere 15 Percent of Troops Approve of Obama
And why should they? After all Obama told the world our military was "air-raiding villages killing civilians".... a statement used by terrorists to justify killing American troops!

Sadly, soldiers work for evil Globalist Elites. They do what they're told. It's all about plundering foreign resources. We're not in these countries because we think they're real swell folks. We're there to plunder as much of their resources as possible.

That's why we're in this state of Permanent War. It's all about making rich Globalist Elites richer. I actually feel for our soldiers. They die for nothing.

Now with YOUR comments about the "EVIL" United States you are showing why the terrorists are doing what they are doing.
You really believe that crap is that? Then why are you living in such a terrible evil country? Why don't you go to a more "civilized" less evil country?

Your writings and comments truly feed the people that are beheading people with perceptions just as Obama fed the terrorists when he said our
military is "air-raiding villages,killing civilians"... These words while you and Obama think are "honest" are also helpful to the truly bad guys.

Sorry, but it would be fair to say the U.S. is the most deadly Terrorist State on earth. No other nation invades, slaughters, and pillages more than the U.S. You've been brainwashed by the American Government/Corporate Media into thinking America is always the 'Good Guy.' But guess what, it isn't.

The U.S. commits all sorts of horrific crimes all over the world. It's often the Bad Guy. I know it's hard to accept that, but it is the reality. Always remember, might makes right. That's the U.S. at this point.